Greg Bedard on Brady vs Garopollo

[PATS16N0]

Tom Brady is the best QB in the league, the best QB to ever play football, and the reigning Superbowl MVP.

This entire conversation is dumb and embarrassing.

 

[Bruins29]

Tom Brady is the best QB in the league, the best QB to ever play football, and the reigning Superbowl MVP.

This entire conversation is dumb and embarrassing.

Especially since he has several really good years left and perhaps a couple of serviceable ones.

Now, I am all for getting TB out of games at the end (and a capable backup to play) to preserve him but I agree that Jimmy hasn't done enough in a reg season game to warrant a lot of this.

 

[Brady6]

I watch him and think he's already better than some starters in the NFL. If you don't then that's up to you. I would take him over RGIII, Josh McNown, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Hoyer, Ryan Mallett, Johnny Manziel, Geno Smith. I'd probably put him in the Nick Foles range right now and think his upside is Romo/Flacco. That's what I see when I watch him.

And why are you continuing with this "elite QB" straw man. For the hundredth time, no-one is suggesting he's elite.

So you don't think Garoppolo is going to be an elite QB you just think he is going to replace Tom Brady? I would rather have a 42 year old Brady than any of those players and I would rather endure a few losing seasons and net a high draft pick for an elite QB than have 10 years of average QB play. Elite QBs are the only thing that makes you a contender consistently.

What improvements do you see from Garoppolo this season?

 

[manxman2601]

The question isn't do you want a team that is competitive or one that isn't, it about in 10 years would you rather have had 9 poor years and a Championship or 10 better regular seasons but no Championship. I understand there can be different answers to that question, but I have no doubt what mine is.

I have come to realise that I want hope every year rather than depression and fading memories. So I want a team that, at the start of every season, that I think has a chance to go to the playoffs and perhaps beyond. So I'd definitely take the latter.

 

[Ring 6]

Whatever you call it, it's an absurd argument to make, because you're putting forth the extremes as if they're the only options we have

No I am stating my preference as a fan.
Nowhere did I even attempt to imply that this is a strategic path.
I am saying which RESULT I would be happier with.

And no, I don't want us to become the Giants for the next decade...I want to remain the New England Patriots as long as possible and always assume we'll be contending in the playoffs to reach a title - year in, year out

Yeah, that wasn't the argument. Now you have seen what a strawman is, you just offered one.

Lets out it this way:

From 2007 to 2013 the Patriots made the playoffs 6 times in 7 years, won 88 regular season games (12 more than the next best) but never won the SB.
The Giants made the playoffs 3 times in 7 years (won 65 regular season games, and did won 2 SBs.

If I was asked to chose which result I would like for the Patriots in the next 7 years, there is no doubt I would chose missing the playoffs 4 of 7 times, yet winning 2 SBs.
You don't have to agree with that.

 

[manxman2601]

So you don't think Garoppolo is going to be an elite QB you just think he is going to replace Tom Brady?

Well if you have an elite QB lined up, I'll take him but as they're extremely rare I'll go with good to very good.

 

[Ring 6]

I have come to realise that I want hope every year rather than depression and fading memories. So I want a team that, at the start of every season, that I think has a chance to go to the playoffs and perhaps beyond. So I'd definitely take the latter.

I think being a contender, or even favorite and not finishing is more depressing than being 6-10.

 

[manxman2601]

I think being a contender, or even favorite and not finishing is more depressing than being 6-10.

We'll have to disagree on that one because if you take that sentence to it's extreme, you've just said it's less depressing to be a Jets fan than a 2007 Patriots fan .

 

[Brady6]

Well if you have an elite QB lined up, I'll take him but as they're extremely rare I'll go with good to very good.

I would rather have a very good player with 4-5 years of a rookie contract than pay Garoppolo his second contract. I think we can find a younger cheaper option to replace Brady who will be just as good as Garoppolo if not better.

 

[Ring 6]

We'll have to disagree on that one because if you take that sentence to it's extreme, you've just said it's less depressing to be a Jets fan than a 2007 Patriots fan .

No because my scenario includes winning Championships in between.
No I would not want to be the Browns of the last 15 years rather than the Eagles, but I'd rather be a team that wins Championships some years and is worse than the Eagles others.

 

[manxman2601]

I would rather have a very good player with 4-5 years of a rookie contract than pay Garoppolo his second contract. I think we can find a younger cheaper option to replace Brady who will be just as good as Garoppolo if not better.

You should market yourself as a QB whisperer to teams like the Dolphins who struggled for years to find a good QB or the Jets (ditto) or the teams that drafted Ponder, Locker, Manuel and Weeden in the first round. Unless you're picking in the top 5, quality QBs are extremely difficult to find. They don't grow on trees as you seem to think.

 

[manxman2601]

No because my scenario includes winning Championships in between.
No I would not want to be the Browns of the last 15 years rather than the Eagles, but I'd rather be a team that wins Championships some years and is worse than the Eagles others.

Agree to disagree then. I want a team that, at the start of every season, I think can go all the way.

 

[Ring 6]

Agree to disagree then. I want a team that, at the start of every season, I think can go all the way.

OK, I want one that does. Don't really care that I am hopeful, only care about result.
No right or wrong just personal preference. (And I recognize that people use the 'i want championships' mantra as a way to say they are a better fan, or more informed or some bs like that, and I am not saying that at all)

 

[Zeus]

Agree to disagree then. I want a team that, at the start of every season, I think can go all the way.

Seems to me that the only way you can hope to win is to be competitive. I don't know how you turn that on or off depending on the season. As we have seen, some teams have to courage and stamina to compete year in and year out. Others don't have what it takes to even try.

 

[IllegalContact]

I've fallen into this trap before, so I will avoid it this time.......

I will say that Brady should play until he decides he can't........I learned my lesson during the KC game last year. Someday he will leave.......but not yet

 

[Ring 6]

Seems to me that the only way you can hope to win is to be competitive. I don't know how you turn that on or off depending on the season. As we have seen, some teams have to courage ans stamina to compete year in and year out. Others don't have what it takes to even try.

That is why it was not a discussion about what you to aim for but what RESULTS you would rather have.

 

[Brady6]

You should market yourself as a QB whisperer to teams like the Dolphins who struggled for years to find a good QB or the Jets (ditto) or the teams that drafted Ponder, Locker, Manuel and Weeden in the first round. Unless you're picking in the top 5, quality QBs are extremely difficult to find. They don't grow on trees as you seem to think.

So just so I am clear your hypothetical scenario can have Garoppolo becoming a very good NFL QB but mine cannot have us being able to draft another very good QB in the next 3-4 years? Seems very one sided to me.

You still have not answered my question, what has Garoppolo done better this preseason than last?

 

[manxman2601]

So just so I am clear your hypothetical scenario can have Garoppolo becoming a very good NFL QB but mine cannot have us being able to draft another very good QB in the next 3-4 years? Seems very one sided to me.

You still have not answered my question, what has Garoppolo done better this preseason than last?

Anything is possible, but why so we need to when we already have Jimmy G. As to your question, you didn't ask me, you asked someone else. But as you have, all I'd say is firstly that he looked good last pre-season anyway and secondly, that his performance against the Saints was terrific. Two 2-minute drill drives, a comeback win, completing every pass inside 10 yards, having a quicker release than even Tom Brady. Is that not enough?

 

[Brady6]

Anything is possible, but why so we need to when we already have Jimmy G. As to your question, you didn't ask me, you asked someone else. But as you have, all I'd say is firstly that he looked good last pre-season anyway and secondly, that his performance against the Saints was terrific. Two 2-minute drill drives, a comeback win, completing every pass inside 10 yards, having a quicker release than even Tom Brady. Is that not enough?

Why? Well because Garoppolo is going to be a free agent before he becomes a full time starting QB for the Patriots if things continue as is. If Garoppolo was under contract longer than Brady I would share some of your outlook but right now I do not envision any scenario outside of a major injury that would allow Garoppolo to overtake Tom Brady. I would not pay a player especially a QB a second contract for starter money based on promise, especially considering Garoppolo is not very good during practices and has not been for 2 training camps now.

 

[manxman2601]

Why? Well because Garoppolo is going to be a free agent before he becomes a full time starting QB for the Patriots if things continue as is. If Garoppolo was under contract longer than Brady I would share some of your outlook but right now I do not envision any scenario outside of a major injury that would allow Garoppolo to overtake Tom Brady. I would not pay a player especially a QB a second contract for starter money based on promise, especially considering Garoppolo is not very good during practices and has not been for 2 training camps now.

But he's been good in the games and that's what matters. All I can say is that three years is a long time in football. Two years ago, Peyton was breaking offensive records and going to the SB. Two years later and he's virtually done and almost certainly playing his last season.