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Idle thoughts - post draft musings

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Apr 25, 2010.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    1. I guess this would be the appropriate time to do my second guessing on this draft, which btw, I'm pretty happy with and will comment on later.

    a. I am now completely happy with our first pick. The more I hear the more I like it.
    b. I would have let the Ravens have Gronkowsi, even though I'm glad he's here, and taken Kindle. He's going to be a great TE, but I feel that there were several guys who would have been available in the first 4 rounds who would have filled the bill for us in the TE position, which was ESPECIALLY deep this draft. Pitta, Graham, Hernandez, etc all would have been available to us later on.
    c. Now we could have taken a Golden Tate type WR
    d. I would have thought that we could have waited on Spikes until the 3rd round, and picked another potential pass rusher like Worlidis, or a DE with pass rush abilities.
    e. On the second day I have a problem with the punter in the 5th. Here again I would have addressed the DL and pass rush issues, maybe going for a small college flyer like Arthur Moats.
    f. Finally at the end of the draft I probably shouldn't be surprised to see additions to Dante Scarnechia's Hitler Youth corps when we could have used a throwaway pick to grab a guy like RB Blount, or former basketball player TE prospect who just had a few games in college, whose name I can't remember.
    g. Also I think we need to think about the end of the Dan Koppen era, and I don't his future replacement on the roster...or in this draft.

    2. OK, now that I have THAT off my chest, let me tell you how I think some of the picks fit.

    a. McCourty - I actually see him as the starting CB opposite Boddin this season. I see Butler as the nickle with Wheatly Springs and Wilhite as depth McCourty's physicality makes him the more likely to start on the outside. Butler's cover ability makes him the perfect nickel to match up on other team's slot receivers. Wilhite and Wheatly give us experienced good depth, which as we know all to well is essential, and Springs' size can be used in certain match ups with big WRs and in the red zone.

    b. Gronkowski - Clearly the best all round blocker/receiver TE in the draft, so I understand why BB chose him. At worst he is Daniel Graham II, which isn't a bad thing. At best he's a notch better Receiver, which, at his size, will make him a real 2 way threat....and hopefully make the TE position in the Pats offense relevant again.

    c. Cunningham - I'm not sure he's the guy who can beat pass blockers one on one, or if he will end up being a solid all round OLB in a few years who can set the edge, get 5-7 sacks and be a consistently good tackler. Not a bad pick, but one that doesn't stand out to me on paper. My hope he's good enough to get on the field in pass rush situations and prove pressure, while he learns the position.

    d. Spikes - Again, I'm pretty sure he would have been there in the 3rd, which would have allowed us to pick a better WR in the 2nd. But he's here and if he has the quickness of a 4.6-7 ILB, I won't care if he ran a 5 flat 40. One of the objects of this draft was to become better at stopping the run and being more physical. He fits that bill....if he has the quickness in the 10 yd box that he will be operating in as an ILB.

    e. Price - Never heard of him, but he seems to have the quickness and speed to develop into an outside WR with decent size. Only time will tell if he pans out. With Holt on board, its less of pressing issue. Plus I believe that one of the reason's the Pats have invested so heavily in NEXT year's draft is be in position to take one of the top 4 impact WRs that are reportedly coming out in 2011. Its supposedly the one area of that draft that will be deep.

    f. Hernandez - Again I would have gone with a DE or OLB flyer at this spot or maybe a WR, but I understand the Hernandez pick. I makes more sense when you think of him more in the Dallas Clark mode. Not so much a stereotypical TE, but a big WR who can spread wide and be a big target underneath and occasionally splitting a seam route. Think Dallas Clark. With him as the 3rd TE, it is less likely we need a 6th WR.

    g. I made my feelings known on Mesko earlier, and the rest of the draft is just a shot in the dark anyways. I might have taken DIFFERENT shots, but who knows. Last season, I never expected anything out of the last 4 rounds of THAT draft, and it got us 3 key players for this year. I can only hope that we get 3 more.

    3. I'm OK with the Warren pick up. It is what it is. However this guy has started for the last 3 years on an NFL team. He gives us more depth and more time to develop our younger players. And don't underestimate the value of keeping those BIG guys fresh over the long NFL season.

    4. I'm sure in his post draft presser, BB emphasized that the team building process IS NOT over. Who knows what will transpire over the next 4+ months before the season starts, and the final 53 will be determined.

    5. However as of right now, the team just got deeper and more talented....unfortunately so did the rest of the 31 teams in the league.

    6. In parting, I'm getting comfortable and less irate when I see the media thinking that the Pats are no longer one of the AFC's leading contenders to be in the superbowl. It is not unfair to think that teams like the Chargers, Jets, Ravens, and Colts should be preseason favorites. First it makes sense, and second what does it matter. The teams like the Giants, Jets and Cardinals have proved once you are in the playoffs anything can happen. I CERTAINLY can see us being a 10-12 win team, and that is all that will take to get us into the second season.
     
  2. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Good writing as always, but disagree on a few things.

    b. Kindle needs microfracture surgery. I really like Gronk as an overall package to offset Hernandez.

    f. We have another wrestler
    g. We did draft a possible replacement for Koppen in Larsen.

    On Hernandez, do not think of him as a 3rd TE, I think he will start. I believe he will be the X factor, especially when Welker returns and draws all the underneath cover. Not only does he present matchup problems but he will mess up how coverage is dictated, because last season it got to be quite simple after the Saints D drew up a diagram for the rest of the league to copy: hound Moss high and pound Welker under.
     
  3. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

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    Gronkowski appears to have exactly what Grambo/Watson never had...soft hands. I like Rob over either those guys. Great pick and great job stealing him from the Ravens too.

    Cunningham is a freak of nature IMO. The player on the #4 college defense that BB called 'outstanding'. I like this pick. His exact role on the team is not clear but if they let him rush the passer on third and longs, he will be hard to handle.

    Both OL prospects appear to be very solid picks for the youth movement.

    Pats have been burned picking wideouts and I think they just took a guy who wants to play football over a typical prima donna. That is the only type player they seem to be able to develop at WR by the way.

    I would never pass up on Spikes and let him sit on the boards. Mayo and Spikes is the name of our defense for years to come.

    Love the Hernandez pick, a smart guy and big play threat with a different style than Gronkowski. Undervalued.

    Very happy with the punter selection if that was where they needed to take him to get him. We flat out need that position and this guy is a stud.

    Relative to other teams, we are a talented team. We just really seemed to lack focus last year. We did not get the maximum potential out of anybody IMO. I think we are a better team this year with a better record, period.
     
  4. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Anyone crying over not drafting Blount is looking at his Senior Bowl and pundit write-ups, while ignoring his 2009 game film.
    -- Corey Chavous on NFL Network went into a diatribe over the Boise State player taunting Blount, but at least came back to the fact that Blount had already dug himself into a hole with off-field behavior before the punch and meltdown - what Corey failed to mention was Blount triggered the taunting with several aggressive statements in the media before the game (a game where he backed up his talk by gaining a total of -5 yards).
    -- People like to make excuses for Blount by pointing at the taunting and claiming Oregon's offense wasn't designed around Blount, but they forget Blount was the starting RB for Oregon - in that offense - and he failed to perform when he was given the chance.
    -- It's true his failures came against top level programs, but just who is he going to play against in the NFL?

    I have my doubts about Mesko thanks to his sub-par Senior Bowl, but I'll take last season's top rated Punter over a sloooooowww to the line RB with limited change of direction and off-field baggage.
     
  5. realtime

    realtime Practice Squad Player

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    This post is long on comedy and short on actual insight but I enjoyed it very much. Thanks for posting.
     
  6. CopenhagenPatsfan

    CopenhagenPatsfan On the Roster

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    Wow, you have some nerve insulting one of the most insightful posters on this or any board. It is ok to disagree with him, but to insult him is just wrong.

    Why don't you come with some insights of your own instead of just insulting him. I suggest you look up some of patfankens posts before you say anything else.
     
  7. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Slow down, Box, I wasn't saying I wanted to take Blount over Mesko, I was just thinking that he might be worth a shot with one of the Comp picks....and you know that you should never just a player or a team on just one game. Many thought Blount had the talent to be a draftable RB, a position that we need to get younger and better at in the next few years.

    I was thinking that he or some other undervalued kid might have been more deserving of those shot in the dark picks than a QB that could have been signed after the draft. BTW do you really think that Mesko was going elsewhere in the 5th, and wouldn't have been happier if we had gotten a guy like Austin Lane, Arthur Moats, or the DLman from Syracuse
    whose name escapes me, there instead and took a chance on picking Mesko later in the draft.
     
  8. realtime

    realtime Practice Squad Player

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    LOL -- this is a message board, not the inside of the US Supreme Court. And I've been reading ken's posts for years. If he writes drivel, I don't see why I need to be a lemming and say "nice post" or "great insight" just because it contains a lot of words and it's written by someone who has made intelligent posts in the past. I think Rick Gosselin is a good writer as well, but if he posts something idiotic, he is -- and should be -- fair game here as well.

    Similarly, if the post is a good read for reasons other than its content (as this was), I will say so. And it's not easy to write something that's worth reading, so I applaud ken for writing something entertaining even if I thought the content was absurd.
     
  9. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #91 Jersey

    Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not insulted, nor did I think he meant to be insulting. He just didn't agree with what I wrote. I have no problems with that. It's just my opinion, which is only as good as the next guy's. :D
     
  10. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    great column, Ken--but,

    another long screed about " why didn't BB do something about our lack of a pass rush?" is getting a little tired. It's been going on since Peppers was available last year. People seem to be dissatisfied with anything short of a name vet at a hyper-inflated salary, or the most media-recognized draftee on the board. I'm not trying to defend BB, just point out that those type of choices just aren't going to happen. BB is far from being unaware of the teams' needs, and "we don't have a game scheduled for a while yet".


    I do agree with taking Spikes in the 2nd to insure the Spikes/Cunningham synergy. With Mayo in the middle calling the shots and Guyton back on the outside where he started before Mayo went down, the rebuilding of our LB corps will be a pleasant surprise, I suspect. People complain also about not replacing Seymour, also. He was a heck of a DE, but no one is irreplacable and he was positioned to suck a heck of a lot of oxygen out of that D-line if he stayed. In BB's 3-4, the 3 down linemen hold the POA; LB's make the plays. Do. Your. Job. Seymour wanted more glory than that.


    The Gronk and the Ghost--gotta love those Kowsky boys :D
     
  11. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I watched Blount against Boise State, Oregon State, and Ohio State, plus the Senior Bowl. I saw a slow RB who needed several yards to get up to speed and had the change of direction of an OL. He may be hard to take down, but unless he was up to full speed he wasn't worth much, he got stuffed in the backfield almost as often as he got past the LOS - remember the goal line effort in the Senior Bowl? They wound up putting it in the QB's hands after Blount got stuffed.

    Would I have liked another option in round five? Austen Lane is so raw it's not funny. Arthur Moats is best considered an ILB in NE's system - how many more does the team need? Arthur Jones was of interest, but looking at the pool of DL NE has after the draft, I'm not as concerned as I might be. I'd have liked another edge rusher in this draft, but NE clearly maneuvered to have a pick at this point in the draft, it may seem odd, but this is were they wanted to be to draft Mesko. I wasn't that high on him, but I haven't watched his film, timed him, or seen all Scotty O'Brien has seen in working him out. Life's a beach Ken, I was hoping the Aussie was the Punter they wanted and his competition was going to be a UDFA signing, but I guess not.
     
  12. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Blount's already making friends and influencing people:

    LeGarrette Blount disses Niners, joins Titans | ProFootballTalk.com
     
  13. sdh7711

    sdh7711 Rookie

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    Actually loved McCourty from day one you need 3 great corners in this league. Do a break down of top 5 RB's vs top 5WR's in the Superbowls over the past decade......WR's have been dominating it of late and last top 5 RB to win a SB was Dillon with us.

    Wanted Gresham at TE if he slide did not.....did not want Gronk cause of his back but if the Pats are satisfied so be it. Pita was a binkie of mine and they took Hernandez whom I despised but like I said lets see em on the field. But they selected two TE's that can both contribute and they can run some interesting two TE sets now which I love.

    Tate is a more a slot/possession WR which we have in Welker/Edleman....Price was a great pick....raw but a huge vertical deep threat.

    I despised the Spikes pick but ILB was a need and I loved Chaney who slide all the way into round 7 so what do I know then you know from scouting players when everyone thought Chaney was a consensus 3rd rounder. Hopefully Spikes is quicker than advertised if not he will be a the new 2 down run stuffing TJ in the middle.

    Wanted Worilds as well but Pitt through a monkey wrench when they took him.....I mean they have Woodley and Harrisson and take him round two...seriosuly? By the way though Cunningham even though he had pulled his hammy end fo his 40 on his pro day.....had a 1.57 sec ten yard split....thats insane initial burst for an OLB and would make him a pass rush demon if thats consistent.

    No problem taking Mesko in round 5.....every one had him round 6.....Pats were not getting him with their comp pick so they went and got their guy early. We have all thrown fits over the punting here at times....whats the big deal if you use a 5th or the 6th rounder on him? Its still using a day 3 pick to get an actual starter like last year with Ingram at LS, its good value no matter what way you slice it.

    Hoping one of those FA's or late DL picks work out the DL needs some solid depth.

    We drafted Larsen at center for the future, love his intangibles and is still very raw as he was converted from DL. Now while the combine is not everything Larsen tested as good or better than Pouncey in every category but one at the combine. But I think two years of coaching him up we have the heir apparent to Koppen.

    Blount btw is a major problem child......punches a player, storms the fans, and before that was suspended for missing team meetings and workouts. With Goodell now much harsher with his conduct policy than prior regimes make no sense to take him. Also weve been talking about getitng quality locker room guys which Blount is not.
     
  14. sg14

    sg14 On the Game Day Roster

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    Kuddo's to Box for pointing out that Blount had little talent from the start of this draft review,,

    Amazing how similar this draft as compared to last year's, first gather as much talent at need positions in the earlier rounds, later rounds load up on the big bodies,,

    Think Floyd Reese is helping

    Hope this draft is a good or better than last years.
     
  15. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    JC, tell me why is it that people seem to think that the only reason that BB doesn't "improve the pass rush" is that he refuses to do so. THAT make no sense. When are fans, including those here going to start to figure out that in today's passing mad NFL, EVERY SINGLE TEAM is focusing on improving their pass rush. EVERY TEAM. Unfortunately, the sad fact is that in every single draft there MIGHT be a hand fulll of players who have the size, quickness, speed, motor, and skill beat pass blockers one on one on a consistent basis, and most of THOSE take a few years to hone their skills. And since every one is looking for THAT guy, all the most obvious choices will be long gone before the Pats step up to the plate.

    HOWEVER, if we ARE going to EVENTUALLY improve the rush, he have to start drafting multiple prospects every yeaer if we hope to find one or two who actually can do the job. BB made a fine start with Cunningham, whose stats show he has the potential. But just ONE????? That's my complaint. We have the picks, so why not throw a lot of darts at the target and hope for the best, and not worry about those that fail. We've had 24 picks in the last 2 drafts and how many of them would you consider to be pass rush prospects. Two maybe, if you include Pryor from the inside. THAT isn't going to do it.
     
  16. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great post..

    From here on this current hierarchy will probably never make a big free agent splash again.. AD was a bust. And now will develop talent from within.. the theme of this draft was good football players, most of whom are leaders as 6 were team captains.. elected by their peers...

    Disagree about Mesko, there were a few punters taken in the next round, and this was imo a good choice, he is 6'4" and weighs 240, he is also a left footed punter... he was a team captain, we had the luxury of being able to do this so there is no problem with this pick..

    Someone asked the question if a left footed punter will create some issues for the other team as the ball spins the other way... just a thought 1 or 2 dropped punts can be a game changer, and to see some focus on special teams is welcome.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2010
  17. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The comment about your post wasn't because of the point of view, but because you did absolutely zero to tell us WHY you had that point of view.

    Patfanken detailed out a long and detailed post.

    No one says you have to agree with it, but if you disagree, why don't you ADD something to this board by telling everyone WHY you disagree?

    You simply fingerpainted your opinion of it. How 'bout telling us all WHY you think his post was "idiotic". Do you have the capability to do so? Otherswise, you are adding zilch to the discussion. Rather hypocritical for someone who wrote "This post is long on comedy and short on actual insight", no?
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2010
  18. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson In the Starting Line-Up

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    I agree with taking Mesko in Round 5. You can quibble that it is a "reach" for a Punter but it is a luxury that the Pats can aford thanks to BB acquiring additional draft picks year after year. The Pats had already drafted 6 players prior to the Mesko pick.

    BB was also criticized for taking the best place kicker in the draft (Gostowski) in round 4, but we beat all the other teams to the punch and got the player we desparately needed at that position.
     
  19. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    You're forgetting what we picked up at UDFA, and the cut vets we figure to pick up between now and the fall.
     
  20. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    #12 Jersey

    Here's a laugh if you haven't read this.....

    LeGarrette Blount: "I'm the best running back in this draft" | ProFootballTalk.com
     
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