Good Bedard article on the Secondary

[Jimke]

Thats totally felger like BS and not true. Its more of bb wanting to develop coaches than hiring anyone else who doesnt run his system .Blame BB yes but not for underpaying. This is totally BS.

Romeo Crennel was the LOWEST paid defensive coordinator in the NFL when he left for his head coaching job. Also, Charlie Weis would have signed elsewhere for money reasons if the Notre Dame job had not come up.
The local press reported both of these items.

 

[SVN]

Romeo Crennel was the LOWEST paid defensive coordinator in the NFL when he left for his head coaching job. Also, Charlie Weis would have signed elsewhere for money reasons if the Notre Dame job had not come up.
The local press reported both of these items.

Local press...that itself is enough to show the credibility there. And even if they were, you think they left for higher pay. You think pats are cheap thats why they dont hire veteran coordinators ? Dom capers was here...what happened ?
Pats pay more than average for practice squad players , you think they wont pay what is needed to get coaches they want ? Its mainly about BB not wanting another system being put in place other than his and you can call him out on that. Its nothing to do with the fact they dont want to pay a mike nolan or anyone such.

 

[Boomer B]

None of us know if the position coaches are good enough or not. We also do not know if the scheme problems on D can be pinned on Patricia. This is Belichicks team and whoever the coaches are have to run Belichicks system, especially on D. Thats the big reason we don't see any big name D coordinators come in here; they can't implement their own system. Ultimately the defensive struggles fall on Belichick. It's his schemes and he's the one picking the players.

 

[Jimke]

Local press...that itself is enough to show the credibility there. And even if they were, you think they left for higher pay. You think pats are cheap thats why they dont hire veteran coordinators ? Dom capers was here...what happened ?
Pats pay more than average for practice squad players , you think they wont pay what is needed to get coaches they want ? Its mainly about BB not wanting another system being put in place other than his and you can call him out on that. Its nothing to do with the fact they dont want to pay a mike nolan or anyone such.

I am questioning how qualified Flores and Boyer are at teaching
college players to turn around and look for the ball. They may
know Bill's system quite well but if they can't teach one on
one, they are failures as coaches.

Dom Capers wasn't a coordinator; he was defensive backs' coach. He did teach technique to his charges.

 

[borg]

The Hightower pick puzzles me.....Is he a 4-3 LB? With that size, I envisioned him on the line doing what AD was supposed to in the 3-4. Knowing now that he is used as a traditional LB, could that pick have been better served filling a more pressing hole?

 

[PatsFan2]

The Hightower pick puzzles me.....Is he a 4-3 LB? With that size, I envisioned him on the line doing what AD was supposed to in the 3-4. Knowing now that he is used as a traditional LB, could that pick have been better served filling a more pressing hole?

I am really hoping he develops some pass rushing skills we don't need another Two Down Thumper back there. Because i don't think Teams traditionally take those guys in the First Round.

 

[SVN]

I am questioning how qualified Flores and Boyer are at teaching
college players to turn around and look for the ball. They may
know Bill's system quite well but if they can't teach one on
one, they are failures as coaches.

Dom Capers wasn't a coordinator; he was defensive backs' coach. He did teach technique to his charges.

That ultimately falls on BB but not because they dont want to pay more better coaches . Those are two different things . They want coaches who can run BB's system and it is not being taught well . If you want to say that then go ahead. Its not a cheap money issue.

 

[Deus Irae]

I am questioning how qualified Flores and Boyer are at teaching
college players to turn around and look for the ball. They may
know Bill's system quite well but if they can't teach one on
one, they are failures as coaches.

Dom Capers wasn't a coordinator; he was defensive backs' coach. He did teach technique to his charges.

Belichick has made this clear in recent interviews. AWTE has posted about it on PatriotsPlanet, and it was linked over to here. The Patriots teach the CBs to turn only if they are in the dominant defensive position. So, if you've got a problem with the coaching, it's on BB, because it's a system/scheme/technique issue.

The problem is that this team doesn't have CBs who can get that position on outside routes very often.

 

[italia44]

I'm saying that the issue is a lack of NFL level defensive back talent, not a coaching problem specific to Mr. Boyer. Edelman was coached up enough to become a decent CB of last resort, meaning the coaching staff was able to take his talent and apply it, because Edelman's got specific talent to help in short area coverage. We saw the same thing with Troy Brown back in the day.

I think there are legitimate questions about this secondary. I also think that there's yet to be a single decent case made for the problem being the secondary coach, and no case beyond preference for the problem being the defensive coaching in general.

......end of discussion,imho:rocker:

 

[aluminum seats]

Well, let's hope a respected voice like Bedard helps get through to Belichick.
The problem's not the talent, it's the coaching. Fingers crossed the message gets through: that Belichick either hires coaches with a spine, or else he changes his directives to the weak coaches he has now.

Know hope. Go Pats!

 

[condon84]

He also highlights how Chung could have broken up a big pass earlier in the game, but instead misjudged the throw and went toward the sideline to try to intercept a ball that was never coming that direction. :ugh:

Chung does this almost once a game

 

[BPF]

I don't think the problems is as easy as saying it's the players or coaching, like everything the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

Yeah I'd like to see more pre & post snap disguise, more movement and blitzing but the players have to prove to be more sound and more disciplined so they can play fast and hard but in control. It's all about trust and that goes both ways. The Pats have a young group on D and the problem isn't only the secondary, it's the defense as a whole. In order to get away from playing vanilla the players have to prove to the coaches that they will be able to handle a more complex situation. What they have going for themselves is that they're opportunistic by getting turnovers, what they need to do is get better by playing sound technique on all levels when it comes to the pass so that they can get off the field more consistently and keep the opponent from scoring. What the coaches have to do in the secondary is mix the looks more. Can't play mostly man or mostly zone. WR's in this league don't get locked down like they used to since most rules favor them so you need to mix it up and make sure the game plan schematically fits or the opponent will figure you out. I don't think right now the Pats blitz enough and when the front four doesn't get pressure it becomes an issue. Patricia I believe will get a better feel for his players and the D as whole as the season rolls on and then he'll figure out how they're going to get timely pressure to make plays. It will take time and we can't expect it to happen overnight. I know it's hard to fathom right now but they will get there.

 

[captain stone]

I didn't even know this fact until I saw the Felger/Mazzhole show

Josh Boyer became a coach for the first time at King's College in PA ....King's College is just about 2 freaking miles from my home,King's is a little P.O.S. school that had done absolutely nothing in sports since I was born...

I don't know where Belichick found this guy,albeit I still don't think Boyer is totally responsible for the suckage that roams the secondary,its simply drafting JAGS or in Mccourty's case,one year wonders.

It's both, I'm afraid.

Boyer is obviously incompetent and deserves to be fired ASAP, so I'll get that out of the way first.

There's also the drafting issue, in both over-drafting someone and in drafting someone at all.

2006: Bill had 3! chances in the 6th!! round to draft Geno Wilson's future replacement, Antoine Bethea.
I find this to be the beginning of the end of Bill's ability to consistently and correctly evaluate DB talent.

2007: Stomper Meriweather was a mistake from before the beginning, as I & others on the Draft forum
have noted before Bill even chose him. One of the LBs David Harris, Jon Beason or the Poz should've
been the call. Stomper wasn't even the best Safety available; that would've been Eric Weddle, whom
SD I thought somewhat over-drafted early in the 2nd round. (LaMarr Woodley was thought to be
too small for Bill's system, so I didn't give him a lot of 1st-round consideration.)
CB Tarell Brown at the end of the 4th round, when he was one of the better BPAs regardless of position,
would've been a smart low-risk choice instead of the slob Kareem Brown.
And big, athletic STer/SS John Wendling, thought by some to be a top-120 talent, would've been a better
risk/reward choice at the top of the 6th round than the unknown, UDFA-level DE/OLB Justin Rogers.
He just might've made the "need" to trade up for Matty Slater the following year superfluous.

2008: Lil' Terry Wheatley was a huge (by almost 2 rounds) over-draft, as was over-matched and
under-talented Johnny Wilhite. Terrell Thomas was the best CB available at the end of round 2,
as was Orlando Scandrick at the end of round 4.

2009: I was on board with the Butler pick, but didn't realize how little instincts for the position he had
as a former WR. A day late & a dollar short was his epitaph. Too bad; the athleticism was there.
As with Brown in '07 & Scandrick in '08, DJ Moore at the end of the 3rd round would've been a low-risk
value choice instead of homesick, square peg LB Tyrone McKenzie. Moore was once considered to be
late-first-round material, but slow combine times at his smaller size dropped him almost 2 rounds.

2010: There was some debate on the Draft forum over McCourty v. Kyle Wilson at the end of the 1st round.
It appeared that the verdict was clearly reached by the end of that season. Perhaps a mistrial should be
declared, and a re-opening of the case considered.
And at the end of the 7th round, instead of wasting 2 of those comp picks on the never-will-be-ness
of Kade Weston & Zack Robinson, Bill should've dipped into the DB pool again, to bookend the draft
by taking a low-risk chance on DB/KR AJ Jefferon from FOB Pat Hill's Fresno State.

2011: Dowling ahead of Jabaal Sheard or Brooks Reed? Inexcusable. I would've waited until the end
of the 2nd round for him; if he was gone by then, no biggie, I'll have Torrey Smith, thank you.
And wouldn't selecting S/PED user Tyler Sash from another FOB Kirk Ferentz' U of Iowa have been
a far better use of an end-of-6th-round pick than the little-known & out-of-football Markell Carter?

2012: I realize it's early, and signs are encouraging, but I'll go to my grave believing that
Tavon Wilson would've been available with the pick used to select Jake Bequette, if not later.

None of the aforementioned additions were unattainable, top-20 selections, so the "We draft at the end
of the first round every year" argument doesn't wash. Unfortunately, even if Bill had indeed drafted
all/some of Bethea, Brown, Wendling, Thomas, Scandrick, Moore, Jefferson & Sash, they would
quite possibly have been mal-coached into ineffectiveness by Boyer nonetheless.