Idle Thoughts – a reflective edition

[Brady6]

Agreed, which is why I have a problem with the specific timing of the Mankins move.

Taking that into account, it certainly has the potential to pay off in the long run. Apparently, Belichick felt as though he could replace the loss to some degree without too much fallback. To this point, he's been wrong.

If the OL can improve however, it's not only a good move for the future, but a good move now as well. Of course that is a big "if," but all we can do is hope for the best.

That has been a problem in recent years for Belichick, this desire to have his cake and eat it too, understandably because what is the point of cake if you cannot eat it. He wants to have a great defense, but it is coming at the expense of his offense, and all that is a reversal of what we were in 2007-2012, he wanted a great offense and that came at the expense of our defense.

 

[DaBruinz]

There is no guarantee that Cannon will adapt to an offensive guard role since Cannon never played offensive guard in college nor started and finished a game at the offensive guard position until this season.

Cannon regularly practiced at the guard position with TCU. Not just the RT position. And it used to be quite common for RTs to move to LG. Something about vision being similar for the two positions.

Just because Cannon hadn't started or "finished" a game prior to this season at the guard position doesn't mean he hadn't play there. He had. And you know it.

 

[New England Pride]

That is all I can really offer you on Amendola today, I really have very little interest in talking about him anymore.

Really? So what are you gonna post about now? Better yet, when he gets cut this offseason, are you going to follow him to his new teams forum and bog down there servers as well?

 

[DaBruinz]

I find it amazing that no one has mentioned that the protection calls by Connolly could have a huge affect on the O-LINE play. I've mentioned it, but too many people has ignored it.

People need to be reminded that, in 2011, when Connolly was the starting center, Brian Waters was the one handling the protection calls and snap counts, not Connolly. Yet, no one seems to be willing to acknowledge that Connolly being poor at this could have an effect on what's been happening. If Connolly is making the incorrect calls, then how are the guys supposed to set-up to be in the proper position to make the proper blocks needed.

I mentioned that on the on the play where Tuck beat Devey, the gap between Devey and Vollmer looked larger than usual to start with.. I also noticed that Connolly helped Cannon instead of Devey and that Vollmer side-stepped almost straight back giving Tuck unfettered access to Brady. Devey also seemed like he was going to try and block to his left instead of getting in front of Tuck and that also attributed to Tuck blowing by him.

 

[Brady6]

Cannon regularly practiced at the guard position with TCU. Not just the RT position. And it used to be quite common for RTs to move to LG. Something about vision being similar for the two positions.

Just because Cannon hadn't started or "finished" a game prior to this season at the guard position doesn't mean he hadn't play there. He had. And you know it.

Whoever told you that lied to you, first Cannon was a LT in his final season at TCU and was at RT before that. He never took a snap at a position other than LT or RT in college career.

That aside I agree, I do think Cannon will end up being a good OG in the NFL.

 

[DaBruinz]

For every Andruzzi, Neal, Ashworth there was a Mruczkowski, Tucker, Yates. There are no guarantees with Devey and based on his play this season, Devey belongs on the bench.

Mentioning Tucker doesn't help you since he was a vet in for a try-out. Not a UDFA trying to make a team.

For every Dan Koppen, there is was a Rich Orhnberger.

Who is the starting OC for the San Diego Chargers?

Oh really? Who played left tackle for the New England Patriots during the 2005 NFL Season after Matt Light broke his leg? Matt Light was drafted in the second round of the 2001 NFL Draft while Logan Mankins was drafted in the first round of the 2005 NFL Draft. So much for the year earlier bull crap.

I agree that he was incorrect about Light being drafted the year before Mankins. However, It was Tom Ashworth who stepped in for Light.

Damien Woody was named to the Pro Bowl in 2002.

The Pro-Bowl doesn't mean anything. Why do people keep bringing it up. It has no bearing on how good a player truly is..

 

[Brady6]

Really? So what are you gonna post about now? Better yet, when he gets cut this offseason, are you going to follow him to his new teams forum and bog down there servers as well?

I post about many different topics, probably more different topics than 99.9% of people on this board. I do not intend to follow Amendola; once he is gone, he will be nothing more than a distant memory.

You should check out this page - http://www.improvboston.com/training/intro-to-standup if you intend on continuing your career as a comedian that is…

 

[DaBruinz]

Whoever told you that lied to you, first Cannon was a LT in his final season at TCU and was at RT before that. He never took a snap at a position other than LT or RT in college career.

That aside I agree, I do think Cannon will end up being a good OG in the NFL.

Yes. Marcus Cannon and his TCU coach both lied about Cannon practicing at Guard on a regular basis. *rolls eyes* Helps if you actually READ what is said instead of assuming what is said. It would help you not look so foolish when you respond to people.

BTW, I know where Cannon played. I loved the pick when the Pats made it. So, please do yourself a favor and don't try and contradict me when you are the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[Brady6]

Yes. Marcus Cannon and his TCU coach both lied about Cannon practicing at Guard on a regular basis. *rolls eyes* Helps if you actually READ what is said instead of assuming what is said. It would help you not look so foolish when you respond to people.

BTW, I know where Cannon played. I loved the pick when the Pats made it. So, please do yourself a favor and don't try and contradict me when you are the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.

Do you have a link that shows him and his coach saying that he practiced at OG at TCU? Or am I taking your word for it? I read what you said you just did not provide anything to substantiate it.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Why? The team could have kept Mankins for 2014, cut ties with him early in the offseason, and still have negotiated a long term deal with Revis. In what fantasy land does Mankins need to be traded a year too early in order to sign Revis long term?

Yeah....this is about par for the course.

1.) It's been documented that the Patriots wanted Wright and tried to trade.
2.) It's documented that Mankins was asked to amend his contract...he would not.
3.) It's documented Tamps needed guard help.

Sorry Einstein.........but 2+2=5 isn't possible in the real world. Back here in realityville, in order to "get" you sometimes have to "give". It's also a fact in realityville that one never gets the chance to totally control the circumstance and timing of what needs to happen.

Since nobody will exactly get you confused with Nostradamus.......ya might want to like let things play out a little before rushing off the deep end.

 

[DaBruinz]

Do you have a link that shows him and his coach saying that he practiced at OG at TCU? Or am I taking your word for it? I read what you said you just did not provide anything to substantiate it.

I could provide a link, but you'd ignore it. That is your modus operandi. And I can't right this second because I'm at work. Why don't you go and do a search for it. Or are you too lazy?

BTW, no you didn't read what I said. If you did, you'd know I said PRACTICE. Not game. So, please stop trying to claim you did something when it's plain, by your response, you did no such thing.

 

[DaBruinz]

Sciz posted this in the other thread re: Solder. I think it speaks volumes to how many people aren't giving Solder enough credit..

Either I don't know what I'm looking at, the Raiders game was completely different and you're talking about the first two, or that part about him not playing on an island is completely incorrect. Watching every passing play focusing solely on Solder, I saw two schemed LT+LG doubles on edge guys, and Solder came off the double team to pick up a blitzer one of those times. There were four TE+LT double teams, two coming on hard play actions and one where Solder left the double team to pick up a blitzer. I saw one RB chip.

I don't remember if any of those plays were called back for penalties and there were plays that happened so fast that the blocking didn't matter, but officially there were 41 drop backs in the game. I counted him getting schemed help on the edge 7 times with 4 true double teams, only one of which was from an offensive lineman.

 

[Brady6]

LOTs are drafted high but interior OLs are drafted from 4th to UDFA.

The Pats won Superbowls or went to them with UDFA starters, like Andruzzi, Robinson-Randle Boldin, Neal, Hochstein et cetera.

Tippett pointed out that Solder had problems in 2013. That was WITH Mankins there.
So I question your thesis here, that it is all Cannon's fault.

This is a look at the top OG and OC in the NFL, very few were taken in the fourth round or later:

Justin Blaylock - #39
Geoff Schwartz - #244
David DeCastro - #24
Jhari Evans - #108
Andy Levitre - #51
Logan Mankins - #32
Ben Grubbs - #29
Marshal Yanda - #86
Evan Mathis - #79
Mike Iupati - #17
Alex Boone - UDFA
Davin Joseph - #23
Kevin Zeitler - #27
Kyle Long - #20
Chance Warmack - #10
Jonathan Cooper - #7
Jon Asamoah - #68
Rodger Saffold - #33
Brandon Brooks - #76
Larry Warford - #65
Louis Vasquez - #78
Josh Sitton - #135
Alex Mack - #21
Chris Myers - #200
Max Unger - #49
Eric Wood - #28
John Sullivan - #187
Nick Mangold - #29
Mike Pouncey - #15
Maurkice Pouncey - #18
Ryan Kalil - #59
Jason Kelce - #191

In the past 5 NFL drafts Belichick has invested 1, yes that is a 1 – pick in the first 3 rounds of the draft on an OL. That is not a commitment to building a strong OL, not even close, up until this season he had not draft an OL any place in the draft in since 2011.

 

[Brady6]

I could provide a link, but you'd ignore it. That is your modus operandi. And I can't right this second because I'm at work. Why don't you go and do a search for it. Or are you too lazy?

BTW, no you didn't read what I said. If you did, you'd know I said PRACTICE. Not game. So, please stop trying to claim you did something when it's plain, by your response, you did no such thing.

I read what you said, and I researched it before I quoted your post the first time, I did not see anything stating he practiced at OG during his time at TCU. Can you post a link?

 

[RayClay]

Your appeal to authority has been noted.

I don't really understand that term. Why would I appeal to people who don't know what they're talking about? I noted their record of letting players go to save money. Do you disagree they have been very prescient in that area?

 

[supafly]

You should note that Revis is presently contracted to receive $20M in 2015. If Revis stays, his cap number would be reduced.

The mystery for me is the valuation of Cannon and Devey as starting OG's.

Revis has a 25m dollar cap hit for next year, which was nothing more than a dummy year thrown in by him to prevent them from using the franchise tag.

While the cap hit would (obviously) go down, it will likely still hover around double digits depending on how it's structured.

Even if it's somehow down to 7-8-9m dollars or so for the first year, it still replaces the cap hit that would've been Mankins, so I'm not sure where you're going with this? The fact remains that Belichick may have taken into account the free agent needs of next year, specifically with 2 larger contracts in Revis/McCourty.

 

[supafly]

I only referenced him to highlight that Mankins being cut for needed cap space is a falsely.

Not that I mean to be argumentative towards you lately, but you keep referencing this "5.7" number, when the reality is that pretty much everyone knew that things would be reassessed if needed, after the first couple of years when we could go back to seeing cap savings.

Amendola's cap hit for last year was 3.5m dollars. What kind of receiver do you think they'd have been able to get for that kind of money, especially when he caught 54 balls last year? As a matter of fact, he doesn't even have a "5.7" cap hit this year either. It's about 4.5 million dollars.

Amendola is likely going to be a failure as it pertains to overpaying him, but your attempt at making it sound like the Chad Johnson situation has gone a bit overboard--don't you think? I think we've all realized for awhile that he's likely to see either a cut or restructuring when the year is up. For year one, it's not nearly as bad as you've tried to make it. For year two through three games, it's horrible--although so is everyone not named Edelman. The good thing is that we can walk away at the end of the year, if the need arises.

 

[Brady6]

Not that I mean to be argumentative towards you lately, but you keep referencing this "5.7" number, when the reality is that pretty much everyone knew that things would be reassessed if needed, after the first couple of years when we could go back to seeing cap savings.

Amendola's cap hit for last year was 3.5m dollars. What kind of receiver do you think they'd have been able to get for that kind of money, especially when he caught 54 balls last year? As a matter of fact, he doesn't even have a "5.7" cap hit this year either. It's about 4.5 million dollars.

Amendola is likely going to be a failure as it pertains to overpaying him, but your attempt at making it sound like the Chad Johnson situation has gone a bit overboard--don't you think? I think we've all realized for awhile that he's likely to see either a cut or restructuring when the year is up. For year one, it's not nearly as bad as you've tried to make it. For year two through three games, it's horrible--although so is everyone not named Edelman. The good thing is that we can walk away at the end of the year, if the need arises.

If Amendola is cut after the season the total hit against our cap for his 2 seasons here will be around $11.7M. They can technically spread those hits over 3 league years but it's still $11.7M in total cap hits for 2 seasons of work, so it actually $5.85M per season.

I do not want to dig into Amendola though. I'm just pointing out that we are not exactly reinvesting this cap space properly in many cases, so I'm not going to ride on the Belichick has a plan and this Mankins trade will end up being brilliant parade.

 

[mgteich]

You looked at Miguel's numbers and concluded that we were very tight to the cap. The cap that Miguel has for Revis is $25M, including $5M dead money from this year. If Revis signs a new contract had a first year cap of $8M as you suggest, that would result in a $12M REDUCTION in our cap responsibility. In other words, signing Revis is NOT a cap cost. The reality is that McCourty and Revis and Gostkowski will likely have a TOTAL cap hit less than Miguel currently has for Revis alone.

If you wish to consider Revis as a new contract to sign, then you should decrease the 2015 cap expenditures by the fake $20 salary for Revis for 2015. The additional $20M plus the Mankins money from this year and next provide considerable cap money.

Revis has a 25m dollar cap hit for next year, which was nothing more than a dummy year thrown in by him to prevent them from using the franchise tag.

While the cap hit would (obviously) go down, it will likely still hover around double digits depending on how it's structured.

Even if it's somehow down to 7-8-9m dollars or so for the first year, it still replaces the cap hit that would've been Mankins, so I'm not sure where you're going with this? The fact remains that Belichick may have taken into account the free agent needs of next year, specifically with 2 larger contracts in Revis/McCourty.

 

[AzPatsFan]

This is a look at the top OG and OC in the NFL, very few were taken in the fourth round or later:

Justin Blaylock - #39
Geoff Schwartz - #244
David DeCastro - #24
Jhari Evans - #108
Andy Levitre - #51
Logan Mankins - #32
Ben Grubbs - #29
Marshal Yanda - #86
Evan Mathis - #79
Mike Iupati - #17
Alex Boone - UDFA
Davin Joseph - #23
Kevin Zeitler - #27
Kyle Long - #20
Chance Warmack - #10
Jonathan Cooper - #7
Jon Asamoah - #68
Rodger Saffold - #33
Brandon Brooks - #76
Larry Warford - #65
Louis Vasquez - #78
Josh Sitton - #135
Alex Mack - #21
Chris Myers - #200
Max Unger - #49
Eric Wood - #28
John Sullivan - #187
Nick Mangold - #29
Mike Pouncey - #15
Maurkice Pouncey - #18
Ryan Kalil - #59
Jason Kelce - #191

In the past 5 NFL drafts Belichick has invested 1, yes that is a 1 – pick in the first 3 rounds of the draft on an OL. That is not a commitment to building a strong OL, not even close, up until this season he had not draft an OL any place in the draft in since 2011.

This is an arbitrary list of 34 of the 64 Gs starting in the NFL. I assume the other thirty didn't qualify as high picks. Of them (12 of this 34, 35% of sample), are 3rd round or later draft picks
What are you trying to prove if 42 of 64 don't meet your criterion?

BTW, the Patriots invested a First for Solder, and a Second for Vollmer, in the past few years. This is consistent with Belichick's often stated dictum: "You draft Left Tackles, and move them... if they fail". Spending two high picks for 2 the most important of the 5 positions, is hardly ignoring the line for half a decade.