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Has Coach Bill The Mad (Genius) Jumped The Shark??


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Yeah, Darolyn's a bit...OFF, shall we say?? :rolleyes:

Give him a chance, he's very new here (in terms of posting, anyway) and I think he's got some good football knowledge. He can maybe can tone it down a bit, but over the years I've a bunch of posters start off a bit bumpy and then figure out how to get their points across better and better.

This thread is fantastic. We've gone from Fonzie to Genghis Khan and Hannibal to Connor Barwin. Seriously, breaking down the military strategy in the battle for Stalingrad? Other military stuff I could barely understand? Awesome!

:verycool:
 
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3) By just looking at what happened on a Sunday you're ignoring a ton of things which go into success and failure, things which begin at the top. We've had a history of melting down on defense at critical for years, why is that? If it's coaching then what is being done that's different from what's previously done? Is it scheme, if so how is the current scheme different? What about personnel, what changes have been made in the way personnel are evaluated and selected? Dunlap, Wallace, Veldheer, Mangold, Barwin, the list goes on and on

My friend, it's time to start actually watching football.

Was the Sunday 'meltdown" disappointing?

Yup

Where your problem lies is a lack of understanding of that dynamic.

Sunday night, the Stealers lost because they gave up a 2 minute/92 yard drive to Joe Flacco and lost 23-20. This was only needed because the the "vaunted", "elite" Ravens defense pukued up 2 4th quarter TD's that were continually extended by 3rd and long passes by R'berger.

So based on this I guess this means the Steeler defense sucks. Afterall, they gave up a longer game winning drive to an inferior offense...that was only needed because the other "elite" defense melted down against another inferior offense.

What's up with the Connor Barwin obsession? Doesn't he play for Houston? If he's so great, why didn't he prevent the the abject defensive "meltdown" of the Houston defense against New Orleans and Oakland?

The lesson here is having Connor Barwin on the roster means a 100% greater probability of a 4th quarter meltdown.

I agree surrendering this type of TD sucks.

Your problem is you don't comprehend that this type of activity occurrs on a regular basis in the NFL.

Case in point:

The 2011 Jets defense is considered not as good as the 2010 defense that's.....not as good as the 2009 version.

Go back and study the 2009 9-7 Jets season.

Five (5) games lost because that "elite" defense puked five (5) 4th quarter leads.

The only logical conclusion I see is you believe units and personnel are elite by their overriding propensity to puke up 4th quarter leads and lose games.

I prefer the sucky defenses you make 4th quarter lead surrenders rare and far between.

Maybe you and Off the Grid can shed some light on why no Welker extension cost us the game Sunday.

iceberg-poster.jpg


An iceberg isn't just the part you see above the water, it's also the part that you don't see.

The Steelers didnt lose because of just that one play, they lost because of that and every other play which all played a part in the ultimate outcome, those other plays would be represented by the iceberg under the water.

As for Welker, him not being extended didnt cost us on Sunday but it might cost us games next year because the extra money needed to sign him could prevent the signing of another player, again represented by the iceberg under the water.

As for Barwin, if you're not familiar with him then you're obviously not a real Patriot's fan:D
 
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We feel the Barwin non-pick with the same amount of rage and sorrow as the Romans did the moss of those legions, it's practically the same thing:D

The similarity between Cannae and Mongol tactics is the flexibility and yeilding involved which allowed the encirclement, Hannibal led with his center and allowed it to get pushed back, he allowed the Romans to encircle themselves with his line, the Mongols practiced tactical yeilding all the time, you could even argue that the 'beend but dont break' defense is an application of that idea, assuming you actually stop the enemy.

My analysis of Stalingrad isn't irrelevant, there are several key points in that which could easily be applied:
1) attack when the enemy is weak -> they should have resigned Welker last offseason when the price would have been low, they're going to have to pay alot more now. I wouldnt have waited so long to sign Mankins, waiting is what led to the Jahri Evans getting his monster deal with caused the debacle with Mankins. This can also be applied to running an offense, it's called "taking what the defense gives you". Common themes.

2) Hitler erred by not making up his mind, a mistake he would repeat throughout the war, if he wanted to take Stalingrad he could have easily done so earlier, if he wanted to ignore it and make a drive to the Caucus region he should have done that. In the words of the immortal Mr. Miyagi "Karate do, guess so, squish, just like grape".

3) By just looking at what happened on a Sunday you're ignoring a ton of things which go into success and failure, things which begin at the top. We've had a history of melting down on defense at critical for years, why is that? If it's coaching then what is being done that's different from what's previously done? Is it scheme, if so how is the current scheme different? What about personnel, what changes have been made in the way personnel are evaluated and selected? Dunlap, Wallace, Veldheer, Mangold, Barwin, the list goes on and on.

Geesh

OK where do we begin?

First, we need to get you informed of actual events in the summer of 1942.

The German offensive began 28 June with 4th Panzer Army attacking the Soviet defenses north of Kharkov (around Kursk) with the objective of reaching the head waters of the Don at Vorenezh.

The initial phase was designed to split the Soviet defenses and isolate the Soviet southern wing while fooling the Soviets into thinking this was a repeat of the drive on Moscow the year before.

In 10 days, 4th Panzer reached the Don and in conjunction with 6th Army swept south with the Don guarding it's eastern flank and 2nd Army guarding the northern flank.

This was unbelievably successful, Rostov was captured 23 July and 1st Panzer and 17th Army began the drive toward the oil fileds.

Here is the point you don't grasp.

It's at this point, the Germans decided to send everyone south. 6th Army was stripped of it's armour and fuel and these units along with 4th Panzer were sent south.

6th Army did continue toward the Volga with 16th Panzer division reaching the Volga north of Stalingrad a few days after the Don was crossed on 23 August.

If 6th Army continued to the Volga and captured the city in July the end would not been ultimately different. Why?

The ultimate bonehead move. Having your forces defend a front thats over extended. When the city is captured never alters the ultimate bonehead.

The ultimate bonehead move. Four turnovers in a game with 2 of them in scoring position that means a minimum 10 point swing.

Where is Captain Obvious these days?
 
Maybe you and Off the Grid can shed some light on why no Welker extension cost us the game Sunday.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

You REALLY got to work on the old Attention Span, Bro. ;)

We're not talking about individual games.

I have no idea why you're still confused about that. :confused:

But I'll leave you two to your discussion. :)
 
Give him a chance, he's very new here (in terms of posting, anyway) and I think he's got some good football knowledge. He can maybe can tone it down a bit, but over the years I've a bunch of posters start off a bit bumpy and then figure out how to get their points across better and better.

This thread is fantastic. We've gone from Fonzie to Genghis Khan and Hannibal to Connor Barwin. Seriously, breaking down the military strategy in the battle for Stalingrad? Other military stuff I could barely understand? Awesome!

:verycool:

Yeah, it's been a WILD one, hasn't it?? :rocker:
 
iceberg-poster.jpg


An iceberg isn't just the part you see above the water, it's also the part that you don't see.

The Steelers didnt lose because of just that one play, they lost because of that and every other play which all played a part in the ultimate outcome, those other plays would be represented by the iceberg under the water.

As for Welker, him not being extended didnt cost us on Sunday but it might cost us games next year because the extra money needed to sign him could prevent the signing of another player, again represented by the iceberg under the water.

As for Barwin, if you're not familiar with him then you're obviously not a real Patriot's fan:D


I don't follow Barwin because I don't follow players who contribute to 4th quarter meltdown after 4th quarter meltdown.

Barwin= 4th quarter defensive meltdowns.

Review the Houston tape.
 
Yeah, it's been a WILD one, hasn't it?? :rocker:

Best advice in life I ever got?

Someone once told me that whatever you are doing, figure out the dumbest thing you could do....and don't do it.

Even the "Most Interesting Man Alive" is giving that advice.

It's universal.

Stay thirsty my friend.
 
I don't follow Barwin because I don't follow players who contribute to 4th quarter meltdown after 4th quarter meltdown.

Barwin= 4th quarter defensive meltdowns.

Review the Houston tape.

Patriots against the Giants = 4th Quarter Meltdown, do you follow the Patriots?

The only relevant question is whether Barwin would have been a smarter pick than who we drafted prior to when Barwin was taken, in the 2nd round it's Ron Brace and Darius Butler.

In the Houston games I've seen this year Barwin looked very solid, so, since Butler stunk and was release I think Barwin is looking better by the minute.

127883003_crop_450x500.jpg


Last but CERTAINLY not least, Patchick herself said Barwin would have looked MAGNIFICENT in a Patriot's uniform. I think this is pretty much case closed!
 
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MY DAUGHTER (13 years old): It seems as though Bill Belichick has been making a lot of mistakes recently.

ME: Some people think so, but you have to remember that this man won three Superbowls.

DAUGHTER: Perhaps he's getting old.
 
On offense, just bring back Charlie Weis. (I'm not joking)

On defense, look down below.
 
Was it Halberstam that first said he was playing chess while the rest of the league was playing checkers? Anyway, whoever said it, since that first super bowl, it's been 10 years for the league to respond and catch up to Bill.

I'd still rather have him as head coach than any other one in the league, but the gap is not what it once was. There was a time when he could mask any shortcoming, and truth be told, at least on D, the shortcomings were less.

Right now this D isn't where it needs to be to have a shot at anything bigger than an AFC east title.

Well put sir
 
Patriots against the Giants = 4th Quarter Meltdown, do you follow the Patriots?

The only relevant question is whether Barwin would have been a smarter pick than who we drafted prior to when Barwin was taken, in the 2nd round it's Ron Brace and Darius Butler.

In the Houston games I've seen this year Barwin looked very solid, so, since Butler stunk and was release I think Barwin is looking better by the minute.

127883003_crop_450x500.jpg


Last but CERTAINLY not least, Patchick herself said Barwin would have looked MAGNIFICENT in a Patriot's uniform. I think this is pretty much case closed!

Sure Barwin would help......by making sure we actually lost to Dallas, San Diego,....

The guy is a 4th quarter meltdown machine.

Draft Connor Barwin to lose in the 4th quarter.
 
Sure Barwin would help......by making sure we actually lost to Dallas, San Diego,....

The guy is a 4th quarter meltdown machine.

Draft Connor Barwin to lose in the 4th quarter.

Yeah cuz, Arrington, White, and Brown played soooo well in the last 4th quarter.....

BB hasn't even attempted to draft a pass rusher, he just keeps throwing darts at DBs and has come up EMPTY! Now the Pats might field an all undrafted rookie free agent defensive backfield next week!

So BB spent 5 FIRST OR SECOND round picks on DBs in the last five drafts and Sunday TWO of them, will take the field. The rest are gone........

Look if you can't cover (and they can't) then you have to rush the passer.....
 
Yeah cuz, Arrington, White, and Brown played soooo well in the last 4th quarter.....

BB hasn't even attempted to draft a pass rusher, he just keeps throwing darts at DBs and has come up EMPTY! Now the Pats might field an all undrafted rookie free agent defensive backfield next week!

So BB spent 5 FIRST OR SECOND round picks on DBs in the last five drafts and Sunday TWO of them, will take the field. The rest are gone........

Look if you can't cover (and they can't) then you have to rush the passer.....
Well put Sir
 
Sure Barwin would help......by making sure we actually lost to Dallas, San Diego,....

The guy is a 4th quarter meltdown machine.

Draft Connor Barwin to lose in the 4th quarter.

Barwin is a meltdown machine, based on what?
 
Barwin is a meltdown machine, based on what?
Yeah and how does a OLB melt down, meltdowns are usually the property of QB's and HC's
 
I'm baffled by some of the moves in the secondary, but then again I'm like a dog looking at a magic trick comparing my knowledge of winning football to Belichicks.

My take on this is that he's turning around a lot of the team in a short time, trying some vets until D Line can be solidified and wants to make sure he doesn't lose the great attitude he's getting from young players.

You can cover up for a few less than supremely talented players, but you can't reverse losing a whole team as far as learning to play hard, prepare and work together. A lot of this might have been worked out in minicamps and the off season if we'd had much of one.

Look at the documentary about getting this team to perform etc. with one sour apple in Adalius Thomas. Too many young players to lose by example if players are allowed to dog it IMO.

I could see great talents like Hernandez and Spikes (for example) going the other way if team discipline wasn't maintained, this stuff is not easy.
 
I love every move he makes because i know he knows better than every fan on a message board...heck, even the worst coach in the NFL knows more about the game than any of us.


That is exactly the kind of fanboy drivel that the Patriots do not need. I fully acknowledge that coach Belichick has been great coach and has forgotten more about football than I will ever know.

At the same time this is a game. These coaches aren't curing cancer or sending men to Mars. What they do is fairly simple in the grand scheme of things and they are not above criticism. The term "genius" is really thrown around pretty liberally when talking about guys who coach football games.
 
I have already posted this link in other threads, but this article really sums up this season so far. And I think unless there is a massive turnaround will be the blueprint for what went wrong this year.

10 Critical Mistakes the New England Patriots Have Made in 2011

Glad to see George Cain has all the answers. Who is he? Godfathers Pizza?

Seriously, they are looking at Woodhead and I have a feeling they're deciding whether or not to cut him. Just speculation on my part.
 
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