How did Belichick go from below average coach to greatness?

[PATRIOT64]

I always wondered what happened in Cleveland where BB did not have a very good overall record,Did he not have the guys or was he just not ready for coaching at the helm yet or did he learn slowly from working with legendary coaches like Parcells?

Why was he not the master game planner and brilliant strategist that he has become?.

I know there was a book on it or something regarding the sudden change but I always was curious to how he got so good when he was not very good in Cleveland.

I am betting it was the Modell trying to move the team and other things within the FO that bothered him and affected his work.

Its just something you really don't see in coaching,Usually you are either a good then great coach right from the getgo or you will suck and be average at best like a Norv Turner,Wade Phillips or Marty Schottenheimer who have never really come around....Yet

Any educated response out there?

Is it having guys like Brady (which doesn't hurt success) or something more that changed his coaching career totally around?

 

[Solaris]

It's obvious, he has found a new way to cheat. I mean, how else could somebody possibly improve over time? I'm sure he couldn't learn from his mistakes and grow professionally and personally.

 

[JR4]

What makes you say he was "below average"?????

How long have you been listening to him in his press conferences?
I doubt you were listening to his press conferences when he first came here.
It only took a few press conferences for me to know he was something
special.
Remember just because a guy knows how to do something doesn't
mean he is allowed to do it. Here in NE he was given the right
environment to thrive. Yes Brady came along but he had to have the guts
to go with him when he knew it was the right thing to do.

Just listen to him talk in his press conferences and you will eventually come
to know that he has been quite knowledgeable for a very long time.

 

[Patstopia]

I thought BB was mistreated by the crazy Cleveland fans at the time (and still). He got them to the playoffs the year before, but Modell was packing it up and BB was the scape goat. I think it was his misfortune to be in the wrong place at the wrong time!

Fate has handed him a much better hand this time!

 

[PATRIOT64]

What makes you say he was "below average"?????

How long have you been listening to him in his press conferences?
I doubt you were listening to his press conferences when he first came here.
It only took a few press conferences for me to know he was something
special.
Remember just because a guy knows how to do something doesn't
mean he is allowed to do it. Here in NE he was given the right
environment to thrive. Yes Brady came along but he had to have the guts
to go with him when he knew it was the right thing to do.

Just listen to him talk in his press conferences and you will eventually come
to know that he has been quite knowledgeable for a very long time.

I am not questioning how smart he was,I wonder how he became so good when with Cleveland he was something like 36-44 to start his HC career

How did he go from a 45% winning coaching record to what he has accomplished now?

Just because a coaches record is not good does not make him dumb,He probably was simply just not a good fit within the Cleveland organization.

Modell could not put on Kraft's jock strap when it comes to ownership.

 

[Deus Irae]

I am not questioning how smart he was,I wonder how he became so good when with Cleveland he was something like 36-44 to start his HC career

How did he go from a 45% winning coaching record to what he has accomplished now?

Just because a coaches record is not good does not make him dumb,He probably was simply just not a good fit within the Cleveland organization.

He gets a bad rap in Cleveland for some things that weren't in his control, among other reasons. Kosar was finished, and he was the bad guy who pulled him. The team was moving, and he was at the helm when the squad tanked after learning about that. He did take the team from a joke to the playoffs, though, improving the squad from 3 wins to 11 wins over the course of 4 seasons before the move was announced and the walls came tumbling down. Having said that, he had to make improvements to his coaching style and learn how to deal with the media more successfully, and the time between gigs seems to have allowed him the time needed to grow more fully prepared to do what was needed.

 

[PATRIOT64]

He gets a bad rap in Cleveland for some things that weren't in his control, among other reasons. Kosar was finished, and he was the bad guy who pulled him. The team was moving, and he was at the helm when the squad tanked after learning about that. He did take the team from a joke to the playoffs, though, improving the squad from 3 wins to 11 wins over the course of 4 seasons before the move was announced and the walls came tumbling down. Having said that, he had to make improvements to his coaching style and learn how to deal with the media more successfully, and the time between gigs seems to have allowed him the time needed to grow more fully prepared to do what was needed.

Very good intelligent response and likely alot of truth behind it..Thanks

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

I always wondered what happened in Cleveland where BB did not have a very good overall record,Did he not have the guys or was he just not ready for coaching at the helm yet or did he learn slowly from working with legendary coaches like Parcells?

Why was he not the master game planner and brilliant strategist that he has become?.

I know there was a book on it or something regarding the sudden change but I always was curious to how he got so good when he was not very good in Cleveland.

I am betting it was the Modell trying to move the team and other things within the FO that bothered him and affected his work.

Its just something you really don't see in coaching,Usually you are either a good then great coach right from the getgo or you will suck and be average at best like a Norv Turner,Wade Phillips or Marty Schottenheimer who have never really come around....Yet

Any educated response out there?

Is it having guys like Brady (which doesn't hurt success) or something more that changed his coaching career totally around?

Here is my opinion on the matter.

I always thought that he was a great coach.

He beat the Pats in the playoffs with Vinny T.

The Browns/Ravens won a superbowl with some of the talent that Belichick helped select with Ozzie Newsome.

The year that the Browns packed up, Belichick did have a fairly bad year. He got the brunt of the blame, and the old turdburglar owner dragged his name through all of the mud. He does deserve a little of the blame, but never all of it. The old owner was a absolute loser.

I think that Kraft seen this as well...

 

[patfanken]

Here are a few reasons for his relative lack of success in Cleveland.

1.Cleveland was coming off something like a 2 or 3 win season the year before BB came there. They were a HORRIBLE team with no talent. Things were different then and you didn't have the possibility of the instant FA help he had after the 2000 season.

2. He didn't hit at the top of the draft like he has in NE. Tommy Vardel for example.

3. He had a lousy owner.

4. He wasn't as good as he is now. In other words he learned from his mistakes in dealing with the media and ownership what is and is not the right way to have things done. He wouldn't be as good as he is right now if he didn't have that negative experience in Cleveland.

BOTTOM LINE: BB did a creditable job there. They went from a 3 win season BEFORE he got there and had a 6 win season his first year. He had 2 Seven win season before hitting their stride in 94 with an 11 win season and a play off win against the Pats. The next season they were 4-1 when Modell announced he was moving the team. It all went downhill from there, including the relationship between Modell and BB.

 

[sanvara]

Its just something you really don't see in coaching,Usually you are either a good then great coach right from the getgo or you will suck and be average at best like a Norv Turner,Wade Phillips or Marty Schottenheimer who have never really come around....Yet

Marty Schottenheimer average at best? 205 wins and 139 losses. There are 8 coaches in NFL history with 200 wins. He doesn't belong on that list at all.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Marty Schottenheimer average at best? 205 wins and 139 losses. There are 8 coaches in NFL history with 200 wins. He doesn't belong on that list at all.

Too bad Marty can't coach in the playoffs. (5-13)

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

I always wondered what happened in Cleveland where BB did not have a very good overall record,Did he not have the guys or was he just not ready for coaching at the helm yet or did he learn slowly from working with legendary coaches like Parcells?

Why was he not the master game planner and brilliant strategist that he has become?.

I know there was a book on it or something regarding the sudden change but I always was curious to how he got so good when he was not very good in Cleveland.

I am betting it was the Modell trying to move the team and other things within the FO that bothered him and affected his work.

Its just something you really don't see in coaching,Usually you are either a good then great coach right from the getgo or you will suck and be average at best like a Norv Turner,Wade Phillips or Marty Schottenheimer who have never really come around....Yet

Any educated response out there?

Is it having guys like Brady (which doesn't hurt success) or something more that changed his coaching career totally around?

Most of my relatives are in northern Ohio, and despite the Browns underperforming during his time there, they actually had alot of NICE things to say about BB.

If anything, they don't like Model, especially with all the fuss he made over moving the team, and the distractions it made.

BTW-when BB came there, he inherited an old team with a duck-footed Bernie Kosar. He actually did the RIGHT thing by cutting him. And by the time he DID get success in yr 4, the crap hit the ceiling as Model wanted to jump ship.

Pt being that TIMING has ALOT to do with the success of being a good coach.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Too bad Marty can't coach in the playoffs. (5-13)

For some reason-his players just seem so TENSE in the playoffs. That game you played against SD last year, the Chargers just did a ton of things that really made you scratch your head-boneheaded penalties, dropped passes, and pretty much every mental mistake you can think of that rookies do NOT make.

Heck-they looked exactly like those KC teams of '95 and '97 that had the #1 seeds, but went one and out.

BTW-why did Marty chose not to wear the headset in that game? If he did, he could have saved a TO on that poor challenge on Troy Brown's forced fumble, and he could have paged Cam to keep running the ball in the 2nd half when, for some reason, he went pass happy.

 

[Mogamedogz]

I always wondered what happened in Cleveland where BB did not have a very good overall record,Did he not have the guys or was he just not ready for coaching at the helm yet or did he learn slowly from working with legendary coaches like Parcells?

Why was he not the master game planner and brilliant strategist that he has become?.

I know there was a book on it or something regarding the sudden change but I always was curious to how he got so good when he was not very good in Cleveland.

I am betting it was the Modell trying to move the team and other things within the FO that bothered him and affected his work.

Its just something you really don't see in coaching,Usually you are either a good then great coach right from the getgo or you will suck and be average at best like a Norv Turner,Wade Phillips or Marty Schottenheimer who have never really come around....Yet

Any educated response out there?

Is it having guys like Brady (which doesn't hurt success) or something more that changed his coaching career totally around?

Just read the book: "The education of a coach" by David Halberstein

It will clear everything up for you.

 

[RayClay]

Here are a few reasons for his relative lack of success in Cleveland.

1.Cleveland was coming off something like a 2 or 3 win season the year before BB came there. They were a HORRIBLE team with no talent. Things were different then and you didn't have the possibility of the instant FA help he had after the 2000 season.

2. He didn't hit at the top of the draft like he has in NE. Tommy Vardel for example.

3. He had a lousy owner.

4. He wasn't as good as he is now. In other words he learned from his mistakes in dealing with the media and ownership what is and is not the right way to have things done. He wouldn't be as good as he is right now if he didn't have that negative experience in Cleveland.

BOTTOM LINE: BB did a creditable job there. They went from a 3 win season BEFORE he got there and had a 6 win season his first year. He had 2 Seven win season before hitting their stride in 94 with an 11 win season and a play off win against the Pats. The next season they were 4-1 when Modell announced he was moving the team. It all went downhill from there, including the relationship between Modell and BB.

I'd agree with that completely. He was quite arrogant and part of it was he thought he was being tough like Parcells. Of course they are very different personalities.

Now he answers everyone's questions, he just doesn't give the answers reporters and others want to hear. Back then he didn't feel he had to explain his reasons for anything to reporters, fans or players. He doesn't waver in his judgments, but he is very sensitive to players feelings about certain moves.

 

[ALP]

ohh, cmon guys....the reason BB is so good in NE was b/c all these years he has been using cameras on the sidelines to tape defensive signals...nvm that those signals change, that the opposite team also taped...

u just watch, this year, without being able to tape signals...hes gonna suck again...

wut was that? the pats are 7-0?

 

[smg93]

Relationship with Scott Pioli and the fact that at the end of the day, he still has final say of personell, game strategy and tactics here in new england which he didn't have in Cleveland.

Of course, experience over the years never hurts either.

 

[DarrylS]

When you read just about everything there has been written about this man one thing strikes me, is that he continually "reinvents" himself. From going fishing with Jimmy Johnson after a superbowl to pick his brain to visiting with Billy Donovan in Florida.. what he does is purposeful, he goes the best and picks and chooses what he needs to keep himself the best.

The second part, is that he takes it for the team, he could have in the spygate diverted attention from himself... but he took the hit directly and did not strike back in the press, he is striking back on the field.. and this is the best way to handle this.

He is misunderstood in the press, Easterbrook et al, and that is intentional the more they focus on him, the less they focus on the players.. that is not for his personal gratification or self engranizement.. but to keep the players focused on what they need to do.

He is probably the most intelligent HC right now.. the stuff that is written on him indicates this.. he is a very smart man.

I could go on and on.. but it is a maturational thing, and he has continued to grow.. rather than standing still.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

He has a great owner now that let's the coach and GM do their job. Modell never could do that. Modell likes being friends with the players, and that will always get in the way of personnel decisions. He fought with Belichick over the Kosar issue and how it was presented to the Cleveland fans.

Many forget, but Modell fired another great coach, Paul Brown......

 

[LoveDemPats]

ohh, cmon guys....the reason BB is so good in NE was b/c all these years he has been using cameras on the sidelines to tape defensive signals...nvm that those signals change, that the opposite team also taped...

u just watch, this year, without being able to tape signals...hes gonna suck again...

wut was that? the pats are 7-0?

Well, that is because they have not played anybody yet.