Idle thoughts: Jets week edition

[OhExaulted1]

5. I wish the distinction would be be made more by the mediots, that while the Pats are always among the best teams in the league, they are NOT among the most physically individually talented. They are the epitome of what a great football team should be. Good players, but a better TEAM......and they should be celebrated for being able to accomplish this feat. To often we honor great individual talent, while minimizing the effect of great teamwork. Everything is framed as being a battle between individual players, while the game itself is so geared to promote the VALUES and BENEFITS of teamwork. Those things used to be important in the country

Instead whining and excuse making is now something that is acceptable, and sustained excellence built on intelligence, effort, focus discipline and teamwork is to be feared and hated. There is only one good thing about being old. I won't have to live long enough to watch selfishness and self interest become the core value of this country and our government be sold to the highest bidder. (Well actually I WILL see that happen if I live until 11/2016)

When I die, I want to die peacefully, in my sleep, like my grandpa did. Not like the screaming passengers in his car.
– Jack Handey Deep Thoughts

 

[PatsDeb]

My take on this game is that neither team has really "played anybody," and it's difficult to know what to expect. Yeah, the Jets are the No. 1 defense, but who have they played? Nobody good (and don't try to tell me Andrew Luck, week 1, was good). Yeah, we have the No. 1 offense, but who have we played? Nobody good either, really. Maybe Dallas (on D) and it was good that after a tough start the Pats got it figured out and went on their merry offensive way, but I don't know whether that was a good test against a good D. Yes, we have an untested, patchwork O line, but we've had that pretty much from the beginning of this season and we've been able to put up our usual good numbers on O.

I think what's going to happen on Sunday is the Jets D won't be as good as everybody thinks against tough competition, and the Pats O won't be as good as everybody thinks against tough competition. But, we are at home and BB always has extra motivation to beat the Jets, so I bet we squeak out another win against them. Could we lose a squeaker? Yes we could. Could we win in a blowout? Yes we could. I don't think those will happen though. Go Patriots.

 

[Danger Zone]

Let me see...IF both the Jets & the Bills have better "talent" than the Patriots, then what is our GM doing wrong managing the talent vs the competition?

When you pick in the 6th spot in every round and not the 32nd, sometimes the talent falls into your lap.

 

[patfanken]

In past seasons, I would go point by point mostly agreeing with you, Ken, while adding my own points. But I am loss at the political stuff in point 5. Nothing changed about the team nature of the game, nor politics.

Now I might have been tired as I wrote on this point, so let me try and make my point clearer.

It seems to me (and I'm an old guy), that when I was younger, teams and players didn't whine as much, EVERY penalty wasn't questioned, extended success wasn't looked on as a product of cheating. Teams like the Patriots would be universally admired because of the unselfish nature of their big stars, the teamwork and intelligence they showed on the field. Fans in general would like that they aren't the team with the most individual stars, but the team that played best together. Instead we are living in a generation where all the things that make the Patriots such a great and admirable organization are being ignored so people's selfish self interests can be catered to.

This relates to the way we conduct politics now. Forget about your individual politics leanings. We live in a political era where, like in the NFL, your selfish self interest matters more than the common good. The only things people care about is THEIR side winning, THEM getting theirs, and the hell with everyone else. That we cater to people's lowest common denominator, and create fear and scapegoats.

I think the political fact that best points this out is how BLATANTLY our government offices are for sale. It might have been a shameful secret in the past because money has always been part of politics, but never to this level, and (as studies have found) never so successfully. The most money really DOES win most elections.

So while the Koch Brothers have publicly announce they have BILLIONS of dollars available for candidates that will please them, and the bulk of the campaign money has been raised by an outrageously small number of families (something like 180), the fact that this is happening and is not even an issue is what angers be so. It has gone ignored by the same national media that greatly benefits from that incredible influx of money. What a shock.

I grew up in an era when Kennedy's Profiles in Courage was an important book. It highlighted several politicians who sacrificed their own power and popularity to do the RIGHT thing, instead of the easy one. We would be hard pressed to find anyone in the last dozen years to put in a book like that......on any side of the political fence.

I hate that what the Patriots have accomplished is being diminished by people so bereft of character that hating becomes a easier way to explain their own inadequacies. I hate even more the people who create that hate in order to benefit their own self interest and to unfairly create a competitive advantage. That is what the NFL, Colts, Ravens and Jets have done. And how the Pats are perceived by the haters is the result. Those signs in Indy were shameful, and I think there was a time in this country that people would have known better than to put them up.

In the same vein, the kind of characterless actions I've seen in being done by Goodell and his cronies, are the same sort of actions being taking on the political front. The scandal of campaign financing being the most symptomatic of the problem.

I certainly don't want to make this a political discussion. So just let me rant a bit here and feel free to ignore it.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

2012 was the last time the pats had a comfortable win over the jests. That was the butt fumble game lol. We have struggled somewat recently against their defense.

 

[mgteich]

Yup, the patriots have huge advantages at QB, TE, HC, OC, DC and experience in our systems. This isenough for us to be considered a better team, and a home favorite. But, no one would be surprised if the jets win.

Big game coming up this week. Right now, next to the Bronco game, these 2 Jets games are going to be our toughest tests.

1. Most Pats fans feel that we have dominated the Jets since the 2010 season playoff game, even though there have been a lot close games and a loss or two. I have been among them, but I'm not this year. So keeping that in mind lets play an exercise in "what if". Lets decide if you had to pick a starter among the 2 teams 44 starters which individuals would you pick.

2. Offense - It would probably surprise some people that when you have to make that pick, the only 2 Pats that everyone definitely would pick would be Brady at QB, and Gronk at TE. You might have picked Volmer at RT, but he's likely to be playing LT this week, and the likely starter at RT will be a 2nd year player who was on the PS 10 days ago. We all like our WR's but Marshall, Decker will be everyone's picks over Edelman and Amendola, because so many pick individual talent over productivity, and while our guys are productive, their guys are clearly more individually talented.

3. On Defense, we might have the best DL we've had here since Seymour was traded, but it doesn't have nearly the talent of the Jets DL. Their DB depth is also much better than ours with Revis/Cromartie/Skrine. And while we are searching scrap heaps for CB depth, the Jets are using top 15 picks as situational depth. (Milner). I would pick McCourty, Collins and Hightower as my Pats starters over the Jets starters, but I'm not sure Hightower will be playing. So that is 4-5 out of 22, and more likely 4 if the injury front goes negative.

4. So I wonder. Why is it that the Pats are so often considered among the more talented teams by the national media when it clearly isn't the case. I would consider both the Jets and Bills have more talented individual players position by position within our own division, let alone other teams like the Bengals, Broncos, Packers etc.

5. I wish the distinction would be be made more by the mediots, that while the Pats are always among the best teams in the league, they are NOT among the most physically individually talented. They are the epitome of what a great football team should be. Good players, but a better TEAM......and they should be celebrated for being able to accomplish this feat. To often we honor great individual talent, while minimizing the effect of great teamwork. Everything is framed as being a battle between individual players, while the game itself is so geared to promote the VALUES and BENEFITS of teamwork. Those things used to be important in the country

Instead whining and excuse making is now something that is acceptable, and sustained excellence built on intelligence, effort, focus discipline and teamwork is to be feared and hated. There is only one good thing about being old. I won't have to live long enough to watch selfishness and self interest become the core value of this country and our government be sold to the highest bidder. (Well actually I WILL see that happen if I live until 11/2016)


6. Think about it. The team who has the best DL in the league, with the best starting CB's and deepest secondary, will play an excellent RT, who is playing only his 2nd game at LT since his rookie year. A middle rotation of an UDFA 3rd year player, a rookie UDFA, and a 4th round rookie OG (plus the best of the rookie OLmen is hurt). At RT we have our PS graduate and I haven't got a clue who HIS back up is. Does this seem even a little bit fair. Yet it has hardly been a point of mention for the mediots covering this game, and barely even the fans.

7. Between the beauty of the McDaniels' scheme, Brady's brilliance, and the overall coaching competence, everyone seems to just ASSUME that the Pats offense will just magically produce 30+ points, like its a constitutional right. And they might very well do just that, but the fact that it is even a possibility against this kind of adversary should be the major story of this week......and its barely a whisper.

8. Now it isn't all doom and gloom. Revis might take out one WR, but whoever is left is going to be a hard match up for Cromartie. Lewis will make it tough on the Jets LB's and Gronk is basically unfair to the league.

9. Bowles has been an agressive biltzer since he's had control of a defense with Az. His Jets team is leading the league this year as well at 50% of the time. Tom Brady is the best QB in the league at defeating blitzes. IIRC his QB rating is higher against blitzes than against base defenses. So while, teams have gotten to Brady in every game, The odds of Brady moving the ball against the blitz should be high, even with the no name OL. But this is game Brady is going to HAVE to be at his best.

10. For the conspiracy theorists, this is the perfect game for the NYJFL to throw a game the Jets way. Because the Jets will play aggressive man to man, the Pats are going to HAVE to bring out their crossing pattern game, and I won't be surprised to see, the officials will be looking of OPI. Watch for 2+ OPI calls go against the Pats this game, for some very weak looking calls that are being called no where else.

11. In there very entertaining "around league podcast" on the NFLN, the boys were asked in their mailbox segment, if you could take Brady and Bellechick, and the worst roster in the NFL, could you be a playoff contender? When they started to think about it, they came up with the Jags at first, and then when they thought about their WR's and Thomas at TE decided Brady might have better than what he has now. The same thing happened when they brought up the Buc's. The basic feeling was they wouldn't be playoff contenders, they'd be superbowl contenders. Then they made fun of resident Pats' fan, Greg Rosenthal, and his "throne of ease", because the Pats turn every move into a good one.

Do you agree? Brady and Bellichick and ANY current roster, are you an immediate winner? I do, but I'd have to add Josh to that equation. What do you think?

12. Chris Ivory IS one of the better RB's in the NFL this year. I have always liked him, even back when he was with the Saints. He's been a very productive runner for the Jets, and looks better this year. However with the addition of Hicks to go along with Siliga and Branch, I think the Pats have enough meat to keep the Jets running game under control.

13. I believe the Pats will win 65% of the 3rd and 7 or mores with the Jets, and the key to that will be stopping the Jets to under 2ypc on first down. It won't be easy. Having Hightower will be big. At least he's making an attempt to practice this week. However a rib is a hard thing to overcome and play a physical position like LB

14. This is the best team that Fitzpatrick has had around him in his career.....by far. I don't think he will ever be an elite QB, but he can be a successful one as long as he plays within his limits. He as always been streaky, and sometimes that brand of streaking can be good.....but too often bad. We don't know what the story will be on Sunday.

15. I don't recall how many times the Pats have swept the AFCE, but it hasn't been many, perhaps only 2 or 3. So beating a good team like the Jets will be more important because the game will be at home. Losing on Sunday will make winning in NJ even more difficult in December.

16. I don't see us putting 8 in the box to start the game. I feel Patricia will want to see if they can "control" the run game without opening up Decker and Marshal to our smaller DB's. I see us using 3 S's as our base

17. So while the Pats couldn't have the injury situation go worse the last 2 weeks, the Jets are in relative good shape, in fact I read somewhere that they are the 2nd healthiest team in the league at this point.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

I want a comfortable win on sunday. Would be nice for a change.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Ken has clearly never heard of George $oros or Tom $teyer in politics

 

[patchick]

When you pick in the 6th spot in every round and not the 32nd, sometimes the talent falls into your lap.

Honestly, why doesn't anybody get on BB-the-GM's case about constantly picking at the end of every round? It's terrible strategy!

Anyway...it's also worth noting that the Jets pay bigger in free agency. Try counting the number of starters on each team who have previously been starters elsewhere. It's pretty amazing. (Not coincidentally, the Patriots are in FAR better cap position for next season).

 

[aluminum seats]

Now I might have been tired as I wrote on this point, so let me try and make my point clearer.

It seems to me (and I'm an old guy), that when I was younger, teams and players didn't whine as much, EVERY penalty wasn't questioned, extended success wasn't looked on as a product of cheating. Teams like the Patriots would be universally admired because of the unselfish nature of their big stars, the teamwork and intelligence they showed on the field. Fans in general would like that they aren't the team with the most individual stars, but the team that played best together. Instead we are living in a generation where all the things that make the Patriots such a great and admirable organization are being ignored so people's selfish self interests can be catered to.

This relates to the way we conduct politics now. Forget about your individual politics leanings. We live in a political era where, like in the NFL, your selfish self interest matters more than the common good. The only things people care about is THEIR side winning, THEM getting theirs, and the hell with everyone else. That we cater to people's lowest common denominator, and create fear and scapegoats.

I think the political fact that best points this out is how BLATANTLY our government offices are for sale. It might have been a shameful secret in the past because money has always been part of politics, but never to this level, and (as studies have found) never so successfully. The most money really DOES win most elections.

So while the Koch Brothers have publicly announce they have BILLIONS of dollars available for candidates that will please them, and the bulk of the campaign money has been raised by an outrageously small number of families (something like 180), the fact that this is happening and is not even an issue is what angers be so. It has gone ignored by the same national media that greatly benefits from that incredible influx of money. What a shock.

I grew up in an era when Kennedy's Profiles in Courage was an important book. It highlighted several politicians who sacrificed their own power and popularity to do the RIGHT thing, instead of the easy one. We would be hard pressed to find anyone in the last dozen years to put in a book like that......on any side of the political fence.

I hate that what the Patriots have accomplished is being diminished by people so bereft of character that hating becomes a easier way to explain their own inadequacies. I hate even more the people who create that hate in order to benefit their own self interest and to unfairly create a competitive advantage. That is what the NFL, Colts, Ravens and Jets have done. And how the Pats are perceived by the haters is the result. Those signs in Indy were shameful, and I think there was a time in this country that people would have known better than to put them up.

In the same vein, the kind of characterless actions I've seen in being done by Goodell and his cronies, are the same sort of actions being taking on the political front. The scandal of campaign financing being the most symptomatic of the problem.

I certainly don't want to make this a political discussion. So just let me rant a bit here and feel free to ignore it.

I see you feel very strongly about this post....

 

[patsfan13]

So basically you are saying the Andrews is the same as Mangold, etc? Now I have stated on many occasions that 90-95% of most NFL players are similarly athletically gifted. So I get what you are trying to point out (I think).

However when your OL started with 2 key injuries (Stork, Wendell). They had a huge disadvantage in having to play 3 rookies and a very inexperienced UDFA in the middle, and then within 2 games lose 2 of your top 3 OT's; you are likely to have a big problem on the OL.....even if you weren't playing the best DL in the league.

Given our system and coaching abilities, we could very well overcome the extraordinary adversity the last 2 weeks have brought upon us. And if it doesn't I think we can eventually deal with it as the season progresses. However what I still can't understand is the level that both the mediots and fans seem to be blithefully ignoring that it exists.

Well with the salary cap you can either be deep or have a lot of talent in the starting group.

However as I am sure you know the NFL is a war of attrition over the course of a 16 game season. BB knows this and builds a roster accordingly. So I don't agree we are less talented overall, just that the talent is allocated in a way to allow the team to overcome the INEVITABLE injuries.

 

[rochrist]

Big game coming up this week. Right now, next to the Bronco game, these 2 Jets games are going to be our toughest tests.

1. Most Pats fans feel that we have dominated the Jets since the 2010 season playoff game, even though there have been a lot close games and a loss or two. I have been among them, but I'm not this year. So keeping that in mind lets play an exercise in "what if". Lets decide if you had to pick a starter among the 2 teams 44 starters which individuals would you pick.

2. Offense - It would probably surprise some people that when you have to make that pick, the only 2 Pats that everyone definitely would pick would be Brady at QB, and Gronk at TE. You might have picked Volmer at RT, but he's likely to be playing LT this week, and the likely starter at RT will be a 2nd year player who was on the PS 10 days ago. We all like our WR's but Marshall, Decker will be everyone's picks over Edelman and Amendola, because so many pick individual talent over productivity, and while our guys are productive, their guys are clearly more individually talented.

3. On Defense, we might have the best DL we've had here since Seymour was traded, but it doesn't have nearly the talent of the Jets DL. Their DB depth is also much better than ours with Revis/Cromartie/Skrine. And while we are searching scrap heaps for CB depth, the Jets are using top 15 picks as situational depth. (Milner). I would pick McCourty, Collins and Hightower as my Pats starters over the Jets starters, but I'm not sure Hightower will be playing. So that is 4-5 out of 22, and more likely 4 if the injury front goes negative.

4. So I wonder. Why is it that the Pats are so often considered among the more talented teams by the national media when it clearly isn't the case. I would consider both the Jets and Bills have more talented individual players position by position within our own division, let alone other teams like the Bengals, Broncos, Packers etc.

5. I wish the distinction would be be made more by the mediots, that while the Pats are always among the best teams in the league, they are NOT among the most physically individually talented. They are the epitome of what a great football team should be. Good players, but a better TEAM......and they should be celebrated for being able to accomplish this feat. To often we honor great individual talent, while minimizing the effect of great teamwork. Everything is framed as being a battle between individual players, while the game itself is so geared to promote the VALUES and BENEFITS of teamwork. Those things used to be important in the country

Instead whining and excuse making is now something that is acceptable, and sustained excellence built on intelligence, effort, focus discipline and teamwork is to be feared and hated. There is only one good thing about being old. I won't have to live long enough to watch selfishness and self interest become the core value of this country and our government be sold to the highest bidder. (Well actually I WILL see that happen if I live until 11/2016)


6. Think about it. The team who has the best DL in the league, with the best starting CB's and deepest secondary, will play an excellent RT, who is playing only his 2nd game at LT since his rookie year. A middle rotation of an UDFA 3rd year player, a rookie UDFA, and a 4th round rookie OG (plus the best of the rookie OLmen is hurt). At RT we have our PS graduate and I haven't got a clue who HIS back up is. Does this seem even a little bit fair. Yet it has hardly been a point of mention for the mediots covering this game, and barely even the fans.

7. Between the beauty of the McDaniels' scheme, Brady's brilliance, and the overall coaching competence, everyone seems to just ASSUME that the Pats offense will just magically produce 30+ points, like its a constitutional right. And they might very well do just that, but the fact that it is even a possibility against this kind of adversary should be the major story of this week......and its barely a whisper.

8. Now it isn't all doom and gloom. Revis might take out one WR, but whoever is left is going to be a hard match up for Cromartie. Lewis will make it tough on the Jets LB's and Gronk is basically unfair to the league.

9. Bowles has been an agressive biltzer since he's had control of a defense with Az. His Jets team is leading the league this year as well at 50% of the time. Tom Brady is the best QB in the league at defeating blitzes. IIRC his QB rating is higher against blitzes than against base defenses. So while, teams have gotten to Brady in every game, The odds of Brady moving the ball against the blitz should be high, even with the no name OL. But this is game Brady is going to HAVE to be at his best.

10. For the conspiracy theorists, this is the perfect game for the NYJFL to throw a game the Jets way. Because the Jets will play aggressive man to man, the Pats are going to HAVE to bring out their crossing pattern game, and I won't be surprised to see, the officials will be looking of OPI. Watch for 2+ OPI calls go against the Pats this game, for some very weak looking calls that are being called no where else.

11. In there very entertaining "around league podcast" on the NFLN, the boys were asked in their mailbox segment, if you could take Brady and Bellechick, and the worst roster in the NFL, could you be a playoff contender? When they started to think about it, they came up with the Jags at first, and then when they thought about their WR's and Thomas at TE decided Brady might have better than what he has now. The same thing happened when they brought up the Buc's. The basic feeling was they wouldn't be playoff contenders, they'd be superbowl contenders. Then they made fun of resident Pats' fan, Greg Rosenthal, and his "throne of ease", because the Pats turn every move into a good one.

Do you agree? Brady and Bellichick and ANY current roster, are you an immediate winner? I do, but I'd have to add Josh to that equation. What do you think?

12. Chris Ivory IS one of the better RB's in the NFL this year. I have always liked him, even back when he was with the Saints. He's been a very productive runner for the Jets, and looks better this year. However with the addition of Hicks to go along with Siliga and Branch, I think the Pats have enough meat to keep the Jets running game under control.

13. I believe the Pats will win 65% of the 3rd and 7 or mores with the Jets, and the key to that will be stopping the Jets to under 2ypc on first down. It won't be easy. Having Hightower will be big. At least he's making an attempt to practice this week. However a rib is a hard thing to overcome and play a physical position like LB

14. This is the best team that Fitzpatrick has had around him in his career.....by far. I don't think he will ever be an elite QB, but he can be a successful one as long as he plays within his limits. He as always been streaky, and sometimes that brand of streaking can be good.....but too often bad. We don't know what the story will be on Sunday.

15. I don't recall how many times the Pats have swept the AFCE, but it hasn't been many, perhaps only 2 or 3. So beating a good team like the Jets will be more important because the game will be at home. Losing on Sunday will make winning in NJ even more difficult in December.

16. I don't see us putting 8 in the box to start the game. I feel Patricia will want to see if they can "control" the run game without opening up Decker and Marshal to our smaller DB's. I see us using 3 S's as our base

17. So while the Pats couldn't have the injury situation go worse the last 2 weeks, the Jets are in relative good shape, in fact I read somewhere that they are the 2nd healthiest team in the league at this point.

You're vastly over valuing the Jets talent and undervaluing the Pats talent. Plus, wait, /Decker/ over JE????

 

[DarrylS]

The Jets might have better individual players, but the Pats have a better "team"... if there were eleven 1-1 competitions I might worry more, but we clearly have a better HC and are smarter than most other NFL teams..

The Patriots also have more depth and are built for this ongoing dynasty.. not just a short period of time.

I do respect the Jets, but do not necessarily fear them..

 

[boodog]

Let me see...IF both the Jets & the Bills have better "talent" than the Patriots, then what is our GM doing wrong managing the talent vs the competition?

I wondered the same thing. I think some are selling the talent on our team a little short. BB values team play, football intelligence, preparation habits and situational awareness which all contribute to make critical plays at critical times in the game. Remember recently, BB in a presser called out the names of players that he categorized as GREAT. He added, "they played in big games, how they consistently showed up an made big plays and game-winning plays".

Some of them jump off the page in terms of athletic measurables, but there others that do not. Here is the list from his presser - you decide. "Ty Law, Malloy, Otis Smith, Rodney Harrison, Bruschi, Izzo, McGinest, Vrabel, Seymour, Matt Light, Andruzzi, Steve Neal, Branch, Troy Brown, Brady, Antowain Smith, Kevin Faulk, Corey Dillon, Lonnie Paxton, Vinatieri"

Let me flip around for you....
If you asked BB to choose between his current team or the Jets team with Brady, I would hazard a guess that he would keep his team.

 

[IndianPat]

Ken has clearly never heard of George $oros or Tom $teyer in politics

I have heard of them. Also Sheldon Adelson. And many other Oligarchs of this great country that have created a fake left-right divide making a mockery of representative government which panders only to SELECT special interests.

 

[PScottman]

Nothing changed about the team nature of the game

Fantasy football didn't change the team nature of the game? Individual marketing (name on the back of the jersey sales versus name on the back) didn't change the team nature of the game? Massive salary differences between positions (such as the decline of the running back and rise of the WR in salary scale) didn't change the nature of the game?

If culture, or in this case sub-culture, isn't influenced by these above changes, then why do we have players such as Suh and Hardy sacrificing team good for individual glory? "Just throw me the damn ball" ring any bells?

Any element of a system, has influence within, and to that same system. To think otherwise is shortsighted and frankly, illogical.

 

[patfanken]

Ken has clearly never heard of George $oros or Tom $teyer in politics

Cmon PWP, this isn't about whether the money comes from the left or right. It's about that money runs it all so completely and openly. Voters no longer count, its how much money is your campaign raising. It's all about the donors.....and the donors aren't giving that money away for nothing.

.....and lets be honest PWP about how much more the right gives than the left.

 

[patfanken]

.....and back to football. The news on the injury front keeps on getting worse as each day goes on. Being without Sheard, Cannon, and the EIGHT other "questionables" is starting to get me down. I'm not even sure if I even want Hightower and Lewis to play. This is a long season and I don't fear playing from behind for a bit this year. The Jets time to get banged up is inevitable, just like our time to get more healthy is as well.

Yet still the news media takes much account of it. IMHO a win on Sunday would be a lot bigger accomplishment than they are making out. As of tonight most are still acting as if a win is assured, even if it looks to be closer than expected. However having so many down this week BOTH on offense and defense is definitely daunting. What I hate is that if we manage to survive this week with a win, they aren't going to get the full credit for what they have done.

 

[Fencer]

Ken,

You are perhaps over-glorifying the past. Profiles in Courage highlighted 5 or 6 men over a long period of time. It was published in the era of McCarthyism. And it had a ghost-writer.

 

[Joker]

you're showin' yur age ,Granpa...