How the Pats Should Handle the Samuel Negotiations

[ArmyPatsFan]

Nah.....if he sits thru 10....bench his sorry butt and franchise him again. Oh and we would save about 5 mil as well in cap space....

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Nah.....if he sits thru 10....bench his sorry butt and franchise him again. Oh and we would save about 5 mil as well in cap space....

Yup, and all it would cost us is $3M in cap and cash (actual paychecks) and a valuable roster spot down the stretch and into the playoffs. That would really show him - screw with us Asante and all you will get is $3M guaranteed for no risk...

 

[ArmyPatsFan]

No crap....the premise was that he sits thru week 10 and is still on the team and not traded. I would rather get a long term deal or trade him .....but if it gets to that point what would you suggest smart guy?

 

[PatsSteve1]

Have BBioli yet let one of these kinda situations linger into the season? By situation, I mean player wants more than the Patriots want to pay kinda situations. If your maybe thinking Ty Law, remember his last year here he was still paid well and wasn't unhappy to take that money. Milloy was cut before the start of the season, and maybe Bbioli learned from that to not let it get to that late a point. Seymour was signed at the early part of TC. Branch was traded early, too. Maybe an MO here to watch is the Patriots either telling Samuels they won't tag him again next year if he signs and plays the whole season this year. Or they sign and trade him well before the start of the season for(I would guess) less than the 2 Rnd 1 picks.

 

[QuiGon]

I just had a thought... what if Pats let Samuel sit out. Now I am sure that we are not gonna lose every game because of this, well maybe 1 or 2. So now Samuel comes back week 10 AND the rest of the season, into the playoffs which we should make with or without him. Though the best part is that Samuel will have to play well, maybe as well as he did in 06 in order to get that big contract he wants! He has no choice really, because if everyone sees that he was a one year wonder he isnt going to get the big contract. So Samuel I am sure will be ready and will play good right at the time we need him! The playoffs!

The is no way he sits out until week 10 and then the Patriots just let him stroll back onto the team for the late season playoff and Super Bowl run.

The management, coaches and the players have way too much self respect to ever allow such a thing.

 

[Water Boy]

The is no way he sits out until week 10 and then the Patriots just let him stroll back onto the team for the late season playoff and Super Bowl run.

The management, coaches and the players have way too much self respect to ever allow such a thing.

There is nothing that the Pat's F.O. can do to prevent Asante from holding out to week 10. I don't see BB inactivating Asante out of spite. Assuming he stays in shape and focussed, Asante will likely be better than the player(s) who will be keeping his seat warm during his hold out. If Asante gives us the best chance to win, BB will play him.

I don't get the sense that this is a contentious situation. Both sides are just making business deciscions. While some of the players on the team may not respect Asante holding out, I don't foresee his return in week 10 as something that would divide the team.

 

[QuiGon]

There is nothing that the Pat's F.O. can do to prevent Asante from holding out to week 10. I don't see BB inactivating Asante out of spite.

It's not out of spite, it's out of self respect. Asante can sit out until week 10 but he can't force the Patriots to play him.

Assuming he stays in shape and focussed, Asante will likely be better than the player(s) who will be keeping his seat warm during his hold out. If Asante gives us the best chance to win, BB will play him.

You must not have been a New England fan back in 2001 with the whole Terri Glenn situation.

I don't get the sense that this is a contentious situation. Both sides are just making business deciscions. While some of the players on the team may not respect Asante holding out, I don't foresee his return in week 10 as something that would divide the team.

It won't divide the team because it isn't going to happen. If Asante sat out all the way until week 10, he will not be allowed to just stroll back onto the team for a playoff and Super Bowl run.

 

[amazinPats]

Yup, and all it would cost us is $3M in cap and cash (actual paychecks) and a valuable roster spot down the stretch and into the playoffs. That would really show him - screw with us Asante and all you will get is $3M guaranteed for no risk...

I say sit his ass for the rest of the season if he comes back after 10 games. That valuable roster spot you refer to is actually worth a likely first round pick when he gets traded in 2008 (after being again franchised.) I don't think he can help the team much after sitting out training camp and the majority of the year. We can go into our playoff run without him...thank you!

Our offense will score an awful lot of points. This will take a lot of pressure off our defence. I think we can get by without Samuel if we need to.

 

[Pats726]

No matter how good AS is..he woud not have been in a practice with athe team...so he will not step right in..that is even if he is in top condition..as that will just lengthen his return...he will play depening on where his head is at, where the team is and how much he is willing to work to get into game shape

 

[Ring 6]

Many, if not most, franchise tagged malcontents will usually readily play out the year under the tag, if the team promises not to use the tag on them again the next year. This is why Samuel would go for this kind of contract -- because it stipulated that if the Pats keep him after 2007, they will pay him big-time guaranteed money. Otherwise they can release him -- but they won't be able to tag him. This is why he'd take the deal.

Basically, in return for giving up the right to tag Samuel again after '07, the Pats are getting the option to trigger a long-term contract at Clements-level value.

Whats the point? Why **** around with a contract that stipulates big money in 2008, rather than just give it to him now?
Do you really think the Pats opinion of Samuel is going to change that much between now and March?
I dont think there is a way to outsmart the situation. The Pats have 3 choices:
1) Agree to the deal Samuel will agree to.
2) Dont, and keep him tagged.
3) Trade him

If they choose 2, then Samuel either reports or doesn't. They can revisit the choices then.

I think NFL history is that it is common for players to threaten holdouts, but rare for them to actually sit out. In this case we have a guy who has made something like 3-4 mill in his ENTIRE CAREER bluffing that he will sit home and pass up an almost 500,000 WEEKLY CHECK. I was born at night but not last night, so excuse if I find the overreaction to Samuel's bluff silly.

 

[Bruschi 3:16]

The Patriots should merely say to Asante:

"See you in week 10, until then, go to hell".

 

[Remix 6]

just remember:

Samuel stole one interception while covering Larry Fitzgerald, then left on a play he nearly picked another. He's been lining up as New England's nickelback in training camp behind Eugene Wilson and Ellis Hobbs.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Some of you guys really just don't get Bill Belichick. He's not a guy who will single out a player over money just to show the rest of 'em who's the boss. That's fanboy talk. This team understands the history that if you get nasty about money with this team, you are punching your ticket out of town sooner or later, one way or the other. And the team will get something of value for you. And you will get a big new deal somewhere else where they may not win and regardless of how you perform you may never see those really big bucks tied to the backend of your new deal. Life is all about choices, and they basically choose to retain the guys to whom winning matters.

The only cave in that would be of interest to these players is if the team suddenly shifts gears and gives this player what he wants LT to stay. He would be the first. They almost did with Deion, but in the end he was so entrenched he would even let them. You either compromise with them or reach some short term accommodation or you move on.

And if you move on the history to date (with the exception of PK) is you don't win and you don't last to see the big bucks and you sometimes fall off the map altogether. Lawyer and Ty started this - and as a result Lawyer is now just a veteran guy on a team built around a clown whose property the Feds are digging up. Ty is left trailing Herm Edwards around like a pet dog from one QB-less franchise to the next, and he has yet by my math earned even the $26M he was offered to stay here for 2004-2007.

The only comparable those fans can point to is Glenn, and it isn't comparable at all. Glenn wasn't a holdout, he was an immature head case who was first suspended by the league for missing a drug test. After he served that time he was reinstated until the team supended him for the season for breaking team rules, but that suspension was overturned and reduced. Then he was suspended again for breaking team rules prior to the post season. They threatened to go after his signing bonus, but instead traded him in FA to GB. They did that because at the end of the day they teams generally don't want problems festering on a roster.

Asante can't be suspended for missing meetings. Until he signs his tender he is under no obligation to report to a team who chose to tag him. Once he signs his tender, they are obligated to pay him roughly half a million dollars a week for the remainder of the season. If he can play, they will play him because playing someone half a mllion a week to sit on the bench while providing nothing more than a public and private (locker room) distraction is not a value move if your goal is winning football games. BB will put the best players on the field to that end because all that is in this teams best interest is to win.

Which is why I believe they will get something done that gets him on the field in week one (one year deal waiving the tag option in 2008) or gets him gone from the entire equation prior to week 1. That's the approach they took with Branch, who was not within his rights to holdout and was being fined and was subject to discipline Samuel is not. They told him to find a trading partner willing to deal or report to us. He found that partner and the league was apparently prepared to step in force that trade rather than face the prospect of an adverse ruling by an arbitrator.

Right now there is not a whole lot of entrenched support for Asante in that locker room given all the numbers being discussed, and I doubt the organization wants to enter into the kind of them vs. us scenario that could well create it. The lesson isn't that if you want every last dollar you CAN get, we will block you as long as we can to prove you shouldn't want that. It's that if getting every last dollar is your bottom line, you probably aren't one of us after all. Players get that, fans need to grasp that concept too.

 

[PatsSteve1]

Branch was traded early, too. Maybe an MO here to watch is the Patriots either telling Samuels they won't tag him again next year if he signs and plays the whole season this year.

* I'm replying to myself. I was told Branch was dealt just after teh season started. Even so I still suspect that BBioli will do whatever they do before the season starts( or close to it - so it doesn't linger. If he came back the 10th game, how many times does Bb want to be asked if his replacement gives up a TD, if Samuel would have made that play? Or his players asked that? So I'm guessing whatever happens happens before or at the start of the season.

 

[Water Boy]

It's not out of spite, it's out of self respect. Asante can sit out until week 10 but he can't force the Patriots to play him.

Its out of spite. Self respect is about giving your team its best chance to win. Asante isn't breaking any rules. This is how the Franchise Tag negotiations sometimes work. If he comes back in week 10 in shape and is the best player available at CB, BB will and should play him.

You must not have been a New England fan back in 2001 with the whole Terri Glenn situation.

The Terry Glenn situation was completely different. He was a prima dona with major attitude problems.

You must not have been a New England fan back when the Ty Law negotiations were going on. Ty Law called BB a liar and trashed the entire organization in the media in the offseason but came back to play. Where was BB's "self respect" then?

It won't divide the team because it isn't going to happen. If Asante sat out all the way until week 10, he will not be allowed to just stroll back onto the team for a playoff and Super Bowl run.

In your opinion. What if our secondary is depleted with injuries?

 

[Water Boy]

I believe they will get something done that gets him on the field in week one (one year deal waiving the tag option in 2008) or gets him gone from the entire equation prior to week 1.

Good post. I'd be surprised though if BB gave Asante a 1-year deal that would make him an unrestricted FA. I'd really rather see them trade Asante for a high draft pick.

 

[Pats726]

Some of you guys really just don't get Bill Belichick. He's not a guy who will single out a player over money just to show the rest of 'em who's the boss. That's fanboy talk. This team understands the history that if you get nasty about money with this team, you are punching your ticket out of town sooner or later, one way or the other. And the team will get something of value for you. And you will get a big new deal somewhere else where they may not win and regardless of how you perform you may never see those really big bucks tied to the backend of your new deal. Life is all about choices, and they basically choose to retain the guys to whom winning matters.

Mo you are dead on with this one..leave it to the fans for the acrimony and hard words..but not the org at all. they do not get nasty (even when one may think they should..) and you are correct they retain the ones where winning matters more than the green. And I remember first or second day of TC BB and Ty over in a corner of a field talking..and wishing to be a fly there..but..it was quite professional.

And if you move on the history to date (with the exception of PK) is you don't win and you don't last to see the big bucks and you sometimes fall off the map altogether. Lawyer and Ty started this - and as a result Lawyer is now just a veteran guy on a team built around a clown whose property the Feds are digging up. Ty is left trailing Herm Edwards around like a pet dog from one QB-less franchise to the next, and he has yet by my math earned even the $26M he was offered to stay here for 2004-2007. The only comparable those fans can point to is Glenn, and it isn't comparable at all. Glenn wasn't a holdout, he was an immature head case who was first suspended by the league for missing a drug test. After he served that time he was reinstated until the team supended him for the season for breaking team rules, but that suspension was overturned and reduced. Then he was suspended again for breaking team rules prior to the post season. They threatened to go after his signing bonus, but instead traded him in FA to GB. They did that because at the end of the day they teams generally don't want problems festering on a roster..

Not sure who PK is...but that is most true..as history has gone. and they do not wish for festering players to bring the team down. Ty was professional...and they traded Deion..which I think may have been a problem if he had stayed..but they tried their best to come to a win-win situation.

Asante can't be suspended for missing meetings. Until he signs his tender he is under no obligation to report to a team who chose to tag him. Once he signs his tender, they are obligated to pay him roughly half a million dollars a week for the remainder of the season. If he can play, they will play him because playing someone half a mllion a week to sit on the bench while providing nothing more than a public and private (locker room) distraction is not a value move if your goal is winning football games. BB will put the best players on the field to that end because all that is in this teams best interest is to win. .

I totally agree...he will not sit him because he held out or such...but I also think that if they move on and settle their DB problems..AS could have less impact player when he returns game 10. Although I agree more they will try and straighten it out so it soen't come to that.

Which is why I believe they will get something done that gets him on the field in week one (one year deal waiving the tag option in 2008) or gets him gone from the entire equation prior to week 1. That's the approach they took with Branch, who was not within his rights to holdout and was being fined and was subject to discipline Samuel is not. They told him to find a trading partner willing to deal or report to us. He found that partner and the league was apparently prepared to step in force that trade rather than face the prospect of an adverse ruling by an arbitrator.

I agree they will do something if only to be sure he's up for teh one year here.

Right now there is not a whole lot of entrenched support for Asante in that locker room given all the numbers being discussed, and I doubt the organization wants to enter into the kind of them vs. us scenario that could well create it. The lesson isn't that if you want every last dollar you CAN get, we will block you as long as we can to prove you shouldn't want that. It's that if getting every last dollar is your bottom line, you probably aren't one of us after all. Players get that, fans need to grasp that concept too.

I agree but I do not think players get that all the time..demanding so much more..I do not know if AS gets that at all...though. The trick is to make it a win-win situation and if AS believes what he is talking about he will NOT win here at all. I think some fans understand some do not. I think the gans grasped it with Branch...Branch would not budge at all (and to my mind decided way before he had played his last game here..) Samuel?? Not sure..time will tell.

 

[BradyManny]

This is such a waste of time. If Asante isn't traded, and the Franchise tag is still being offered by the Patriots, it is absolutely certain that Asante will sign before the first game.

I agree. But if the Pats can find a trade where they feel they are getting more value, they will pull the trigger even if it means going into the season with one less sure thing. (And of course, a guy who is promising to hold out - even though we both think he won't - is no sure thing.)

Reading Reiss blurb on Asante in the Football Notes this morning, I was reminded how absurd the $$ Asante is looking for in comparison to his track record in the league. If he gets it from a team, more power to him, but it will not be from the Pats.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Not sure who PK is...but that is most true..as history has gone. and they do not wish for festering players to bring the team down. Ty was professional...and they traded Deion..which I think may have been a problem if he had stayed..but they tried their best to come to a win-win situation.

I should have said THE or A PK (place kicker who left and got his money and another ring). A couple of our JAGS got another as well, but in those cases it's not always clear whether the player left for more money than he was worth or we just didn't make any effort to re-sign them. And at that level fans seldom begrudge those players leaving for a payday they will likely have all too few of.

The big names who left in a contract huff by and large have floundered since.

Making an example of Asante would only serve to polarize support in the locker room. Felgie, who occasionally still makes a lucid point, said this week that while the players are all saying the right things, probably in part because what Asante is turning his nose up over is more than they believe he's worth and a lot more than some of them will ever see in a one year term, there are still many who are silently thinking - "you go 'Sante" - show me the way to successfully squeeze this FO (if there is one) 'cause I'm up against them soon.

The best way to retain support for this FO among the rank and file is if they believe the team was disciplined but reasonable and the player was not, and the team ultimately did what was best for the organization with a sole goal of winning in one or both the short and long term. It was a close shave last year because they both wanted and needed the player, and they all knew that, and they ended up without him. But coming down the stretch on that one I think Deion's almost irrational resolve to not negotiate was a revelation to his teamates, and one that in their eyes ultimately mitigated in the FO's favor.

 

[QuiGon]

Its out of spite. Self respect is about giving your team its best chance to win. Asante isn't breaking any rules. This is how the Franchise Tag negotiations sometimes work. If he comes back in week 10 in shape and is the best player available at CB, BB will and should play him.

To quote MLR: "Some of you guys really just don't get Bill Belichick."

You must not have been a New England fan back when the Ty Law negotiations were going on. Ty Law called BB a liar and trashed the entire organization in the media in the offseason but came back to play. Where was BB's "self respect" then?

Now you're the one making a horrible comparison. BB doesn't give two turds about the games people play in the media, because that's all it is... a silly game for negotiating. In February 2004, Ty Law was singing BB's praises. Seriously, you should look up the quotes... Law was practically fawning over the guy. Couple months later, he was pissed because he wasn't cut when he wanted to be. It's just an offseason song and dance. But fact is Ty Law showed up when it was time to show up, and played all the games that year until the injury. If Asante shows up in July, then he will be a valuable member of this team. If he sits out until November, he will not be allowed to come back just in time for a playoff and Super Bowl run.

In your opinion. What if our secondary is depleted with injuries?

Well, let me respond to this question with another question: Last year, when having problems with Deion Branch, this team had a seriously depleted WR corps (not from injury, but simply because they sucked). Did BB cave in to Branch back then...? IIRC, all BB had to do was promise Branch not to franchise him and he would have showed up. Did BB cave in to that relatively minor demand, or did he stand firm..?