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If Jimmy Looks a Franchise QB, Would You Trade Brady?


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"One win or One loss does not a season make. "

Sure it does! In football more than any other sport. You're just saying that because the Pats usually have the division locked up by Thanksgiving. That might not be the case this year with two of the Pats' home division games being played without Tom Brady. Lose both of those (or even one) then you have to win on the road in Buffalo (doable) and/or Miami (not-so-doable).
 
Blanda played as a Kicker not a QB in his 40s. Favre was the only one to play into his early forties, and he was a shell of himself, but too dogged to retire. In baseball,Willie Mays stayed too long too.


Warren Moon played until he was 44, and he was a starter until he was 42.
 
We all know that time waits for no man, and there will come a time where Brady goes. At that point, we will need a franchise QB, and when you are so strong elsewhere, they aren't going to fall into your lap.

Jimmy has a chance to shine. If, and it is a big if, BB thinks that Jimmy is a franchise QB, would you, in much the same way as SF and GB moved on from JM and BF to SY and AR, get rid of Brady and let the new era begin?

If not, Jimmy may well be gone at the end of the year, as he is due to get paid.

The option may well be watching Brady retire in a couple of years, and having a decade of useless QB's, and watching the Jets pound us!

Trade him... Why not just release the bum?


FYI - Garoppolo is under contract through the end of the 2017 season.
 
Trade him... Why not just release the bum?


FYI - Garoppolo is under contract through the end of the 2017 season.

Yes, I said trade him...it was a question for Christ's sake

And FYI, I know full well he is under contract until 2017, but i have doubts they will let him go to the end of his contract and let him walk. I feel he will be gone at the end of the season when there is trade value. I have made both these things clear throughout the thread and it is blatantly obvious you haven't read the pages, or you don't understand if you have. I'm bored to tears of people not reading what has been put down and getting their own impression of what I have said.

I did not say trade Brady

I know JG is under contract through 2017.

There you go...nice and clear

In five pages time I imagine I will have to answer the same things again from someone like you who hasn't read the thread.
 
I watched quite a bit of them that year, and my opinion then and now is unchanged (thanks for your input though, and of course you're right). It would have taken some serious insight, or foresight, for Shula to sit Earl Morrall (also MVP) vs. the Jets, and I don't think anybody expected him to have such a bad day. But Shula did go with Griese in the '72 playoffs even though he was just active in time. It's like this for me: when game time is approaching, it's time to put up or shut up. Seifert likely didn't see things the way I did, and also likely didn't have the stones to start Joe. I obviously do not think he would have struggled as you do; the bottom line is this: Given that we must do whatever it takes to win this game, I saw no alternative to starting Montana. Among other things, the Cowboys prepared for Steve. Similarly, starting Grogan in SBXX was a must for several reasons: Eason had the flu, was simply not equipped to handle what the Bears were going to present, and Grogan had the experience, toughness and ability to manage a game in which every possession counted; furthermore Grogan was the single main reason the team was even competitive that year, and they needed to slow the game down as much as possible (IOW do the exact opposite Berry planned...Marino was not on our team) to at least give us a chance in what would obviously have been a monumental, historic upset. I obviously consider Grogan and Montana to be far superior QB's to Eason and Young, respectively.
Grogan > Eason is an easy call, at any point, but Montana > Young at that particular point in time I'm not sure I buy. That Cowboys team was younger, bigger, faster, stronger, and hungrier than that Niners bunch and Young being the vastly more mobile and pliable of the two I think helped keep them in that game. SF went 14-2 and got HFA with Young all the way, so I think the Morrall '68 comparison is a little more relevant because Unitas barely played that year - it would have taken extraordinary balls to go away from what had worked so well all year (same spot Seifert was in), against a team you considered yourselves better than anyway. The Dolphins team was a lot more run-heavy than the '68 Colts so I think Griese/Morrall were interchangeable parts on that squad, though of course that's easy to say because they won. If only they'd remind us once in a while....

As I'm a "let Brady play until he sucks" guy this will sound counter-intuitive but the Niners also could have wrecked their future because they got 6 more great years out of Young (and a SB) after that game. Joe was still very good in KC - it's hard to say what his stats would have looked like in SF instead of playing MartyBall in KC - but he had pretty clearly deteriorated significantly physically by the end of those seasons. To bring it back to Brady, I think the point at which using Montana/Young as a corollary to TB/JG fails miserably is that Tom hasn't shown any signs of deterioration or had any repetitive injury issues (knocks wood), and JG hasn't started most of two full seasons and posted 100+ passer ratings. If either of those things were remotely true at this point I may feel differently about the situation, I'm sure there were many Niners fans who would rather they let Joe play it out if it meant maybe he'd get a shot at one last SB ring...even if that means some day you have to watch Tim Rattay start. There was just a lot more verifiable evidence that Steve Young was for real (and that Joe's clock was ticking loudly) by that time than the highly circumstantial reviews some are giving JG based on "how his poise looks", or whatever.

Personally I think Haley & Co. would probably end up knocking Joe out anyway, that game was very physical to my recollection, and while I doubt Joe would lack confidence in that scenario I don't think the one half of football in 2 years against a pretty bad Lions team would be enough to make me bench the MVP. But I suppose there's an argument to be made that the surprise value of a Montana start (or coming out in the 2nd half) could swing what was a very competitive game that was basically decided by 49er turnovers. So fair enough, it is your opinion, and it's certainly an interesting alternate history to think about.
 
Grogan > Eason is an easy call, at any point, but Montana > Young at that particular point in time I'm not sure I buy. That Cowboys team was younger, bigger, faster, stronger, and hungrier than that Niners bunch and Young being the vastly more mobile and pliable of the two I think helped keep them in that game. SF went 14-2 and got HFA with Young all the way, so I think the Morrall '68 comparison is a little more relevant because Unitas barely played that year - it would have taken extraordinary balls to go away from what had worked so well all year (same spot Seifert was in), against a team you considered yourselves better than anyway. The Dolphins team was a lot more run-heavy than the '68 Colts so I think Griese/Morrall were interchangeable parts on that squad, though of course that's easy to say because they won. If only they'd remind us once in a while....

As I'm a "let Brady play until he sucks" guy this will sound counter-intuitive but the Niners also could have wrecked their future because they got 6 more great years out of Young (and a SB) after that game. Joe was still very good in KC - it's hard to say what his stats would have looked like in SF instead of playing MartyBall in KC - but he had pretty clearly deteriorated significantly physically by the end of those seasons. To bring it back to Brady, I think the point at which using Montana/Young as a corollary to TB/JG fails miserably is that Tom hasn't shown any signs of deterioration or had any repetitive injury issues (knocks wood), and JG hasn't started most of two full seasons and posted 100+ passer ratings. If either of those things were remotely true at this point I may feel differently about the situation, I'm sure there were many Niners fans who would rather they let Joe play it out if it meant maybe he'd get a shot at one last SB ring...even if that means some day you have to watch Tim Rattay start. There was just a lot more verifiable evidence that Steve Young was for real (and that Joe's clock was ticking loudly) by that time than the highly circumstantial reviews some are giving JG based on "how his poise looks", or whatever.

Personally I think Haley & Co. would probably end up knocking Joe out anyway, that game was very physical to my recollection, and while I doubt Joe would lack confidence in that scenario I don't think the one half of football in 2 years against a pretty bad Lions team would be enough to make me bench the MVP. But I suppose there's an argument to be made that the surprise value of a Montana start (or coming out in the 2nd half) could swing what was a very competitive game that was basically decided by 49er turnovers. So fair enough, it is your opinion, and it's certainly an interesting alternate history to think about.
Shula, the Dolphins, Haley...all very worthy of being raked over the coals and nationally humiliated (unlike the Patriots)
 
"One win or One loss does not a season make. "

Sure it does! In football more than any other sport. You're just saying that because the Pats usually have the division locked up by Thanksgiving. That might not be the case this year with two of the Pats' home division games being played without Tom Brady. Lose both of those (or even one) then you have to win on the road in Buffalo (doable) and/or Miami (not-so-doable).
I agree. And the more I see, how much Grop is not quite ready, the more pissed I get at this F'n league. They got exactly what they wanted. They don't like BB and his winning at all cost, against the parity, plan that the NEW money making machine wants. Man, it angers me so much!! I hate GoToHell immensely . These bastards are actually going to ruin our season because they know we would have kicked ass!! Geez, I really want to stop watching, but I just have to hang in with the hopes we kick the living 5h!t out of this pansy ass league. Lets get em!!! AAAAHHHH!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:.
 
I would do a Jim Plunkett / Hershel Walker type trade
 
Can anyone name a QB who has played as well as Brady at 36/37/38?

I don't believe we will see any drop off soon.
 
The last 4 seasons the Patriots have gone 12-4 each time. They did that with 2 4-0 starts and 2 2-2 starts.

If this season starts 2-2, nobody should be surprised or worried.

If this season starts 4-0, nobody should be surprised, nobody should send Jimmy G to Canton, and nobody should expect another 16-0 season.
 
The Pats have been blessed to have had 5 Superbowl capable quarterbacks, Plunkett, Eason, Grogan, Bledsoe and Brady play for them during their existence. Some teams over the same period have had none or only one. Fans here forget how hard it is to find even one good starting caliber QB. I see no reason for CAP reasons to shed one, if you happen to find you temporarily have two. The QB position is just too important. Its better to lose another good player at another position if you have to do so.
 
Like the goal tender on a hockey team, the quarterback position is usually pivotal...I will never forget the day Mike O'Connell, out of sheer desperation with a bad team, picked Tim Thomas up after he cleared waivers. From then on, even as the local media blathered on endlessly to get rid of him, initially because he "wasn't good enough" and then because he was "overpaid", I knew the Bruins had a Cup capable-winning goalie, and they hung on to him and sure enough, won one.

There have been occasions where teams won the Super Bowl with guys at QB who were unspectacular veterans who simply did not screw up (Bucs, Ravens). But normally, even the difference between leading a team to a Super Bowl and actually winning one can be staggering. I disagreed with some particulars of how the 'Niners handled having two in the early 90's, but it's a problem most teams would embrace. There have been some really good QB's here with the Pats, so let's take a look at the leading passers:

1. Tom Brady - Yeah, he might work out...maybe...
2. Drew Bledsoe - With all those yards, it can be surprising, but leading a team all the way, managing the big games, the intangibles...I never saw it.
3. Steve Grogan - Seems like he was always fighting an uphill battle, often just to get on the field. He definitely had the goods, but didn't get that Doug Williams-like break. He never quit, though.
4. Babe Parilli - Vito was older when he was here, and those still around who saw him will tell you how good he was (it was HIS record Tom broke in '07)...He did get a ring in SBIII.
5. Tony Eason - I liked Tony. But, he's in the former group in my comparison above, with Bledsoe. Would NEVER start him over a healthy and active Grogan or Flutie. Berry's Achilles' heel.
6. Jim Plunkett - At or near the top in sports stories of redemption, after going through hell here and in SF, Mr. Davis picked him off the scrap heap and it was gratifying for us fans.
7-12 - No super guys here, but they got their chance at least.
13. Doug Flutie - This kid made getting the rug pulled out from under him a running, sad joke. Easily could have won a title here south of the border, especially in '88 (what a waste...chances to go all the way do not come around often, excluding our run now with TB & BB)
18. Joe Kapp - He was terrible here, but he totally was amazing otherwise, comparable to Brett Lorenzo Favre...willed his teams to win.
23. Brian Dowling - similar to Flutie, only far less dependent on athleticism. He was simply uncanny. This guy had two Super Bowls in him, if anyone then had had the wisdom/guts to put him at the controls of a good team.
50. Vinny Testaverde - Tough guy who kept slinging it. Nice to have him here briefly.
 
Can anyone name a QB who has played as well as Brady at 36/37/38?

I don't believe we will see any drop off soon.

Honestly, as long as he keeps doing his toxin flushing homeopathic super food diet and keeps avoiding vaccines while wearing his magnetic aura bracelet and harnessing the power of crystal vibrations he's probably going to remain the top QB in the league. The rest of them are filling their bodies with dihydrogen monoxide and other chemicals thanks to Big Pharma.

Vote Green Party.
 
The JAG era will hopefully end with Pats 2-2 or better. I'm somewhat concerned.
 
If Jimmy looks like a franchise QB I'd trade him for a 1st and 2nd next year and a 1st in 2018.
 
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