I like our defense

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Apr 5, 2006.

  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Isn't the 2006 playoff version likely to better than the 2005. I think so.

    All are back and more experienced. This is a great, improving group. It could be even better if we chose a Day One pick as Seymour insurance to replace Klecko.

    We'll add two first day picks or free agents) plus Claridge. Colvin will be better, one year healthier, and Vrabel will STAY INSIDE. The triangle of Vrabel-Wilfork-Bruschi will be awesome with Wilfork and Vrabel more experienced at their positions. Beisel might contribute more than in 2005, or he will be replaced. How uncomfortable are we with two Day One picks competing with Banta-Cain and Claridge for reps at OLB in camp, with Vrabel as "Plan B". Bruschi/Vrabel/Beisel are fine inside. Beisel won't get much work, but that's fine. Maybe a rookie ILB will beat him out for reps.

    Sanders was our nickel last year and Poteat our dime back. Childress was our emergency db. And we did fine! Instead of Starks, we have Chad Scott, Gay, and Warfield. That has to be a major improvement. And Hobbs is likely to be better.

    Harrison should be back for the playoffs. Until then, Hawkins now knows the system and Sanders a year better. Wilson will be better with consistency at SS. And we have Guss Scott and Mitchell replacing Stone.

    As of now, I will be disappointed if we don't draft at least additions to the front seven on Day One. I really expect a DE tweener, an OLB, a TE and whatever else we can get of value (perhaps a center-guard, although we are likely to wait unit Day Two). Of course, I'd like the fourth to be a RT/RG roadgrader.
    Would I be fine with no glamour players on Day One? no CB, no RB, no WR? I would; what about you?
  2. Sean Pa Patriot

    Sean Pa Patriot Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #12 Jersey

    I think Harrison plays by opening day...
  3. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    I like our defense too, but man, I'm gonna miss Willy.
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    I'm a little nervous about Safety if Harrison doesn't make it back. Hawkins did fine and Sanders is was young and injured so he's far from a lost cause. But that's not a certain solid spot. I am starting to agree that Vrabel will stay inside. I still can't decide who I want to replace him, though. Manny Lawson, the next Colvin. Or Carpenter who's good at playing physical like McGinest. Or a 2nd or 3rd rounder with the #1 going elsewhere.
  5. shakadave

    shakadave In the Starting Line-Up

    Vrabel is excellent wherever he plays, but I'm nervous with him inside --- playing ILB in our system takes years off your career and puts high mileage on your upper vertebrae and skull bone! Vrabel would be with us longer if we can keep him on the outside.
  6. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Useful, informed set of comments from responding posters.

    But i mainly wanted to use this post as an example of how the lead post's author has grown ... in knowledge and judgment ...
    over the 2 1/2 years i've been following Mark.

    I thought that i agreed with everything he said ... even before he said it.
    But if i didn't ... then i sure agree after reading it!

    DL - among the very best.

    LBs - still a potent gang of offense-wreckers ... even without Three And A Half Million Dollar Willie.

    Secondary - as described ... except Rodney back no later than week 7, perhaps even week 1.

    Should mention that i, too, am confident that Vrabs remains mostly inside. Belichick's standard migration path is
    DE in college
    becomes OLB with the Pats
    until the smartest graduate to ILB.
  7. tkayo

    tkayo On the Roster

    Agree for the most part. I think BB is drafting from the inside out, so now that the DL looks good, an OLB will be the 1st pick. Letting Willie walk without an offer, attempt at restructuring or even a comment is a big sign of changes to come. The Chargers got Merriman at #12 last year and I wonder where we have to be in the 1st to get someone like that?
  8. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    I agree completely, felt that this has been the plan all along, my only concern has been that our LB corps could use some shoring up. This plan meets these needs, agree that we will shy away from "glamour" players and opt for more blue collar guys who can buy into this team..
  9. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Tough to see Willie go, but I think it is time to get young in the LB area. Certainly an OLB would be great and I expect that..keeping Vrabel inside is having coaches on the field..between he and TedyB. Really like that. Claridge, Beisel, Banta-Cain?? Interesting development of this team.
  10. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

    Yes I like the D also ...... but

    ... needs better quality depth on the DL and the depth at LB is scary.

    On DL they have Green, Wright, Klecko and Hill as primary backups.
    I wonder if they could get someone to compete and win either Kleco or
    Hills spot. This will be Hill's third year ... will he step up? What is his
    problem? He has the size and youth. Maybe this is his break out year.
    If not maybe he can get beat out with Competition in TC.

    As for ILB - there's Beisel as the only real experienced backup one. That is not too comforting.
    Yes all have had some playing time but Biesel is the most game time experienced outside Izzo
    who is at best a stop gap not an every down player you want out there.

    Replacing Willie won't be easy and in reality I do not see anyone on the roster that can do it.
    Lots of potential but nothing real proven. Sure Banta Cain has had some flashes but he's also
    been lost at times. It looks like PATs are going with an in experienced OLB unless they move
    Vrabel back and use Beisel inside. ( yuk).

    Then there is Depth for the LBs ... practically non exixstent. This Unit is
    critical to PATs D and is just one major injury away from becoming average.

    Secondary looks good with good depth.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2006
  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    The implication is that Johnson and Nelson had short careers. I don't think so.

  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    Vrabel would just be on Bruschi's career path and Tedy has played a good number of years at ILB starting in his late 20s or so. Vrabel is around 30, there's no reason he can't start at ILB for 4 years or so at which point he'll be starting to get old for any LB position.
  13. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    I like mg's analysis, but I think Willie's replacement has to be Vrabel. OLB is a very challenging position in this scheme. Setting the edge on the run and screens, covering or rushing the passer, no one has the skill set and experience to do all these as effectively as Vrabel. The other ILB spot may have to be by committee. A mid rd draftee like Hodge for 1st and 2nd down and a coverage guy from our current backups or a 1st rder. Tedy is just going to have to coach 'em up. IMO, Biesel is going to have to bulk up and redefine his game to stay on this team.
    Also, another DL draftee to compete with Klecko or Hill. I kind of like Wright. He may blossom some more yet. Green is solid gold.
  14. nickw308810

    nickw308810 On the Game Day Roster

    I agree our defense can be better than last year. Especially because we get all of our DBs back. More experience and healthier players = success. I'd like if we brought in some draft picks that can learn for a few weeks and then become difference makers and then become solid contributers, but even if we use our top picks for an offensive player (everyone knows we can use a few of those) then I would be fine with the defense we have.
  15. patsfan55

    patsfan55 In the Starting Line-Up

    #95 Jersey

    the front seven play at the end of last yr was what got us to the playoffs

    the biggest challenge for bb and pioli are finding willies replacement
    is it bobby carpenter or another draft pick?
    is it moving vrabel back outside, and using beisel/claridge/draft pick inside?
    is it starting tbc?
    is it switching to a base 4-3?

    we can all guess what will happen, but only time will tell, and hopefully whatever four (or three) starting lbs on the field can all make plays
  16. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    It is always great to have disagreement.

    Actually I thin that the ILB and NT positions are the difficult positions to fill. There are hundreds of OLB's, many are now pass-rushing DE's in a 43.

  17. Captain Cliche

    Captain Cliche On the Game Day Roster

    Other Fans Views

    The final 1/3 to 1/2 of the season the D was playing lights out.

    Other than turnovers, they owned Denver.

    I work on the oilfield with fans from all over the country. They hate the Patriots and grudgingly admire them at the same time.

    Many asked me, "What happened to the Pats." I thought they were going all the way again." They saw how well the D was playing.

    Most thought...oh, well the Pats finally lost a playoff game...they finally put up a stinker. They were amazed how well they were playing despite all the injuries. I swear they have more faith in the Patriots ability to continue to compete than many of our own fans. They figure we will always be in it with Belichik and Brady.

    One serious football fan said he was amazed at how well the secondary had the other team covered the entire game (I forget which game...maybe Jax).

    Bottom line, that same defense returns...with less injuries and a few new additions...they ought to kick some serious butt....and you're right JCZ...Jarvis Green is solid gold...imagine losing Seymour without any serious drop off. Huge move locking him up.

    Now, with a healthy O-line maybe the offense can catch up.
  18. Brady'sButtBoy

    Brady'sButtBoy 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #12 Jersey

    Beisel was playing much better near the end of last season and was in on some key stops in the playoffs, so I wouldn't write him off just yet. I bet he will be seeing a lot of playing time after making such steady improvement by the end of last year.

    The defense still really needs a super stud in the DB since we can't be certain Rodney will ever return to form. An Ed Reed/Troy Polomalu type who can really hit and run like mad would completely change the character of our D and take some of the pressure off the front seven. I know they are hard to come by, but big time rookie in the DB could make our a D a real terror.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2006
  19. b72s

    b72s On the Game Day Roster

    Nice Thread

    I like the D and agree with alot of points here. They played great at the endof year after recovering from many injuries and still did not have Rodney or Gay.

    I do see though defense being key in first day of draft. I just wonder after looking at these mocks with 3 RBs available will we trade down, pick our player regardless aka the Jimmy Johnson model(mankins) or really take an RB.

    I like the later rounds pick up of Drew for Rb.

    I gotta impagine we go D in Rd 1 to address all said
  20. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Well, I think the last one is out..they MAY play more 4-3..but shifting to that all the time?? Not happening at all..the BASE here is 3-4..the players brought in for that..I don't expect a major shift, especially with the D still playing strong last year at the end. The OLB, ILB stud is a better discussion...with Vrabel either staying in or going out depending.

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