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How did Belichick go from below average coach to greatness?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATRIOT64, Oct 27, 2007.

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  1. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

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    I always wondered what happened in Cleveland where BB did not have a very good overall record,Did he not have the guys or was he just not ready for coaching at the helm yet or did he learn slowly from working with legendary coaches like Parcells?

    Why was he not the master game planner and brilliant strategist that he has become?.

    I know there was a book on it or something regarding the sudden change but I always was curious to how he got so good when he was not very good in Cleveland.

    I am betting it was the Modell trying to move the team and other things within the FO that bothered him and affected his work.

    Its just something you really don't see in coaching,Usually you are either a good then great coach right from the getgo or you will suck and be average at best like a Norv Turner,Wade Phillips or Marty Schottenheimer who have never really come around....Yet

    Any educated response out there?

    Is it having guys like Brady (which doesn't hurt success) or something more that changed his coaching career totally around?
  2. Solaris

    Solaris Rookie

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    It's obvious, he has found a new way to cheat. I mean, how else could somebody possibly improve over time? I'm sure he couldn't learn from his mistakes and grow professionally and personally. :rolleyes:
  3. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What makes you say he was "below average"????? :confused::confused::confused:

    How long have you been listening to him in his press conferences?
    I doubt you were listening to his press conferences when he first came here.
    It only took a few press conferences for me to know he was something
    special.
    Remember just because a guy knows how to do something doesn't
    mean he is allowed to do it. Here in NE he was given the right
    environment to thrive. Yes Brady came along but he had to have the guts
    to go with him when he knew it was the right thing to do.

    Just listen to him talk in his press conferences and you will eventually come
    to know that he has been quite knowledgeable for a very long time.
  4. Patstopia

    Patstopia Rookie

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    I thought BB was mistreated by the crazy Cleveland fans at the time (and still). He got them to the playoffs the year before, but Modell was packing it up and BB was the scape goat. I think it was his misfortune to be in the wrong place at the wrong time!

    Fate has handed him a much better hand this time!
  5. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

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    I am not questioning how smart he was,I wonder how he became so good when with Cleveland he was something like 36-44 to start his HC career

    How did he go from a 45% winning coaching record to what he has accomplished now?

    Just because a coaches record is not good does not make him dumb,He probably was simply just not a good fit within the Cleveland organization.

    Modell could not put on Kraft's jock strap when it comes to ownership.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2007
  6. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He gets a bad rap in Cleveland for some things that weren't in his control, among other reasons. Kosar was finished, and he was the bad guy who pulled him. The team was moving, and he was at the helm when the squad tanked after learning about that. He did take the team from a joke to the playoffs, though, improving the squad from 3 wins to 11 wins over the course of 4 seasons before the move was announced and the walls came tumbling down. Having said that, he had to make improvements to his coaching style and learn how to deal with the media more successfully, and the time between gigs seems to have allowed him the time needed to grow more fully prepared to do what was needed.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2007
  7. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

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    Very good intelligent response and likely alot of truth behind it..Thanks
  8. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    Here is my opinion on the matter.

    I always thought that he was a great coach.

    He beat the Pats in the playoffs with Vinny T.

    The Browns/Ravens won a superbowl with some of the talent that Belichick helped select with Ozzie Newsome.

    The year that the Browns packed up, Belichick did have a fairly bad year. He got the brunt of the blame, and the old turdburglar owner dragged his name through all of the mud. He does deserve a little of the blame, but never all of it. The old owner was a absolute loser.

    I think that Kraft seen this as well...
  9. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    Here are a few reasons for his relative lack of success in Cleveland.

    1.Cleveland was coming off something like a 2 or 3 win season the year before BB came there. They were a HORRIBLE team with no talent. Things were different then and you didn't have the possibility of the instant FA help he had after the 2000 season.

    2. He didn't hit at the top of the draft like he has in NE. Tommy Vardel for example.

    3. He had a lousy owner.

    4. He wasn't as good as he is now. In other words he learned from his mistakes in dealing with the media and ownership what is and is not the right way to have things done. He wouldn't be as good as he is right now if he didn't have that negative experience in Cleveland.

    BOTTOM LINE: BB did a creditable job there. They went from a 3 win season BEFORE he got there and had a 6 win season his first year. He had 2 Seven win season before hitting their stride in 94 with an 11 win season and a play off win against the Pats. The next season they were 4-1 when Modell announced he was moving the team. It all went downhill from there, including the relationship between Modell and BB.
  10. sanvara

    sanvara Rookie

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    Marty Schottenheimer average at best? 205 wins and 139 losses. There are 8 coaches in NFL history with 200 wins. He doesn't belong on that list at all.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2007
  11. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

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    Too bad Marty can't coach in the playoffs. (5-13)
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2007
  12. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan Rookie

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    Most of my relatives are in northern Ohio, and despite the Browns underperforming during his time there, they actually had alot of NICE things to say about BB.

    If anything, they don't like Model, especially with all the fuss he made over moving the team, and the distractions it made.

    BTW-when BB came there, he inherited an old team with a duck-footed Bernie Kosar. He actually did the RIGHT thing by cutting him. And by the time he DID get success in yr 4, the crap hit the ceiling as Model wanted to jump ship.

    Pt being that TIMING has ALOT to do with the success of being a good coach.
  13. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan Rookie

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    For some reason-his players just seem so TENSE in the playoffs. That game you played against SD last year, the Chargers just did a ton of things that really made you scratch your head-boneheaded penalties, dropped passes, and pretty much every mental mistake you can think of that rookies do NOT make.

    Heck-they looked exactly like those KC teams of '95 and '97 that had the #1 seeds, but went one and out.

    BTW-why did Marty chose not to wear the headset in that game? If he did, he could have saved a TO on that poor challenge on Troy Brown's forced fumble, and he could have paged Cam to keep running the ball in the 2nd half when, for some reason, he went pass happy.
  14. Mogamedogz

    Mogamedogz Rookie

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    Just read the book: "The education of a coach" by David Halberstein

    It will clear everything up for you.
  15. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    I'd agree with that completely. He was quite arrogant and part of it was he thought he was being tough like Parcells. Of course they are very different personalities.

    Now he answers everyone's questions, he just doesn't give the answers reporters and others want to hear. Back then he didn't feel he had to explain his reasons for anything to reporters, fans or players. He doesn't waver in his judgments, but he is very sensitive to players feelings about certain moves.
  16. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    ohh, cmon guys....the reason BB is so good in NE was b/c all these years he has been using cameras on the sidelines to tape defensive signals...nvm that those signals change, that the opposite team also taped...

    u just watch, this year, without being able to tape signals...hes gonna suck again...

    wut was that? the pats are 7-0?
  17. smg93

    smg93 Rookie

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    Relationship with Scott Pioli and the fact that at the end of the day, he still has final say of personell, game strategy and tactics here in new england which he didn't have in Cleveland.

    Of course, experience over the years never hurts either.
  18. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When you read just about everything there has been written about this man one thing strikes me, is that he continually "reinvents" himself. From going fishing with Jimmy Johnson after a superbowl to pick his brain to visiting with Billy Donovan in Florida.. what he does is purposeful, he goes the best and picks and chooses what he needs to keep himself the best.

    The second part, is that he takes it for the team, he could have in the spygate diverted attention from himself... but he took the hit directly and did not strike back in the press, he is striking back on the field.. and this is the best way to handle this.

    He is misunderstood in the press, Easterbrook et al, and that is intentional the more they focus on him, the less they focus on the players.. that is not for his personal gratification or self engranizement.. but to keep the players focused on what they need to do.

    He is probably the most intelligent HC right now.. the stuff that is written on him indicates this.. he is a very smart man.

    I could go on and on.. but it is a maturational thing, and he has continued to grow.. rather than standing still.
  19. Pat the Pats Fan

    Pat the Pats Fan Rookie

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    He has a great owner now that let's the coach and GM do their job. Modell never could do that. Modell likes being friends with the players, and that will always get in the way of personnel decisions. He fought with Belichick over the Kosar issue and how it was presented to the Cleveland fans.

    Many forget, but Modell fired another great coach, Paul Brown......
  20. LoveDemPats

    LoveDemPats Rookie

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    Well, that is because they have not played anybody yet. ;)
  21. LoveDemPats

    LoveDemPats Rookie

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    Oh, and also, the only reason that he has won anything is because of Weiss and Romeo, so you just wait until he doesn't have them around.

    Remember this crap too?
  22. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    That's what I think. Kraft is the dream owner coaches would kill to work for. Compare working in NE to working in places like Atlanta, Oakland, Dallas, Buffalo...places where the owner is the story. This is why BB will end his career in New England. There are no greener pastures.
  23. homergreg

    homergreg Rookie

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    Belichick was the Browns Coach before the current Salary Cap system went into full effect. That system really changed how NFL teams are scouted and managed. He has a great ability to manage the cap.






    Plus he drafted Tom Brady.
  24. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    He got Tom Brady.

    A high school coach could look like a genius with Tom Brady. Yes, Belichick is one of the all-time greats, but man was that ever a stroke of good luck.
  25. LaBrady

    LaBrady Rookie

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    BB was never below average.

    BB already had 2 SB rings when he started in Cleveland. And I do believe BB was in charge of one of the best defenses in NFL history with the Giants. Weren't they the ones stopping great offenses like 49ers and Bills in the playoffs.

    Now in Cleveland BB came to a ****ty ass team (as usual) and the team did improve just not to the point of being SB contender. And BB didn''t have full control of operations either. Thats all.

    Whoever says that BB started cheating is total moron and an ignorant idiot!
  26. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    I'm going to give it up here for Dick Rehbein--Brady was his choice.
  27. Pat the Pats Fan

    Pat the Pats Fan Rookie

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    Luck????? 30 other coaches had the opportunity to draft Brady at least 5 times each! They all passed!!!!!!! I guess the other NFL coaches aren't even good enough to be high school coaches?
    Belichick scouted him and took him when he thought it was a good value....that's not luck.....that's all about finding, coaching and developing talent.....
  28. primetime

    primetime Rookie

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    It's luck. Bledsoe going down was luck.

    How many other 6th round QBs have had the potential Brady does and just never got their chance? I'm sorry, the Patriots got incredibly lucky with Tom Brady. We, as fans, got incredibly lucky with Tom Brady. It's a one-in-a-billion thing that happened. If the Patriots had thought Tom Brady was a future Hall of Famer (and possibly the best ever) coming out, why'd they wait until the sixth round?
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2007
  29. godef

    godef Rookie

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    Belichick's failure in Cleveland had more to do with perception than reality. People forget that he took Cleveland to the play-offs (they beat us for chrissakes!). But then the franchised announced their move to Baltimore and it all collapsed, no coach could have succeeded in that mess. And before that, he benched the ultra-popular Bernie Kosar and put in Testerverde (this was a proper move, Bernie had lost it).

    And don't forget, he was 5-11 with us his first year. And then came Brady, whom we (at least some of us) are only really beginning to understand his greatness this year. Every dynastic coach has had a great quarterback, it's a part of the total puzzle.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2007
  30. Pat the Pats Fan

    Pat the Pats Fan Rookie

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    Sorry, got to disagree......ever heard of Johnny Unitas? drafted and cut, no one picked him up for a year......Ryan Leaf, Jeff George, Rick Mirer, maybe even Mike Vick, all 1st round picks that were absolute busts.......Belichick has had better success developing talent from the lower rounds than many teams have had with their #1's.

    And on the Bledsoe injury......many a coach would have given Bledsoe his starting job back mid season......
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