Is Dominique Rodger-Cromartie Worth the #7 Pick?

[ctpatsfan77]

I want the Pats to do whatever they can to land Ro-Cromartie. If it's #7, I will be jumping around my living room like a kangaroo in glee, if they trade down a few spots and he's still there and we take him, fine, however, whatever they have to do to get this stud, I don't care.

This guy can return kicks, return punts and will be the next Deion Sanders. Mark my words on that, he will be the next Deion Sanders, a virtual TD waiting to happen. Just like when A-Cromartie picks a ball like he did in the Colts game. The fans crapped their drawers because they knew when he got out in the open field it was 6, and sure enough it was.

Do you know how Chargers fans feel about Antonio? Well that is going to be us if we take this guy. Please BB take this stud, I'm begging you. He not only solves our #1 CB issue, he solves our KR issue. Two issues resolved with one pick.

If he's as good as you say, then if the Pats can get him at, say #13 or #14 and pick up an extra second, that should have you jumping with glee.

Seriously, though, what the Pats do with #7 will be one of the big questions between now and the draft.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Patriots won't be picking at #7 so the question is moot.

 

[VJCPatriot]

If he's as good as you say, then if the Pats can get him at, say #13 or #14 and pick up an extra second, that should have you jumping with glee.

Seriously, though, what the Pats do with #7 will be one of the big questions between now and the draft.

Well I think the money saved will be quite useful. If we have to settle for McKelvin instead of DRC at a pick in the early teens, is that really so bad?

 

[DaedalusX]

Show me how to gain 20 pounds of muscle. I guess it's pretty easy

I've done it. Any strength and body-building routine followed strictly can help you do it. It's less than a pound a week. 6 months is plenty of time to put on 20 pounds of muscle. Hell, read LL Cool J's book. He did it in 21 weeks, WHILE lowering his body fat % too.

For the record, his is the same plan I used.

 

[DaedalusX]

If he adds 20 lbs. of muscle this offseason, he will be discovered in a steroid or HGH test. You can't just magically add 20 lbs. of muscle in a few short months (especially if you're alreadu a rippling ball of muscle like most pro athletes), sorry. Worse, adding 20 lbs. would take away Cromartie's best attribute, which is his blinding speed.

This is demonstrably false and spoken like someone who has never read let alone done a professional strength/bulking/cutting/stamina routine in his life.

He's a super athlete but so was Andre Woolfolk a few years ago, and now where is he? Out of the game completely four years later. He's a track star playing football and a workout warrior, not a Belichick player.

And Randy Moss is "a basketball player playing football" and "too frail to go over the middle", right? Please. Tom Brady was a 6th round pick who couldn't run to save his life.

Poor college production at a low level of competition with exciting measurables... find me a previous Patriots 1st rounder that exhibits those traits. One good game at the Senior Bowl does not make up for a mediocre college career.

See: Tom Brady.

The Patriots are more likely to trade down if they want defensive backs (though I want Quentin Groves) and look at a guy like Cason, who's a Belichick player through and through.

A Belichick player is one that fits into the system, has the athletic talent to be great if coached well. Not all coaching is equal, but if Belichick can pull it off, then it's worth the investment. Ridiculous performance in speed, vertical leap and strength are huge bonuses on top.

 

[DaedalusX]

Not sure if this has been posted before, but the Pats have already expressed some interest in him, per Reiss:

Rodgers-Cromartie said that he has met with the Patriots and that it went well, even though the team put him on the spot.

"They were the first team that made me draw something up with them, do something like that. It threw me off-guard a little bit," said Rodgers-Cromartie. "I was expecting to answer personal questions like everybody else was asking me and then you get 'Draw a defense up for me' and it threw me off guard."

I'm excited.

 

[dryheat44]

I've done it. Any strength and body-building routine followed strictly can help you do it. It's less than a pound a week. 6 months is plenty of time to put on 20 pounds of muscle. Hell, read LL Cool J's book. He did it in 21 weeks, WHILE lowering his body fat % too.

For the record, his is the same plan I used.

Sure...when you start out from 0, dividends come quick.

I have to believe that DRC has been in a weight training program for at least his college career, if not HS.

As for the question is he worth the pick? I don't know. And nobody else here does either, unless that person happens to make a habit of watching Tennessee St. games. I'll tell you what I do know:

At the beginning of the season, his name was Dominique Rodgers, and he was not regarded as an NFL prospect. Nobody had heard of him until January. He added the -Cromartie, made it known he was related to Antonio Cromartie, had some great workouts, and now he's a first-round pick? Come on. Some of you "scouts" have gone about three miles past ridiculous. Quotes from this thread:

This guy could be the next Cromartie Tecnically he already is. As far as being the next great NFL cornerback, there's absolutely nothing in on-field performance to suggest he will be. Could he be? Sure. So could Jenkins, McKelvin, Porter, Cason, Godfrey, etc.

...he's going to be on-par with Cromartie at CB. Why would you say that? It's a f@cking guess. Hey....Joe Flacco is going to be on-par with Brady at QB!

This guy can return kicks, return punts and will be the next Deion Sanders. Mark my words on that, he will be the next Deion Sanders, a virtual TD waiting to happen. Yes..of course. A guy who played at Division 2 is compared to the best cover corner to play. Makes sense.

He is a pure-bread if I've ever seen one, just like Deion. Damn...didn't Jimmy the Greek get fired for a similar comment? You don't know what you're talking about. Deion played for a high-profile team, and was nearly flawless against some of the best WRs in the nation. DRC doesn't have Deion's speed, his agility, and more importantly, not his on-field body of work.

This guy is destined for greatness. He's an Antonio Cromartie/Deion Sanders ball of clay that has been molded, mixed together and formed. Destined? What's next, coronated? Some guy that you've almost certainly never seen play before the senior bowl (where quarterbacks are playing in an unfamiliar offense with unfamiliar receivers) is the combination of the greatest cover corner to play in the modern NFL and another good one who's had one great year and happens to be his cousin. Makes sense. Can you even explain this? What reminds you of Deion? What reminds you of Antonio? Or if DRC was a quarterback, would he be a combination of Joe Montana and Peyton Manning? Or a combination of Jim Brown and Walter Payton if he were a running back?

He not only solves our #1 CB issue.... Of course. A guy's going to come out of D2 and be a #1 cornerback in the NFL as a rookie. Makes sense.

he could be the guy to shut down guys like TO, Burress (Moss? ). At 6'2 and his leaping ability and track star qualities he could be that true shut down corner PATs
have never had. Yes. DRC couldn't shut down D2 receivers, but he'll come in to the NFL and neutralize all-star wideouts. Track star qualities? What? He's fast through 40 yards, that's great, but he doesn't have track-star speed, nor is it important that he do. The Patriots had Mike Haynes. He was a shut-down corner. I don't think there is a shut-down corner in the NFL today...the rules don't allow it. Everybody gets beat regularly...Bailey, Cromartie, Samuel, Mathis, or any other CBs name you wish to add.

Come on guys, put away your erections. This man-love for DRC is beyond ridiculous. It's harder to imagine a riskier pick for a high first round choice.

My sister was an Olympic medalist in swimming. I can swim to save my life, and that's about it. I wish the National swimming league would sign me to a huge contract based on the laps I swam at the local YMCA.

 

[BradyToMoss]

Sure...when you start out from 0, dividends come quick.

I have to believe that DRC has been in a weight training program for at least his college career, if not HS.

As for the question is he worth the pick? I don't know. And nobody else here does either, unless that person happens to make a habit of watching Tennessee St. games. I'll tell you what I do know:

At the beginning of the season, his name was Dominique Rodgers, and he was not regarded as an NFL prospect. Nobody had heard of him until January. He added the -Cromartie, made it known he was related to Antonio Cromartie, had some great workouts, and now he's a first-round pick? Come on. Some of you "scouts" have gone about three miles past ridiculous. Quotes from this thread:

This guy could be the next Cromartie Tecnically he already is. As far as being the next great NFL cornerback, there's absolutely nothing in on-field performance to suggest he will be. Could he be? Sure. So could Jenkins, McKelvin, Porter, Cason, Godfrey, etc.

...he's going to be on-par with Cromartie at CB. Why would you say that? It's a f@cking guess. Hey....Joe Flacco is going to be on-par with Brady at QB!

This guy can return kicks, return punts and will be the next Deion Sanders. Mark my words on that, he will be the next Deion Sanders, a virtual TD waiting to happen. Yes..of course. A guy who played at Division 2 is compared to the best cover corner to play. Makes sense.

He is a pure-bread if I've ever seen one, just like Deion. Damn...didn't Jimmy the Greek get fired for a similar comment? You don't know what you're talking about. Deion played for a high-profile team, and was nearly flawless against some of the best WRs in the nation. DRC doesn't have Deion's speed, his agility, and more importantly, not his on-field body of work.

This guy is destined for greatness. He's an Antonio Cromartie/Deion Sanders ball of clay that has been molded, mixed together and formed. Destined? What's next, coronated? Some guy that you've almost certainly never seen play before the senior bowl (where quarterbacks are playing in an unfamiliar offense with unfamiliar receivers) is the combination of the greatest cover corner to play in the modern NFL and another good one who's had one great year and happens to be his cousin. Makes sense.

He not only solves our #1 CB issue.... Of course. A guy's going to come out of D2 and be a #1 cornerback in the NFL as a rookie. Makes sense.

he could be the guy to shut down guys like TO, Burress (Moss? ). At 6'2 and his leaping ability and track star qualities he could be that true shut down corner PATs
have never had. Yes. DRC couldn't shut down D2 receivers, but he'll come in to the NFL and neutralize all-star wideouts. Track star qualities? What? He's fast through 40 yards, that's great, but he doesn't have track-star speed, nor is it important that he do. The Patriots had Mike Haynes. He was a shut-down corner. I don't think there is a shut-down corner in the NFL today...the rules don't allow it. Everybody gets beat regularly...Bailey, Cromartie, Samuel, Mathis, or any other CBs name you wish to add.

Come on guys, put away your erections. This man-love for DRC is beyond ridiculous. It's harder to imagine a riskier pick for a high first round choice.

My sister was an Olympic medalist in swimming. I can swim to save my life, and that's about it. I wish the National swimming league would sign me to a huge contract because of the laps I swam at the local YMCA.

OK Dryheat, if you're such a draft-maven, guru, talent evaluator, then why don't you explain to all of us why DRC after his dominating Senior Bowl and Combine is now projected by most all scouts and evaluators to be one of the top 2 corners in this draft with McKelvin? Why is Deion Sanders himself raving about the kid ? I guess all of these people don't know what they're talking about either. If you don't think DRC is going to be a stud in this league, I have to question anything you post.

 

[dryheat44]

OK Dryheat, if you're such a draft-maven, guru, talent evaluator, then why don't you explain to all of us why DRC after his dominating Senior Bowl and Combine is now projected by most all scouts and evaluators to be one of the top 2 corners in this draft with McKelvin? Why is Deion Sanders himself raving about the kid ? I guess all of these people don't know what they're talking about either. If you don't think DRC is going to be a stud in this league, I have to question anything you post.

Go ahead and question my posts, it's your right, and I don't care. Honestly, I stopped reading 90% of your posts because they all say they same thing. But there's a lot more evidence that says DRC won't be a stud in this league than there is that he will be. The question really is what makes you think that he WILL be? There's nothing except the senior bowl, where the cornerbacks always have the advantage over receivers, and a Scouting Combine.

I'm sorry, nothing trumps on-field competition. Scouts and Evaluators are susceptible to the same buzz and paranoia that fans are. Plus they pretty much copy each other anyway. All it takes is one to start a huge PR campaign, and the rest pick it up. Deion loves the kids athleticism. Every year a few guys "remind him of him". I can pretty much guarantee Deion hasn't looked at one game tape of Tennessee St.

The Pats are in desparate need of a CB. I hope they draft one and he becomes an All-Pro, regardless who it is. However, the fact remains that DRC is a workout wonder who's enjoying a meteoric rise, and is a very risky player to take high in the first round.

 

[bradmahn]

OK Dryheat, if you're such a draft-maven, guru, talent evaluator, then why don't you explain to all of us why DRC after his dominating Senior Bowl and Combine is now projected by most all scouts and evaluators to be one of the top 2 corners in this draft with McKelvin? Why is Deion Sanders himself raving about the kid ? I guess all of these people don't know what they're talking about either. If you don't think DRC is going to be a stud in this league, I have to question anything you post.

Regardless of which hand you hold your Cromartie erection in, that last quote is ignorant.

So, because he doesn't have the same unwavering confidence in an unproven prospect from D II, you now have to question anything he posts? Smart and rational.

How about this? on field play means more in evaluating a player than drills in shorts or in all-star games against offenses playing together for the first time.

 

[BradyToMoss]

Go ahead and question my posts, it's your right, and I don't care. Honestly, I stopped reading 90% of your posts because they all say they same thing. But there's a lot more evidence that says DRC won't be a stud in this league than there is that he will be. The question really is what makes you think that he WILL be? There's nothing except the senior bowl, where the cornerbacks always have the advantage over receivers, and a Scouting Combine.

I'm sorry, nothing trumps on-field competition. Scouts and Evaluators are susceptible to the same buzz and paranoia that fans are. Plus they pretty much copy each other anyway. All it takes is one to start a huge PR campaign, and the rest pick it up. Deion loves the kids athleticism. Every year a few guys "remind him of him". I can pretty much guarantee Deion hasn't looked at one game tape of Tennessee St.

The Pats are in desparate need of a CB. I hope they draft one and he becomes an All-Pro, regardless who it is. However, the fact remains that DRC is a workout wonder who's enjoying a meteoric rise, and is a very risky player to take high in the first round.

Fair enough DryHeat, no harsh feelings. I just think personally that you are making the mistake of ignoring this kid's abilities simply because of the school he played at and the fact that he wasn't more dominant and noticeable in his earlier years.

For one thing, DRC jumped around alot in high school. His father lives up in NC and his mother down in Bradenton, FL. He started his high school years with his dad, then moved to his mother's in FL late. He was in 4 different high schools in 4 years which kept the D1 scouts away from him, which is why he had to settle for the top D2 school in the country.

This kid is a classic late-bloomer. He showed everyone at the Senior bowl what he can do, both him and Ellis were the 2 most dominating players in that game against the top seniors in the country. That speaks for something. He followed this up by dominating his DB competition at the combine, that also speaks for something. I don't overlook these things. The kid has proved himself against the top college players, so I would throw the small school Tennessee State argument out the window. My opinion is that he'll be the 1st corner off the board in April and the team that gets him will be happy it did and I'm hoping that team is our beloved Patriots.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

This kid is a classic late-bloomer. He showed everyone at the Senior bowl what he can do, both him and Ellis were the 2 most dominating players in that game against the top seniors in the country. That speaks for something. He followed this up by dominating his DB competition at the combine, that also speaks for something. I don't overlook these things. The kid has proved himself against the top college players, so I would throw the small school Tennessee State argument out the window. My opinion is that he'll be the 1st corner off the board in April and the team that gets him will be happy it did and I'm hoping that team is our beloved Patriots.

Two things here are points for concern--they're not absolute disqualifiers, but they're things that need to be considered:

(1) Combine tests are important, but BB/SP have shown that's not all they consider. They're also not tests of actual performance on game day.
(2) He proved himself in one game against DI receivers, not a full career. Maybe that was the best day he'll ever have, maybe not. But obviously, there is a risk here. OTOH, the Patriots are not averse to taking risks, but only when they think the upside balances/outweighs that risk. So the question isn't "Why should/n't the Pats take him?" so much as "Do the Pats think his upside is worth the risk inherent in drafting him at #X?"

 

[primetime]

This is demonstrably false and spoken like someone who has never read let alone done a professional strength/bulking/cutting/stamina routine in his life.

See: Tom Brady.

It's not demonstrably false. Putting on 20 lbs. of muscle in an offseason is next to impossible and would require illegal supplementation. It also would change his body structure and cause him to lose his athleticism, which is his best trait. I don't care how LL Cool J taught you to bulk up. Cromartie likely already has very low body fat and it would be nearly impossible for him to gain that much weight because of his structural makeup.

As for Tom Brady, Brady played at Michigan (which, last I looked, is somewhat well-known for football). Brady was a 6th round pick, not a 7th OVERALL pick. Brady also had good college production and poor measurables. In fact, Brady may be the absolute worst guy to point to because he's basically the exact opposite of Cromartie: lacking athletic measurables, playing at a big school, being productive against top competition, and a late round pick. The fact that you're comparing Cromartie to Brady (aside from the fact it's comparing a guy who hasn't been drafted yet to one of the greatest players of all-time) when that argument makes no sense means you should probably re-evaluate your debating skills.

 

[DaedalusX]

It's not demonstrably false. Putting on 20 lbs. of muscle in an offseason is next to impossible and would require illegal supplementation.

No, you're wrong. And until you can demonstrate otherwise, the burden of proof is on you. Actors, body builders, athletes, etc., have ALL demonstrated that you can put on muscle relatively fast if it's your goal. Just because his BMR is probably off the charts and he's likely an ectomorph doesn't mean he can't do it. It just means he needs to plan his diet out and eat a lot more than he probably is.

It also would change his body structure and cause him to lose his athleticism, which is his best trait.

Evidence that other athletes have managed to have more muscle and similar athleticism to what he has now, including his cousin, shows your statement to be based on a false assumption.

I don't care how LL Cool J taught you to bulk up.

Well you should because he was trained by Dave Honig and cowrote the book with him as well as Jeff O'Connell, executive writer for Men’s Health. Last I checked, you don't have any claim to fame or credentials in this realm.

Cromartie likely already has very low body fat and it would be nearly impossible for him to gain that much weight because of his structural makeup.

His structural makeup + 20 lbs would be the same as his Cousin and similar to other shutdown cornerbacks.

[Edit: Forget the last part, it's too moronic to even discuss]

 

[Seneschal2]

OK Dryheat, if you're such a draft-maven, guru, talent evaluator, then why don't you explain to all of us why DRC after his dominating Senior Bowl and Combine is now projected by most all scouts and evaluators to be one of the top 2 corners in this draft with McKelvin?

I'm not Dryheat but allow me to answer.

Every draft, someone has to be ranked first, second, etc. at their respective positions. And every draft, someone rises (like DRC). In this draft, McKelvin, Jenkins, and DRC have all been mocked to the Pats at #7. Why? Because the CB position was known to be a glaring need for the Pats (the anticipated Samuel departure), so why not mock one of those three to the Pats. Makes sense - right? Sure it makes sense for outsiders to play the two plus two game. But don't Pats fans know the team a bit better? Don't we know the kind of player BB seeks? Haven't we learned YET that BB can lean toward a lesser rated prospect simply because he may fit the system best?

And what makes yourself or anyone else think DRC is a better fit than all other CB prospects? His Combine numbers? His college production? His conference competition?

In addition to good character and work ethic, all BB wants from his CB is solid ball skills, sound tackling fundamentals, and the smarts to play in the Pats defense. And if he's a round one candidate -- he must have proven this on the college level. If DRC fits this description -- then fine. But I'm sure there must be another CB or two who also fit.

JMO.

 

[BradyToMoss]

"In addition to good character and work ethic, all BB wants from his CB is solid ball skills, sound tackling fundamentals, and the smarts to play in the Pats defense. And if he's a round one candidate -- he must have proven this on the college level. If DRC fits this description -- then fine. But I'm sure there must be another CB or two who also fit."

Of the 3 BB traits that you mention above. DRC meets two of those with flying colors, he's a sound tackler and his ball skills are off the charts. One thing that I can't speak of is his smarts. How his sitdown went with the Pats from a "smarts" perspective is anyone's guess. When asked to draw up a situational defense, he chose the easiest defense to draw up, that being a "Cover-2". What does this say about his football acumen, who knows. I'm sure BB and Pioli learned alot about his football acumen after the interview. What I can tell you about DRC is that he is best known to excel in "Zone-based" defenses, which as we know, is what we do, this is his forte.

Can McKelvin or a Jenkins be a better fit for our defense even though they don't bring the same type of athletic intangibles as DRC, perhaps. Time will tell obviously.

 

[primetime]

Of the 3 BB traits that you mention above. DRC meets two of those with flying colors, he's a sound tackler and his ball skills are off the charts. One thing that I can't speak of is his smarts.

That's funny. Experts who have seen him play aside from the Senior Bowl disagree.

"At Tennessee State, allowed inferior receivers to separate and catch passes. In college, got upright in backpedal, hindering ability to transition. Lacks natural instincts, and often reacts late to receivers' routes. Shows sloppy and raw technique, raising questions of how well he learns from coaching. Does not play with intensity; does not come upfield quickly in run support, content to allow teammates to make tackles."

 

[BradyToMoss]

That's funny. Experts who have seen him play aside from the Senior Bowl disagree.

"At Tennessee State, allowed inferior receivers to separate and catch passes. In college, got upright in backpedal, hindering ability to transition. Lacks natural instincts, and often reacts late to receivers' routes. Shows sloppy and raw technique, raising questions of how well he learns from coaching. Does not play with intensity; does not come upfield quickly in run support, content to allow teammates to make tackles."

When was this written up after his sophomore season? Look, I've posted clips to his senior bowl, please take a look at how this guy tackles. There was a quick out thrown to a WR or back out in the flat, watch the closing speed and the tackle form when he dropped this guy, it was text book. As far as his ball skills, they are unmatched, he high points the ball like no other corner and he's got incredible length, he will be extrememly tough to throw over and his straight-line speed allows him to stay with anyone.

Oh and some experts say this:

Naturally athletic and very smooth...Great height with long arms and some growth potential...Very good timed speed with a burst to close...Instinctive and breaks on the ball quickly...Terrific agility...Playmaker with exceptional ball skills...Aggressive and confident...Was pretty productive at his level...Also an excellent kick returner.

 

[12+81=TD]

Given the OP's first choices I would take Chris Long hands down.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Well honestly, I don't see what all the fuss is about Dom Cromartie's weight.
Deion Sander's playing weight was 198.

Dom's official combine weight is 184. Gaining 10 lbs shouldn't be that hard.
The other top cornerback being discussed, Mckelvin, weighed in offically at 190. Only 6 lbs heavier than Dom.

Brandon Flowers and Antoine Cason both also officially weighed in at 190. I've noticed a lot of people touting Cason and McKelvin without expressing any huge concern about their weights.

Check the numbers yourself:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/rating...r=2008&GenPos=CB&sortorder=LastName&order=ASC

As for where DRC should actually go, I don't know. I think that the Pats can trade down to the 10-14 range and still pick up a very good CB though.

Given the OP's first choices I would take Chris Long hands down.

Chris Long won't last to #7. Let's stay on topic. You can always create your own, Draft Chris Long thread if you'd like.