Idle Thoughts – Post Revis Edition

[makoute]

No, they're significantly over investing in great talent. That simply doesn't hold when building a championship roster. The Patriots will continue to add to their roster with unsexy, highly productive additions.

The thing is the Pats can add unsexy additions, because they have a very sexy QB, the Jets and Bills do not have to worry about paying a QB for a good 3-4 years, unless they would be able to trade for one, and the ones that you are likely to get in trades are generally not that good.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I really wished they kept Browner..but it makes sense i guess..i just hate it all around.

 

[sambam94]

Is it too much to ask for this team to just "go for it" while we still have the GOAT at QB? If we lost Revis over 5m, that is not smart..IMO...

 

[Sicilian]

heh, elite safety that made plays...ours just stops QBs from throwing his way....They also had solid corner play and an elite pass rush.

Ah, so you're one of those people who devalues McCourty. I disagree, which probably makes our conflicting opinions on Revis' impact more defined.

 

[Nunchucks]

Not to be confrontational, Nun, but the Pats have a lot of luck crushing Andrew Luck BEFORE last season. And I would be willing to guess the Pats have experimented a bit with man coverages BEFORE Darelle Revis joined the team. They might even play it some in 2015 with the players they have available.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but it seemed you were falling into the trap that Revis was the key to any success the Pats had on defense. While you can't deny he had a significant impact, his value has been blown out of the realm of reality by a rabid media who ALWAYS wants to explain everything, good or bad, as being the responsibility of one person.

If his impact was THAT big, why is it that his teams have only been to the playoff 2 or 3 times in a 8 year career BEFORE he got to the Pats. If having great shut down CB's are so universally important, why have we put up 40+ points so consistently on a Colt team that has 2 very good CB's.

You see Nun, putting together a winning TEAM is a lot more complex than that. The decisions are often messy, and not easy, and you never know if you were right or wrong until October or November of the next year. That's why I won't bother listening to the mediots for the next few weeks, because you and I already know what they will be saying. Listening to them would be a kind of self flagellation....and quite frankly I'm not into pain.

Patriots had success with Talib against the Colts. The Patriots need to have players to use a man-to-man scheme....whether that is Revis or somebody else....that part doesn't matter...the Colts DBs were not very good the last few years.

 

[Nunchucks]

Ah, so you're one of those people who devalues McCourty. I disagree, which probably makes our conflicting opinions on Revis' impact more defined.

I like McCourty a lot, more than you think. But, he has not made a lot of plays. He may have stopped a lot of plays by being in the right place to force a QB to look elsewhere, maybe even cause a sack or a throw away, but he has not been a ball hawk/playmaker....which is something all those superbowl teams had at the safety position.

That does not mean he won't develop into a playmaker, he is still learning the position.

 

[Sicilian]

I like McCourty a lot, more than you think. But, he has not made a lot of plays. He may have stopped a lot of plays by being in the right place to force a QB to look elsewhere, maybe even cause a sack or a throw away, but he has not been a ball hawk/playmaker....which is something all those superbowl teams had at the safety position.

That does not mean he won't develop into a playmaker, he is still learning the position.

I don't think I could disagree more with the idea that forcing a QB to look elsewhere or being a major contributor to a coverage sack is somehow "not making a play". That's EXACTLY what Revis does. He doesn't get a lot of INTs or make a lot of flashy plays. He just consistently covers his guy, which causes the QB to look elsewhere. So that's good enough for Revis but not good enough for McCourty?

 

[Nunchucks]

I don't think I could disagree more with the idea that forcing a QB to look elsewhere or being a major contributor to a coverage sack is somehow "not making a play". That's EXACTLY what Revis does. He doesn't get a lot of INTs or make a lot of flashy plays. He just consistently covers his guy, which causes the QB to look elsewhere. So that's good enough for Revis but not good enough for McCourty?

Well, when the QB looks elsewhere, he see's an open guy.....so...yeah...

 

[grux]

I can't wish injury on any player and I certainly don't blame them for chasing the money but the competitor in me takes less money for the right to compete. Neither Suh nor Revis will sniff a Super Bowl with their current teams. Their contracts preclude it.

Some players (Revis & Suh) don't value team wins their idea of a win is the size of a contract. I don't agree with their philosophy but don't blame them for chasing the money. I am thankful that Brady, Wilfork, McCourty etc value wins on the field more than max $$$$

 

[Sicilian]

Well, when the QB looks elsewhere, he see's an open guy.....so...yeah...

Again, no different from Revis. Limiting a QB's options is making a play.

 

[Nunchucks]

Again, no different from Revis. Limiting a QB's options is making a play.

Those players caused turnovers.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Is it too much to ask for this team to just "go for it" while we still have the GOAT at QB? If we lost Revis over 5m, that is not smart..IMO...

If the Pats were at 35 and jets were at 40..i agree what's 5 more mill...

 

[Sicilian]

Those players caused turnovers.

Great. Those seem to be all that matters to you. You must have hated Revis then. He only had TWO interceptions all year. Clearly not a playmaker.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Woodson is a good example. Every other team you listed had an elite (or playing elite at the time) SAFETY. Oddly enough, we still have that.

Surely you are joking.....

McCourty is not even close to being elite, although now he is being paid like one. Watch the tape, he is a day late and a dollar short on almost every play! He made a nice pick (on a route that he was previously beaten on earlier in the game) in the Baltimore game, other than that, he was invisible in the playoffs. Unless you count the times that other teams made 4th down conversions by throwing to the TE he was covering.

He was on the sidelines on the Superbowl winning play. Elite players are not on the sidelines at such times. And now, 2 of the 3 corners that made that play, are gone.

I was hoping that the Pats would come to their senses and let someone overpay for McCourty and re-sign Revis. I never even thought they would decline Browner's option. It just made too much sense. Brady has about 3 years left, keep Revis and Browner, re-tool the line via the draft and bingo.

For the next three years, I consider McCourty playing with the money that should have gone to Revis. Let's see how he does.

 

[grux]

If the Pats were at 35 and jets were at 40..i agree what's 5 more mill...

Why did the pats have to overpay, did Revis need the extra money? IMO, Revis waned to be the highest paid corner and he accomplished his goal. The contract he signed with the Jets was never happening in NE. If you believe some of the rumors the pats were out of the picture early which makes me wonder who the Jets were negotiating against.

 

[Sicilian]

Surely you are joking.....

McCourty is not even close to being elite, although now he is being paid like one. Watch the tape, he is a day late and a dollar short on almost every play! He made a nice pick (on a route that he was previously beaten on earlier in the game) in the Baltimore game, other than that, he was invisible in the playoffs. Unless you count the times that other teams made 4th down conversions by throwing to the TE he was covering.

He was on the sidelines on the Superbowl winning play. Elite players are not on the sidelines at such times. And now, 2 of the 3 corners that made that play, are gone.

I was hoping that the Pats would come to their senses and let someone overpay for McCourty and re-sign Revis. I never even thought they would decline Browner's option. It just made too much sense. Brady has about 3 years left, keep Revis and Browner, re-tool the line via the draft and bingo.

For the next three years, I consider McCourty playing with the money that should have gone to Revis. Let's see how he does.

There were several teams willing to give McCourty what the Patriots did (or more). Clearly you're in the minority of people that don't consider him elite.

 

[Tunescribe]

3 years. $48 million, $39 million fully guaranteed.

$16 million a year is $2 million more than the next highest paid CB in the NFL. $39 million guaranteed over 3 years would cause major problems with every other contract the Pats have or want to have with players in the future.

That's what I figured and tend to agree. "Reportedly," he was willing to take slightly less to remain here and the cap will continue going up. But I guess we'll just have to accept that it didn't fit the Patriots' traditionally more equitable roster salary model and move on.

 

[Nunchucks]

Great. Those seem to be all that matters to you. You must have hated Revis then. He only had TWO interceptions all year. Clearly not a playmaker.

You are missing the point, I assume on purpose. A corner should stop the QB from throwing their way....a great safety should be creating turnovers. All the greatest safeties in the game create turnovers.

 

[Patriots1364life]

Idk if brady is playing till he is 40. This defense is in shambles now.

 

[patfanken]

I like McCourty a lot, more than you think. But, he has not made a lot of plays. He may have stopped a lot of plays by being in the right place to force a QB to look elsewhere, maybe even cause a sack or a throw away, but he has not been a ball hawk/playmaker....which is something all those superbowl teams had at the safety position.

That does not mean he won't develop into a playmaker, he is still learning the position.

Let me help you understand the understated impact of someone like McCourty. You know that playmaker guy you are talking about? The first guy I think about is Assante Samuel. He was a ultimate playmaker. Yet for every play Assante made, there were one or two he gave up that were negative, and rarely made it to a highlight reel.

It may not be spectacular, and its very difficult to itemize its effect, but McCourty's ability to keep teams from making big plays in the middle of the field has been huge. I think FO's and PFF have given him high grades for his play the last few years. IIRC his QB rating is very low.

Also making big plays can also be a function of the kind of defense you are playing. Playing a single high S for most of the time is probably not the place to get a lot of pick. However if you are in a defense where you get to play a "robber" a lot of the time, you should be.

As for his playmaking ability, IIRC he has 17 picks over the last 5 years. That's among the best in the league. Also FYI Vontae Davis and Greg Tolar are one the better CB combos in the league