Idle thoughts- It's the defense.....stupid

[Mack Herron]

I disagree with this. It's largely BECAUSE of the defense that New England was even in the game. Collins' scoop and score was huge in helping compensate for the anemic offense; otherwise, the Pats score a grand total of 13. Playing without both starting safeties and still holding a healthy Jets offense to 20 in regulation was about as good as could be hoped for.

16 first downs and 284 yards of total offense was their worst offensive production of the year, and likely the reason BB trusted his D more than the offense in OT. Both sides of the ball suffered from important injuries, but the defense allowed 21 points in regulation (and scored 7) which is certainly respectable, while the offense scored 13 (and turned the ball over), which is woeful. Having scored 30 points only once in the last 8 games, the offense is at a historic low point.

 

[PP2]

The glaring omission in this thread was our third down conversion rate- 1 out of 10. This is by and large a byproduct of not having Amendola or Edelman on the field.

Neither Martin or Harper were really respected and this allowed them to double down on or cheat to Gronk and Lafell where possible.

 

[AzorianPats]

The big question that will be answered in the divisional playoff round will be how effective all our injured players will be when they are back. If Jules, Dola, Hightower, DMac & Co. can continue where they left off we will be fine and should end up in the SB even with this OL. I doubt that it will be that seamless at the beginning but have no idea what to expect.



I also didn't enjoy watching McD/BB being that conservative at the end but mentally it was very similar to what QBs are asked to do when their receivers are covered.. you don't try to force things but throw balls away "to live another day". I said it in another thread but just a few months ago we were complaining about playcalling being too aggressive and resulting in turnovers before HT.



Because in that situation you are only down 7 points and have an entire second half in front of you in which your opponent can throw an INT, fumble the ball or shoot themselves in some other way into their own foot. Just think about how we lost to the Eagles.. you can win in many ways and keeping the game close with strategic decisions when you feel like you can't really move the ball well is not an inherently bad choice.

Do I like it ? No. Do I understand why it happened given the circumstances at that time ? Yep.



A lot has already been said about missing DMac and Chung and the trickle effect it had on coverages in the secondary so I will not rehash that. Similarly, Hightower being a shell of himself due to his injury also leaves us vulnerable against the run.

However, what I want to add is that once again Chandler Jones disappeared in a game where we needed him to step up if he really wants to be paid elite money. Maybe this was all scheme and he gets those unthankful assignments from BB that don't translate to visible plays. But from my point of view the last four games were really a good description of his season. When everything goes well like against the Titans he shows up on the stats sheet and makes plays but in the games where we need some spark from the pass rush (OT vs. Denver, 2HT vs. Eagles and yesterday) he has no relevant plays to give.



If you ask me the issue is manifold. First of all there is another trickle down effect in terms of coverage because we are missing Jules and Dola. The Jets can double Gronk and still have the advantage in terms of covering up the intermediate pass game. Then LaFell is someone who thrives on passes that need a little bit of setup time (intermediate/long) and the current OL configuration can't give Brady this time consistently. And because we can't give Brady that time the defense also doesn't need to respect those routes as much and crowds the intermediate routes even more. Finally, nobody respects our run game which again helps their coverage.

The situation was so bad yesterday especially in the first half that Brady didn't even have enough time to try to let a receiver "make a play" but was pressured almost immediately. It all starts in the trenches and we are losing those fights consistently on offense.



I am still shocked/surprised how strict the league is about the exact phrasing of a sentence at the coin toss compared how completely lackadaisical they are about other rules. While I agree that Blakeman made the correct decision in terms of the rules, I thought that when Slater said "we want to kick that way" it was clear that the intent was to kick into a specific direction.

In a league where players get their placement corrected if e.g. they lineup above the center by referees on extra points/field goals it is a bit weird that saying "we want to kick that way" is taken at face value and not for its intent. But again, that's on us and in a weird way I am happy that it happened in an ultimately meaningless game because we won't see that mistake ever again.

Luuked, you are right about Chandler Jones. Ive been saying this for awhile. Hes a front runner. He'll rack up multiple sacks against weak opposition, but when we need it he'll give you a goose egg.

Does that mean he sucks? Of course not, but hes not our most consistent DE, thats Ninko. And hes not our best pass rusher, cuz quite frankly thats Sheard.

You'll have a poster here that thinks he gets doubled every play, thats wrong cuz he doesn't.

 

[The Brandon Five]

10. I thought this was one of the best officiated games of the season, and I want to publicly apologize to Beakman for thinking even for a second that he screwed over the Pats on the coin flip. Clearly he knew that BB wanted to kick off and it was Slater who was confused thinking he could choose to KO AND which direction to kick.

Isn't that what happened in the Denver game in OT in 2013? Wasn't that the entire reason we decided to kick off then?

 

[FibSeq13478]

Isn't that what happened in the Denver game in OT in 2013? Wasn't that the entire reason we decided to kick off then?

I think we chose the end zone to defend after winning the toss and they elected to receive

 

[luuked]

Luuked, you are right about Chandler Jones. Ive been saying this for awhile. Hes a front runner. He'll rack up multiple sacks against weak opposition, but when we need it he'll give you a goose egg.

Does that mean he sucks? Of course not, but hes not our most consistent DE, thats Ninko. And hes not our best pass rusher, cuz quite frankly thats Sheard.

You'll have a poster here that thinks he gets doubled every play, thats wrong cuz he doesn't.

I agree. And until someone takes some All22 gametape and proves that Jones is being consistently doubled or has other assignments I will go saying that he is not a priority (relative to Collins, Hightower and Sheard) to resign as a FA.

 

[FibSeq13478]

However, what I want to add is that once again Chandler Jones disappeared in a game where we needed him to step up if he really wants to be paid elite money. Maybe this was all scheme and he gets those unthankful assignments from BB that don't translate to visible plays. But from my point of view the last four games were really a good description of his season. When everything goes well like against the Titans he shows up on the stats sheet and makes plays but in the games where we need some spark from the pass rush (OT vs. Denver, 2HT vs. Eagles and yesterday) he has no relevant plays to give.

He seems to disappear against good left tackles (Ferguson, Jason Peters, Duane Brown).

I am still shocked/surprised how strict the league is about the exact phrasing of a sentence at the coin toss compared how completely lackadaisical they are about other rules. While I agree that Blakeman made the correct decision in terms of the rules, I thought that when Slater said "we want to kick that way" it was clear that the intent was to kick into a specific direction.

That confusion was entirely Slater's fault - Kind of embarrassing for an all pro veteran to be confused like that.

 

[luuked]

That confusion was entirely Slater's fault - Kind of embarrassing for an all pro veteran to be confused like that.

True that it was his fault.

I was only pointing out that I was a bit surprised about how strict the ref was about the phrasing. He could have guided Slater by saying "You can't decide to kick and choose a direction at the same time" when Slater clearly said "kick this way". I know it is not his job to do that but then at the same time referees warn and guide players all the time if they e.g. lined-up over the center before a FG/XP.

 

[Nunchucks]

In the first half, the Jets picked on Leonard #34....The Patriots adjusted and put Coleman out there in the second half and it made a huge difference. In overtime, the Patriots had the Jets stopped, a ticky tack PI call on Butler was the difference.

That is how close they were to coming back and winning this game....the last Patriots drive...two 4th down plays converted, one a 4th and 9.....come on people...they played heroic today.

 

[The Brandon Five]

In the first half, the Jets picked on Leonard #34....The Patriots adjusted and put Coleman out there in the second half and it made a huge difference. In overtime, the Patriots had the Jets stopped, a ticky tack PI call on Butler was the difference.

That is how close they were to coming back and winning this game....the last Patriots drive...two 4th down plays converted, one a 4th and 9.....come on people...they played heroic today.

The biggest play of that drive was a blatant pick play.

 

[luuked]

In overtime, the Patriots had the Jets stopped, a ticky tack PI call on Butler was the difference.

That happened at the end of regulation and not in OT. In overtime the first play got Richards injured, and the second was already the long play by Enunwa.

You are thinking about the sequence immediately after the TD, where on second down Ninkovich knocked the ball up in the air and we almost came away with an INT, and then on third down with 1:22 on the clock we had them stopped at their own 26 yd line.

 

[Kjmass1]

True that it was his fault.

I was only pointing out that I was a bit surprised about how strict the ref was about the phrasing. He could have guided Slater by saying "You can't decide to kick and choose a direction at the same time" when Slater clearly said "kick this way". I know it is not his job to do that but then at the same time referees warn and guide players all the time if they e.g. lined-up over the center before a FG/XP.

Maybe BB thought he wanted to defer, Jets elect to receive, then Pats pick the direction? BB knows he can't elect to kick and pick direction.

 

[luuked]

Maybe BB thought he wanted to defer, Jets elect to receive, then Pats pick the direction? BB knows he can't elect to kick and pick direction.

Quite honestly I just think that Slater was too careless with his phrasing not realizing that by saying "kicking" first and only then following up with a direction it would prevent him from selecting the direction.

In the end the entire thing is anyway just another shiny new object that people will talk about but it actually had no effect on the outcome. Since according to people that were in the stadium there was almost no wind I doubt that getting it right and kicking in the other direction would have made a gigantic difference.

 

[Kjmass1]

Quite honestly I just think that Slater was too careless with his phrasing not realizing that by saying "kicking" first and only then following up with a direction it would prevent him from selecting the direction.

One option is he should have said we want to defend this goal. Jets would then have option to kick or receive and obviously would kick.

 

[Tunescribe]

I don't disagree, except that this was one of those times where we needed the Defense to "win the game", I thought they did a decent job after the first drive of the 2nd half....UNTIL the OT.

That was when the defense HAD to make a stop. That was the job they were entrusted to do, when BB chose to KO. they failed. Also the kind of defense that "wins" games doesn't allow over 450 yds of offense. Hence, while they didn't play "badly", they didn't do their job either, which was to stop the Jets and give the Pats a chance to win it with a FG.

So, if the Pats received on OT and the offense went three and out, would you have titled this thread, "It's the offense, stupid"? After all, the kind of offense that "wins" games doesn't accumulate just 284 net yards.

As I posted earlier in this thread, I think the Patriots deserve all-around praise for being more competitive than they had a right to be in this game given their state of ill-health.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I am still shocked/surprised how strict the league is about the exact phrasing of a sentence at the coin toss compared how completely lackadaisical they are about other
In a league where players get their placement corrected if e.g. they lineup above the center by referees on extra points/field goals it is a bit weird that saying "we want to kick that way" is taken at face value and not for its intent. But again, that's on us and in a weird way I am happy that it happened in an ultimately meaningless game because we won't see that mistake ever again.

Slater expressed two intents - an intent to kick and an intent to pick a direction. He's only allowed to have one intent. And the rulebook says whatever is first, wins. It's almost exactly what happened to Abner Haynes in 1962. He was told by his coach to pick a direction so he said "we'll kick to the clock". Once he said "we'll kick" he made his binding choice and the rest of the sentence was moot.

And I think any objective person, when faced with the sentence "we'll kick that way", would say the primary intent being expressed is to kick.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

And yes, in the 2013 Denver game NE took the wind and then DEN chose to receive. Theoretically DEN could have chosen to kick off, though in that case it would have been very unlikely as they had already lost the wind.

 

[luuked]

Slater expressed two intents - an intent to kick and an intent to pick a direction. He's only allowed to have one intent. And the rulebook says whatever is first, wins. It's almost exactly what happened to Abner Haynes in 1962. He was told by his coach to pick a direction so he said "we'll kick to the clock". Once he said "we'll kick" he made his binding choice and the rest of the sentence was moot.

And I think any objective person, when faced with the sentence "we'll kick that way", would say the primary intent being expressed is to kick.

Except the second intent implies the first one. They are not independent of each other.

Anyway, its a moot point.. I am sure this will not come up again as long as BB is coach here.

 

[everlong]

3. I really thought the defense let the team down, hence the title. 20 points SHOULD have been enough to win the game. There were stretches in the game were the defense played VERY well (like for the entire 4th quarter), and there were times where no pass rush was accompanied by bad coverage and the expected results occurred.

The defense provided 7 of those 20 points so if you X-out 7 points you could say the offense should have been able to provide 14 points to win the game even in it's tattered state.

 

[1960Pats]

Once the Pats bounced back.....again in the 4th quarter and tied the game (including 2 fourth down plays). I really didn't care who won the game. Overall I had thought the Jets had played better, but they should have played better. They were at home, with a better roster, and a more desperate situation. Still the game was there for taking, but in the end the Jets made the plays and won a game they should have won. Fortunately for us, it was a game we could afford to lose. So lets break this down into the things I liked and what I didn't. plus some general observations.

1. OK let's get this over with. Let's start with the OL. We have now lost 4 of the 5 offensive linemen that started the superbowl last season. Who goes through THAT kind of turmoil and still wins 12 games. Want to know why BB chose to KO in OT, just look at the OL we had out there for the game tying drive. LT- Stork, LG, Mason, C Anderson, RG Jackson, RT- Cannon. Once again we had our #5 LT on the field. Plus 3 rookies, a guy playing totally out of position, and a journeyman back up. That was the OL going against one the best DL's in the league.

During this game I saw guys get beat. I saw guys block the wrong guys to let guys in. I saw soft and hesitant play. Face it, the OL is a mess, and when you combine that with the lack of options outside, and no running game, it is not a good situation for the offense.

The problem here is I have no idea how they can clean it up in the next 3 weeks, so there can be some semblance of stability and dependability for our playoff run. Let us face it, we are starting 3 rookies along the OL along with some other guys like Stork who is in a 2nd year that he missed half of now playing out of position. It is no wonder it is a mess. It makes no sense to call out individual players and say they suck, because the entire situation is so unsettled that to blame any one player at this point is pure folly and totally unfair.

Assuming Volmer is gone for the playoffs (and even if by some miracle he isn't) Josh and Brady are going to have to limit the playbook so they can simplify what they doing along the OL so we can help those kids with the mental side of the game, so that they can relax and get physical. I will be interesting to see how Waddle did in his time out there. Clearly asking him to be a LT after about 14 days with the team was a reach of major proportions, but I wonder if he showed enough positive signs that will look good for next season.

Make no mistake, I believe this OL will eventually become a very good one. But it will take time, and we really don't have any of that right now. We are just going to have to make due with what we have. It will be a coaching job of epic proportions that isn't going to solve itself by have DA and Edelman come back (though it would sure help some)

2. I hated that we essentially conceded the last 2 minutes of first half. Like I said in the game thread, if we aren't playing to win, then lets get Brady and Gronk out of there and let someone else get a shot. I thought it sent the wrong message to the team.

That being said, I can perfectly understand why he did it there, and kicking off in the OT. They were all decent strategic moves.....just not ones I wanted to see. I'm sure Brady wasn't happy either. The question I would ask is, "why be so conservative? we had nothing really to lose. Let it all hang out and if if we lose, we lose"

3. I really thought the defense let the team down, hence the title. 20 points SHOULD have been enough to win the game. There were stretches in the game were the defense played VERY well (like for the entire 4th quarter), and there were times where no pass rush was accompanied by bad coverage and the expected results occurred..

3b. I need to have an explanation for the reason why Brandon LaFell was completely ignored in this game plan. One catch and as far as I can remember only one other target. What's up with that? Gronk was another guy who was conspicuously under targeted for this game. Whether it was by choice or the way the game played out I don't know. But if Brady has one failing, it is that he doesn't do what so many other QB's in this league are doing more and more, which is give their receivers a chance to "make a play", even when they are covered. Now I don't want him to turn into Joe Flacco, but there are times, like today, when you just have to let it happen. Days when you aren't going to be able to successfully run 12-14 play drives down the field.

4. The play that really optimized the day for me was the 3rd and long where Richards missed a tackle that would have forced the Jets to kick, and instead the drive continued and the Jets scored. This wasn't a matter of a great move by the receiver. Richards made the hit with perfect form, but didn't wrap well, and control his body enough to bring the man down. That happened a number of times in this game. Good tackling HAD been a hallmark of this year's team. This afternoon, for some reason, it wasn't.

THE THINGS I LIKED.

6. When the Pats were getting torched with the Jet running earl in the game, I wrote in the game thread that I felt these were just excellently schemed plays against a defense the Jets were expecting, and Matty P would, after a few series, vastly improve the execution. The stats will show that the Jets ran for over 140 yards for the day, but only had about 40 in the second half (and that's if you include Fitz's 13). Once they knew what was being done to them, they really did close it down.

Kudo's to the Jets for finding the inherent weaknesses in certain Pats defensive schemes, but Kudo's to the Pats for adjusting and shutting them down starting around the 2nd half of the 2nd quarter.

6. I liked that the Pats once again showed the mental toughness to not only overcome the injuries coming into the game, but to also bounce back from the huge loss of Volmer early in first quarter. They certainly handled it a lot better than I did. Ironically it was the injury to Richards that finally did them in, because it was 2 DB's (and I don't know who) running into each other that allowed the Jet receiver to break open for 50 yds on the pick play.

7. I liked the job Keshawn Martin did. 7 catches and around 70 yards is a good day. I also like the way Bolden caught the ball. He is the archetype "solid" RB in this league. The epitome of a "do your job" guy. I sincerely hope that by the playoffs Steven Jackson will have taken most of his snaps but if he winds up being our main RB during this playoff run, then I'm good with it.

8. It will go unnoticed by most observers, but Ryan Allen had a great day today. His kicking helped keep the Pats close at a time where the Jets could have broken the game open.

1. It wasn't just the OL either. The Pats were playing without their top two RBs and top 2 WR's.

2. I also hated the way they didn't even try to make a run at the end of the half, even if only for a FG, but I completely understand why they wanted to kick off instead of take the ball in OT. If they had stopped the Jets they would have only needed a FG to win, and had the best kicker to do it. One bad play took that away.

3&4. As for the defense, once again we have to look at the injuries. Both starting safeties and our main man in the middle were gone. I thought they did ok.

3b. Forget about LaFell and the long passes. For a man his size he simply isn't strong enough to take those passes away from the defenders. If you wanted to see the best example of that all you had to do was catch the game winning TD in the Atlant/Carolina game. Julio Jones caught a heave that was well underthrown into double coverage and he just leaped up and took it off the helmet of Keuchly and ran it in for a TD. There is nobody on this team that can do that.

As for the things that I liked, it was the fact that in spite of the incredible amount of injuries to both sides of the ball, and that they were playing a team that really needed the win and were playing them at their place, the Pats once again came back to tie the game at the end. Once again when the team needed it most Tom Brady managed to get them down the field, in spite of the fact that he was getting next to no time to pass the ball and with no running game. Amazing.