Idle thoughts - the exultation edition

[Fencer]

I called out the clock management at the time. Very little urgency, although Manning eventually forwent a few huddles.

I agree that passes to RBs were effective against us. Perhaps RBs are the new TEs.

I agree that the Brady/Vereen connection isn't nearly as automatic as Brady/Faulk.

 

[Nikolai]

11. They miss Chandler Jones. Ninko had a few pressures, but with the exception of the Ayers sack, the Pats pass rush was at best inconsistent. Manning was never under as much pressure as Brady.

It seemed to me that pressure on Manning wasn't a priority, but I think we need to give Collins some of his due for some decent pressures. I'm not a great film guy, but some of the schemes last night reminded me of what Washington did to Dallas on Monday night; replace Jerrigan with Collins.

I'm also not overly concerned with the state of the run game. I almost wondered if half the runs were simply setting up the play action. One thing is for certain; Denver's run defense isn't quite the paper tiger I thought it was before the game.

 

[Nikolai]

I called out the clock management at the time. Very little urgency, although Manning eventually forwent a few huddles.

I'm wondering if maybe the lack of hurry-up offense has to do with crowd noise. I know people say that Gillette isn't very loud compared to other places (not getting into that now), but it's certainly louder than what the Forehead operates under in Denver. We've seen video of how crowd noise affects him. Perhaps he doesn't have the confidence to consistently run the hurry-up on the road?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

What NO ONE has mentioned in all the threads I've read and all the criticisms leveled at OUR team, as usual...is the play of Stork today.

It saddens me to realize you have me on Ignore

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

9. On of the things I liked about this game was that the Pats played far from a perfect game and STILL blew the donkeys out. Brady missed at least 3 open receivers. The receivers dropped 5 balls. The OL had a few plays they'd like to forget, and the running game was still anemic. Still the offense was responsible for 29 points against one of the so called best D's in the league, and Brady was complaining about leaving so many points on the field. I agree. It was good, but can be even better....and that's a nice thought

My thoughts exactly.
Don't forget TFB uncharacteristically re-enacting Bledsoe, missing on a couple passes into the flat.

Great recap as always.

 

[mosi]

What I really like is that the Bronco's played the "lets stop the run and make Brady beat you" game. And Brady killed them.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

What I really like is that the Bronco's played the "lets stop the run and make Brady beat you" game. And Brady killed them.

Jack
Del
Rio

Need we say more?

 

[SacPete1]

Thanks Ken. Always look forward to your idle thoughts.

I think the illegal shift was correctly called. Looked like a mistake on Lafell to even be moving in that situation as Brady would have waited to snap or TO it had he seen him move.

Didn't really expect much from the running game but not overly concerned either. It was good against the Bears and I like how Gray runs hard and pushes the pile. Let's see how it is against Indi.
But make no mistake, having Gronk, Lafell, Edelman and Vereen all produce in the passing game presents the most diverse group of weapons since '07 and should be and is the strength of this offense.

Really liked the intensity, energy and focus they played with and I'm glad they have a week off since it would be very difficult to maintain that consecutive weeks. That being said, I'd really like to see the same each week or close to. The difference between this and the Jets was night and day.

I saw Reiss write that Arrington and Dennard may have been resting in anticipation of this game and I really didn't buy it when he wrote it. I don't think that's Belichick's style. A quote during a press conference was telling when asked about rotating in Cannon at the tackle position (although I don't think I saw him yesterday); he said Cannon has earned the playing time and I think that's what we have in Butler. I suspect that he has performed better than Dennard in practice and has effectively earned his playing time. I also think this is a great message to send to your team and I think this is where mental toughness is developed. Place competitive pressure on players in practice and whoever performs best will be so much more mentally prepared going into a game.

I really like this Oline combo and performance. 4 man rush is proving to be ineffective for the most part against them. They have all picked up their game and Brady is climbing the ladder and sliding nicely to give himself more time and a better lane. I think we'll see more 5 man rushes coming up and coming from the middle.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Another thought I wish I included in the original post.

Anyone else notice Brady flinching at shadows in the couple of series. I think he was mentally prepared for a better pass rush than he eventually got. It was only about 3 time and happened very early in the game and was never seen again.

I actually thought — and said during the game thread — the opposite. I felt like he was steadier in the face of the heavy rush than I'd seen him in a while. He was seeing ewer ghosts than I think he sometimes does.

Anyway, lots of great observations Ken and I hope to dive into them a little more.

Great win, but just like I wouldn't get too down after KC I won't get too up now. Tough road ahead. But this team is starting to remind me of 2010 — Brady's having that kind of year and the KC loss was the 2014 version of the Cleveland loss (right down to Ian issuing a warning to the board to behave.) The 2010 team overcame that setback and did very well against a tough, tough schedule. Lots of tough games ahead — can't afford to squander what was gained last night (HFA vs Den). But you have to feel more confident now.

 

[Fencer]

I'm wondering if maybe the lack of hurry-up offense has to do with crowd noise. I know people say that Gillette isn't very loud compared to other places (not getting into that now), but it's certainly louder than what the Forehead operates under in Denver. We've seen video of how crowd noise affects him. Perhaps he doesn't have the confidence to consistently run the hurry-up on the road?

You're probably right. Even so, if they can't do hurry-up better than that on the road, something's wrong with their preparation.

 

[reflexblue]

Joker is spot on. I'm honestly shocked as to just how well the interior trio of Connolly, Stork, and Wendell are playing as of late. I'm really loving that Stork is flanked on both sides by two guys with center experience as I really think this is helping him progress. Also seems the relative stability on the interior of the line has has positively affected Solder and Vollmer. I've gone from full on panic mode to cautiously optimistic looking at this o-line.

I'll co sign this. stork has really made a difference, hes stabilized the line.

 

[reflexblue]

On their final possession, everyone watching could see that Manning and his offense were offensive. They had absolutely NO sense of urgency, no hurry up and play like a professional should.

Nope. They just played like there was all the time in the world. Rather than just go through the motions, it would have been easier for them to just do a series of kneel-downs and let the clock expire. If you aren't going to TRY and win, you might as well give it up and kneel down, rather than risk getting someone injured in a meaningless series.

I hope that the Denver press pounds Manning and his offensive over this point, and hopefully the rest of the NFL media will point it out to. It was not only unprofessional, but disrespectful to their opponent, and to the game. BUT....... that's how Manning is. If he isn't in charge, if he isn't basking in the lime light of adoration and hype, then he's a miserable little man.

I put this on Fox, it was impossible for denver to win the game down soo many points with appx. a minute left but Fox uses his time outs just to delay the enevitable, bush league move.

 

[reflexblue]

Chung has been a whipping boy in the past, and deservedly so, but credit where it's due, he is playing pretty consistent, solid defense at the moment and has earned his starting role.

I saw him talking to revis on the bench, maybe hes getting pointers

 

[borg]

1) First series...Denver on offense.....New England corners pressing at the LOS. This is the style of defense we all have been waiting for....for at least a half dozen years. The right players......playing an aggressive scheme....NO MORE BEND AND BREAK vs Manning.

2) Determination. NE leadership had this team focused. It starts at the top and the quality of character in the locker room matters. Think of the garbage teams like Dallas and Chicago have been dealing with the past few weeks. Lose focus......lose games. BB has that covered

3) Does any front office work a roster better in mid season than the Pats?

4) What happened to the theory..."The passing game will produce running opportunities?"

5) My one complaint yesterday was NE's tepid approach on offense in the 1st qtr with the wind. Two heavy weights feeling each other out. (Brady bomb attempt to Lafell the exception)

6) Miami is legit. Their D is becoming special. The fish have become contenders and the Dec. 14 rematch may be a very significant game...for both teams

7) San Fran...they cometh...and they goeth.....like a bright comet flashing by earth. Gore, Bolden, V Davis....pretty old dudes that stopped producing. The BB Handbook of Team Building clearly states..."Better to shed players a year too early than a year too late." San Fran violates many of the BB commandments....and the results are on display this year.
More proof BB knows best.

8) Can't wait for the AFC Championship game vs Denver....at home. May the winds roar upon us.

 

[Nikolai]

You're probably right. Even so, if they can't do hurry-up better than that on the road, something's wrong with their preparation.

I'm not sure it's a case of preparation, though I am certainly one who doesn't put Fox anywhere near the top tier of NFL coaches. I think it's a mental toughness issue. Denver has a few key players with those kinds of problems, and Manning leads the pack.

 

[mayoclinic]

1) First series...Denver on offense.....New England corners pressing at the LOS. This is the style of defense we all have been waiting for....for at least a half dozen years. The right players......playing an aggressive scheme....NO MORE BEND AND BREAK vs Manning.

This was the first time since the 2003 playoff game where I felt that the defense really had all the tools to manhandle Manning.

6) Miami is legit. Their D is becoming special. The fish have become contenders and the Dec. 14 rematch may be a very significant game...for both teams

I think that's a good thing for the Pats. Keep them sharp.

8) Can't wait for the AFC Championship game vs Denver....at home. May the winds roar upon us.

Right now I think the Pats are the best team in the AFC, followed by the Steelers. I think Denver would have a hard time stopping the Steeler's offense.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Browner played a great game despite 3 penalties. D Thomas is a big dude and so is Browner. This is what I envisioned when they added him and Wasn't sure if he had it in him. but he did well and never kept his head down even when he got beat a couple of times. I'll take the yards over letting the guy completely dominate the game like he usually does.

 

[mayoclinic]

Browner played a great game despite 3 penalties. D Thomas is a big dude and so is Browner. This is what I envisioned when they added him and Wasn't sure if he had it in him. but he did well and never kept his head down even when he got beat a couple of times. I'll take the yards over letting the guy completely dominate the game like he usually does.

Browner is a key. He brings tremendous physicality, aggressiveness and attitude to the defense - the closest thing we've had to a Rodney since 2008. The defense is noticeably more physical when he's in the game. I'll trade a few penalties for that.

 

[goheels22002]

12.Speaking of Ninkovich, isn't it about time we stopped thinking of him as solid guy who is OK until we find someone "really good". He's really good. Textbook solid in the run game, a better than average pass rusher, decent in coverage, and versatile enough to play inside or outside, standing up or with his hand in the dirt. People sometimes forget ALL the things he does. He is much more valuable than someone who can JUST rush the passer from the edge.

Agreed. Jamie Collins, too. Collins was everywhere against the Broncos. He called the defense frequently, rushed the passer, did a nice job in coverage and stuffed a couple of Hillman runs by shooting gaps and wrapping up his legs. Collins looked to me like he has taken that step from rookie to veteran, being where he needs to be without having to think first. Against a top-flight offense, that is tremendous progress for a second year player.

What makes this defense tick with Mayo out is the versatility of the front seven, which will only improve with the return of Chandler Jones, Sealver Siliga, and the arrival of Alan Branch. Three starting DL will show up during this run against several good teams. What that means is that Vince and Ninkovich get to pace themselves down the stretch.

The defensive line will be much tougher against the run with Siliga and Branch available after the break. Several posters mention Ayers and Casillas making a contribution in their initial appearances with the Patriots, so we can be optimistic that the linebacker group will be less of a weakness.

 

[Rob0729]

Lets get right into it.

1. This game was the perfect example of why Brady is the winner and Manning is merely a stat machine. Peyton had over 430 in passing and I'd bet 2/3rds of them came after the game was out of reach

2. Manning is a great QB. A legitmate HOFer and ONE of the best QB's in NFL history. You really aren't a football fan if you can't admire some of those perfect sideline throws against tight coverage that he made over and over again. That. being said, "god I hate that whining little *****" . Like I said, Manning padded his stats in a blow out. Both times the game got tough for him, the league seems to change the rules to his benefit. Quite frankly its unseemly and I wonder why the mediots who constantly ball wash him, never mention this obvious fact.

3. I think the universal reaction to Gronk's catch on the GL must have been "holy crap"

4. We had a great thread pre-game concerning the importance of the run game. Er, we were all wrong. Not only did the run game never get close to 4ypc goal lwe'd like to see, we also didn't see the 40% run/pass balance that would have been nice. 25 runs for 67 yds is not what we want to see.

5. As bad as the Pats running game, what was surprising how well the Pats run defense performed. Don't forget that Hillman had over 100 yds rushing in his last 2 games, but tonight only had only 16yds in 10 attempts. It was simply outstanding. I know a lot of people here were very worried about the run game. I was not one of them, but I didn't think it would turn around overnight.

6. I tried to watch DEasley tonight more closely tonight. I'm still disappointed that he hasn't become more of a factor behind the LOS, but I was very impressed how well he held up vs the run game tonight playing out of position at DE. I also caught a bit of the Ravens/Steeler game and couldn't help notice that Timmy Jernigan was playing the way I hoped Easely would be playing at this point.. I saw a couple of times he was just blowing the Steeler OG back into the backfield. Perhaps I'm being too critical and expecting too much at this stage of his ACL recovery.

7. Patting myself on the back (just a bit) In my pre-game thread, I hoped the Pats would run multiple fronts which showed immediate pressure, yet rarely blitzed, and for the most part, that's what happened. When the Pats did blitz, they did it from the middle with various degrees of effect. In the secondary they mixed it up with both man and zone coverages and people changing up who they covered from time to time. Sometimes Browner was on the TE, sometimes not.

I'm not sure how you'd characterize the 2nd half defenses since I think the Pats played much more zone and much less of an aggressive strategy.

8. The officiating was a major concern, since Walt Anderson's crew seemed to be tailor made for Manning's game. And while there were several calls that were fairly ludicrous, they were fairly ludicrous on both sides of the ball, and the penalty stats ended up being almost identical. Though when the Pats got 5 penalties on the Bronco's drive that literally gifted them a TD, I thought I was going to have a stroke. But in retrospect this crew hurt both teams. BTW- the worse call imho, was the illegal shift call that wiped out a Pats first down. On the replay it looked to me that both Edelman and Lafell got set before the snap. There was no need to throw that flag.

9. On of the things I liked about this game was that the Pats played far from a perfect game and STILL blew the donkeys out. Brady missed at least 3 open receivers. The receivers dropped 5 balls. The OL had a few plays they'd like to forget, and the running game was still anemic. Still the offense was responsible for 29 points against one of the so called best D's in the league, and Brady was complaining about leaving so many points on the field. I agree. It was good, but can be even better....and that's a nice thought

10. The OL continues to improve, just as the schedule gets tougher. There were a number of times the rush got to Brady, so it wasn't perfect, but Stork did a great job on Knighton in the middle. The interior guys as a whole were very solid. I can think of only one play where there was fast pressure up the middle. Miller and Ware were held to one sack, and while Miller got his share of hits, on the whole Solder and Volmer did a decent job. No perfect, but they won a whole lot more times than they lost.

11. They miss Chandler Jones. Ninko had a few pressures, but with the exception of the Ayers sack, the Pats pass rush was at best inconsistent. Manning was never under as much pressure as Brady.

12.Speaking of Ninkovich, isn't it about time we stopped thinking of him as solid guy who is OK until we find someone "really good". He's really good. Textbook solid in the run game, a better than average pass rusher, decent in coverage, and versatile enough to play inside or outside, standing up or with his hand in the dirt. People sometimes forget ALL the things he does. He is much more valuable than someone who can JUST rush the passer from the edge.

13. I liked that Devlin and DA got some looks today. Even Hooman had a 17 yd catch called back on a bogus illegal shift call. I'd like to see them used more.

14. BB clearly out coached Fox....again No one should be surprised.

15. I sincerely hope that no one is stupid enough to try and blame DA for the Brady pick. The ball was clearly uncatchable..... and one of the 3 Brady misses I saw.

16. It was a great win and as of this moment we are the #1 seed in the conference. But 3 of the next 4 games will not only be against some very tough opponents, they will also be on the road. I'd be surprised if we don't lose one of the next 5 games, and I could live with 2.

17. Great win for the Dophins, and another hard fought moral victory for the Jets (lol). I'm not sure whether that 37-0 win over SD showed just how good the Fins are, or how much of an over-hype the Chargers were. It could just mean that its tough to play in the heat of Miami if you're not used to it.

18. OK its time to wonder what's the deal with Alphonso Dennard. Is he injured? Is he being punished? Or is it just a simple case of Butler playing better than him right now. Butler was consistently around the ball tonight. He had some receptions against him, but most of those time he was in great position, but was a victim of a great throw. So I'm not unhappy to see him in there. He also seems to have surpassed, Logan Ryan as well on the CB depth chart. However I don't remember Dennard playing that badly when he was in there, so I'm still curious to find out the story behind the story on this.

Summary - I'm sure the media will over hype this win and try and present us as conference favorites until we lose. But in the same way it was stupid to bury the team after the KC loss, its equally stupid to think this team (as it currently stands) is better than any of the other contenders. Lots of improvement still has to happen if this team is going to make a long run in the playoffs. Staying healthy will help....a lot

Great job as usual ken.

A few points:

• I think Miami is playing really well, but I think San Diego was crowned far too quickly. They got a lot of cred for beating Seattle when everyone thought they were the best team in the NFL. Now that they are just above average, the win is not nearly as impressive (you can say the same thing about people giving the Broncos credit for a close loss). Three of their five wins were against the three worst teams in the NFL (Jets, Jags, Raiders) and another vs. the Bills while Manuel was still the QB. Plus they have been decimated by injuries.
• I think Dennard is probably not close to 100% even though he is practicing fully (I think the same with Dobson). I think it hurt the Pats when they rushed him back last year and he was a shell of himself. With the depth in the secondary, I think they can afford not to rush him back this year. I could be wrong, but that is my thinking.
• The pass rush has been much better than I expected it would be without Jones. As long as he isn't hindered by his hip injury after he returns, I excited to see what this pass rush might be with him in there.
• I feel that that combo of Connolly, Stork, and Wendell is probably the best starting combo of the interior of the line since 2011 when it was Mankins, Connolly, and Waters.