Greg Bedard on Brady vs Garopollo

[Brady6]

But he's been good in the games and that's what matters. All I can say is that three years is a long time in football. Two years ago, Peyton was breaking offensive records and going to the SB. Two years later and he's virtually done and almost certainly playing his last season.

Brady is not Manning, he takes much better care of himself and does not have major neck issues. Also Manning being done remains to be seen, he could rebound just fine this year.

 

[Zeus]

Brady and Garappolo are both under contract through the end of 2017. That's three full seasons of football to be played.

We'll know a lot more about both players (how Brady is aging and how Garoppolo is developing) in three years. No point in making any hasty judgments either way right now.

I'm rooting for both players to be the best they can be. If Brady proves to be ageless, that's awesome. If Garoppolo were to overtake Brady, so be it.

 

[Marinlik]

You should market yourself as a QB whisperer to teams like the Dolphins who struggled for years to find a good QB or the Jets (ditto) or the teams that drafted Ponder, Locker, Manuel and Weeden in the first round. Unless you're picking in the top 5, quality QBs are extremely difficult to find. They don't grow on trees as you seem to think.

And to add to that: Even if you pick in the top 5 a quality QB can be hard to find.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

I've always felt that great things were in store for Brady and not just in football. He can do a lot with life, even if he isn't suiting up for the field....but I digress

 

[manxman2601]

Brady and Garappolo are both under contract through the end of 2017. That's three full seasons of football to be played.

We'll know a lot more about both players (how Brady is aging and how Garoppolo is developing) in three years. No point in making any hasty judgments either way right now.

I'm rooting for both players to be the best they can be. If Brady proves to be ageless, that's awesome. If Garoppolo were to overtake Brady, so be it.

100% agree.

 

[manxman2601]

Brady is not Manning, he takes much better care of himself and does not have major neck issues. Also Manning being done remains to be seen, he could rebound just fine this year.

We shall see.

 

[supafly]

This has come up before and I have asked posters to show me a comment where Kraft mentioned any % that would be all he would pay a QB, and I've never seen it and it usually turns into commentary about how Kraft thinks and of course that means, blah, blah, blah, so it would be very helpful if you could point me to those comments.
Not saying they don't exist, but my feeling is they are like a lot of things discussed on this board where people give their opinion and it later turns into fact.

I believe that they were spoken in at least one/two interviews, Andy. When I am home on the PC and not trying to type on my phone, I will try to find a quote. In the meantime, that's your choice to believe it or not, or to try and find an old article.

REGARDING THEIR IDEAL FRANCHISE QB:

If we already know that 10 percent is unreasonable and unlikely to occur (Brady's current deal) and 18 percent is too high, (comments made to the reporter that have been quoted in this thread), then the 12-15 preference they've alluded to really shouldn't surprise you, should it?

In other words, whether you choose to believe it or not, what would you feel that the ideal percentage of the yearly cap should be spent on a franchise QB, if it's not 12-15?

The "15 percent" high range of things would mean approx. 1/7 of the 143m dollar cap. Off the top of my head and judging by some of the past pacts they've given to Brady, that's pretty competitive. So, in other words, they are willing to pay between approx. 17-20m dollars for a franchise QB under normal circumstances, if you base it off of this year's salary cap. I don't understand what you feel would be so unbelievable with that?

 

[Brady6]

But he's been good in the games and that's what matters. All I can say is that three years is a long time in football. Two years ago, Peyton was breaking offensive records and going to the SB. Two years later and he's virtually done and almost certainly playing his last season.

How good Garoppolo is will be determined when he is playing against first string defenders who have a book on him and a game plan to defend him. He has never faced that.

 

[manxman2601]

How good Garoppolo is will be determined when he is playing against first string defenders who have a book on him and a game plan to defend him. He has never faced that.

You could have said the same thing about Luck coming out of Stanford. Projection is by definition a prediction of the future based upon available evidence. I watch him in the same way I do college prospects and I like the traits I see. His quick release has nothing to do with which defences he plays against and neither does his accuracy really. I don't know why you are so down on Jimmy. Embrace the fact that we've got a good backup QB.

 

[Ring 6]

I believe that they were spoken in at least one/two interviews, Andy. When I am home on the PC and not trying to type on my phone, I will try to find a quote. In the meantime, that's your choice to believe it or not, or to try and find an old article.

REGARDING THEIR IDEAL FRANCHISE QB:

If we already know that 10 percent is unreasonable and unlikely to occur (Brady's current deal) and 18 percent is too high, (comments made to the reporter that have been quoted in this thread), then the 12-15 preference they've alluded to really shouldn't surprise you, should it?

In other words, whether you choose to believe it or not, what would you feel that the ideal percentage of the yearly cap should be spent on a franchise QB, if it's not 12-15?

The "15 percent" high range of things would mean approx. 1/7 of the 143m dollar cap. Off the top of my head and judging by some of the past pacts they've given to Brady, that's pretty competitive. So, in other words, they are willing to pay between approx. 17-20m dollars for a franchise QB under normal circumstances, if you base it off of this year's salary cap. I don't understand what you feel would be so unbelievable with that?

But that's just it, my position is that they do not just have an allocation, but it is subject to who the player is and many other factors.
We have seen that across the board with many positions. Revis certainly exceeded what they appear to cap the #1 cb at, Mankins any G pay, etc, etc.
Of course they are going to be financially responsible but indicating that there is a percentage they will pay and if refusing to go over it by 3mill causes them to lose Tom Brady and get the QB who will play for 3 mill less, that is just not the way they do business in my opinion.

People here insist on drawing bright lines and calling them Patriot philosophy and if there is anything we have learned is that there is no bright line other than doing the best thing for the football team.

EDIT: Not implying you are 'people' in the above, just a generalization.

 

[Brady6]

You could have said the same thing about Luck coming out of Stanford. Projection is by definition a prediction of the future based upon available evidence. I watch him in the same way I do college prospects and I like the traits I see. His quick release has nothing to do with which defences he plays against and neither does his accuracy really. I don't know why you are so down on Jimmy. Embrace the fact that we've got a good backup QB.

I'm not down on Garoppolo. I like him as a prospect but I think his ceiling is limited and I am concerned about his lack of development from season 1 to season 2. I would have expected a much improved player and I have seen basically the same player as I did as a rookie.

 

[JackBauer]

I'm not down on Garoppolo. I like him as a prospect but I think his ceiling is limited and I am concerned about his lack of development from season 1 to season 2. I would have expected a much improved player and I have seen basically the same player as I did as a rookie.

Hmm. He looks markedly better to me (decision making, primarily) now than he did last year.

 

[manxman2601]

I'm not down on Garoppolo. I like him as a prospect but I think his ceiling is limited and I am concerned about his lack of development from season 1 to season 2. I would have expected a much improved player and I have seen basically the same player as I did as a rookie.

1. Aside from Josh bloody Boyce, Garoppolo had very few incompletions against the Packers and only missed on four passes against the Saints. I don't know what else you are wanting to see. What sort of improvement beyond completing lots of passes and engineering TD drives and come from behind wins?

 

[Zeus]

I missed the second half Saturday night and am just now watching the DVR of the game. I'm reading here about JG's limited upside and lack of improvement. At the same time, I'm watching him stand in the pocket and rip throw after throw without the ball hitting the ground. Am I missing something?

No question, he's playing against a lot of future bartenders and landscapers. But he has yet to play with Gronk, Edelcritter, LaFell, Amendloa etc. Just saw a big time throw to Krause inside the last 2 minutes.

I'm seeing a lot of encouragement from Brady (didn't see much of this last year) and Josh looks very happy with his new protege.

JG's certainly got a long way to go but there's talent there and he's a very good fit for the NE offense. Time will tell I suppose. Let's not forget that the first four games may well be in #10's hands..

 

[Brady6]

1. Aside from Josh bloody Boyce, Garoppolo had very few incompletions against the Packers and only missed on four passes against the Saints. I don't know what else you are wanting to see. What sort of improvement beyond completing lots of passes and engineering TD drives and come from behind wins?

Boyce might not have been great but those deep throws were not good at all. He held the ball way to long against the Packers, he took 7 sacks, which as absurd no matter who the OL is. I have been to a number of practices, and his mechanics are inconsistent, he struggles with accuracy especially on drop backs, overall he only performs well out of a shotgun with a limited playbook.

The things you listed him doing he did last year. When he can work out of a shotgun and without an offensive structure he looks good, otherwise he struggles.

 

[Oswlek]

I'm seeing a lot of encouragement from Brady (didn't see much of this last year)

I noticed the same thing and meant to bring it up and see if anyone else found it interesting but forgot to. Thanks for reading my mind.

 

[manxman2601]

Boyce might not have been great but those deep throws were not good at all. He held the ball way to long against the Packers, he took 7 sacks, which as absurd no matter who the OL is. I have been to a number of practices, and his mechanics are inconsistent, he struggles with accuracy especially on drop backs, overall he only performs well out of a shotgun with a limited playbook.

Oh dear, I can see he's going to be one of your pet hates like Amendola and McDaniels. We're going to be going round in circles I fear.

You are setting unreasonable expectations for Garoppolo; I can't argue against those.

 

[Brady6]

Oh dear, I can see he's going to be one of your pet hates like Amendola and McDaniels. We're going to be going round in circles I fear.

You are setting unreasonable expectations for Garoppolo; I can't argue against those.

Sort of weak that you are going to lean on my dislike for Amendola in past years to try and sway the way people see our discussion. It reminds me of Goodell putting "Brady destroyed cell phone" on that document. Injecting meaningless crap into a dispute to in an attempt to save face. I was good with everything you said, respected it until this petty move here.

 

[supafly]

But that's just it, my position is that they do not just have an allocation, but it is subject to who the player is and many other factors.
We have seen that across the board with many positions. Revis certainly exceeded what they appear to cap the #1 cb at, Mankins any G pay, etc, etc.
Of course they are going to be financially responsible but indicating that there is a percentage they will pay and if refusing to go over it by 3mill causes them to lose Tom Brady and get the QB who will play for 3 mill less, that is just not the way they do business in my opinion.

People here insist on drawing bright lines and calling them Patriot philosophy and if there is anything we have learned is that there is no bright line other than doing the best thing for the football team.

EDIT: Not implying you are 'people' in the above, just a generalization.

I would definitely agree that there are many factors that would go into making the decision, and it was probably a very loose "rule" that they try to keep in mind when assessing Brady's past deals. As noted, this is only in regards to franchise QBs, and likely doesn't apply to other positions, although I'm sure that they have a rough estimate of how much they'd be willing to pay a franchise CB just as well.

I don't know if Kraft stated that 18 percent was untenable or not, as quoted in this thread, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me based on some of his past comments where he's mentioned that they don't find it reasonable to go above 15 percent.

I'm not trying to imply that they'd never do it, only what has been mentioned an in attempt to stay within the loose framework that has been set. As mentioned, 15 percent seems to be very reasonable, considering that would put their franchise QB at 20 million dollars AAV (approx) based on this year's cap.

 

[manxman2601]

Sort of weak that you are going to lean on my dislike for Amendola in past years to try and sway the way people see our discussion. It reminds me of Goodell putting "Brady destroyed cell phone" on that document. Injecting meaningless crap into a dispute to in an attempt to save face. I was good with everything you said, respected it until this petty move here.

I didn't say it to sway anybody, I don't operate like that and it's pretty poor of you to suggest so. All I'm saying is that your dislike for the two I mentioned was pretty irrational and I think your very unreasonable expectations for Garoppolo are just as unreasonable. As for me having to "save face", why would I need to? I won this argument have a dozen posts ago. But as ever, you have to personalise things. Good job.