Get to know Julian Edelman

[mcgraw_wv]

Pat White, and Julian Edelman sound like genuine triple threats. Pat White is the better passer, but it appears that Edelman is the better runner, and receiver.

It's really not even close...

Pat White out rushed him by a wide margin and against teams like Georgia, Auburn, Oklahoma, Pitt, and others of known talent.

Watch Pat White's runs and it's all speed, he ran faster than Darius Butler, and continually ran past him every year they played against each other.

If you watch Pat White film, for 4 straight years, he was the fastest player on the field period in every game.

When I watch Edelman clips, he runs around against extremely unpolished defenders an still didn't have any break away runs like White did where there was no catching him.

Julian may be agile, but he's still no Pat White.


I mean seriously, your trying to compare a 4 time bowl game winner that won the Big East multiple times, and continually beat teams from conferences of SEC, and teams like OU.

There is no comparison, this Julian kid is an after thought, no he's not even a thought, compared to the sheer talent Pat White is...

And you would have never heard of this kid, or even began to elevate him had he been drafted by someone else.

Pay White is the real deal, proven on solid ground with stats, and wins to back him.

Not more INTs than TDs, and not with a losing record at some really soft competition...

It's not close people... no where close.

 

[letekro]

Do you think about the scenarios you post before throwing up garbage like potential fines and flags?

First off, you are talking 2 yards. You can't get much of a running start and take a guy off his feet the way they do in wrestling. Secondly, If Pennington is lined out wide he's fair game as long as he's facing you. You can't hit him in the back or helmet, but otherwise, once the ball is snapped, he's fair game until the whistle blows. There wouldn't be any penalty or fine for leveling him because of the 5 yard rule.

Normally, I don't respond to posts that aim to insult, but because of the spectacular idiocy of your post, I will make an exception in this case.

As to your first point - if you can't take a running start and actually hurt him, what's the point of hitting him?

As to your second point - ok, let's say you do take a running start and really level him, are you suggesting that there is no penalty for "unnecessary roughness" in the NFL??? Are you really saying that this rule, which calls for a 15 yd penalty, would not apply if a player took a 5-10 yd. running start and annihilated a QB who was just standing out wide away from the play??? And are you further suggesting that committing such a penalty would not subject you to a fine levied by the league office??? Have you ever watched an NFL game??? Are you aware that the league office would rather see a defensive player maimed beyond recognition, than have a QB suffer a papercut???

I know that you have nothing better to do than prowl this message board and insult other Pats fans for their "garbage" posts, but maybe you should heed your own advice and think before you post.

 

[DaBruinz]

It's really not even close...

Pat White out rushed him by a wide margin and against teams like Georgia, Auburn, Oklahoma, Pitt, and others of known talent.

Watch Pat White's runs and it's all speed, he ran faster than Darius Butler, and continually ran past him every year they played against each other.

If you watch Pat White film, for 4 straight years, he was the fastest player on the field period in every game.

When I watch Edelman clips, he runs around against extremely unpolished defenders an still didn't have any break away runs like White did where there was no catching him.

Julian may be agile, but he's still no Pat White.

I mean seriously, your trying to compare a 4 time bowl game winner that won the Big East multiple times, and continually beat teams from conferences of SEC, and teams like OU.

Are you really saying that Pat White was the ONLY reason that West Virginia won its games? That no one else on the team helped. It was ALL Pat White?

Just how many games did Kent State play against the SEC???? Just how many highly ranked recruits go to Kent State?

There is no comparison, this Julian kid is an after thought, no he's not even a thought, compared to the sheer talent Pat White is...

Pat White is such "sheer talent" that most teams felt he would not be successful in the NFL as a QB, but as a WR..

And you would have never heard of this kid, or even began to elevate him had he been drafted by someone else.

Pay White is the real deal, proven on solid ground with stats, and wins to back him.

Ryan Leaf was the real deal. With stats and wins against competition that was better than what White faced. And White seems to have a very similar attitude. Only wanting to do what he wants. He's stated time and again he only wants to be a QB.... How well do you think that will fly?

Not more INTs than TDs, and not with a losing record at some really soft competition...

It's not close people... no where close.

Someone needs to get his nose out of Pat White's jock. Seriously. Pat White is not the next messiah at QB. And no one is claiming that Edelman will be the next messiah at WR. What people have recognized is that Edelman showed better skills than Pat White during the receiver and return drills that they were asked to perform.

As for whether White ran past guys in college, who cares. Its not like he'll be doing that on a regular basis in the NFL.

Seriously, the only thing REAL about Pat White is his whiny attitude that turned several teams off to him. He didn't exactly show a TEAM FIRST attitude during work outs.

 

[mcgraw_wv]

So many scouts and NFL guys said they didn't know where he fit but he has too much talent to not be in the league.

Yes, I honestly believe Pat White was a HUGE reason for WVU success, as a fan who saw WVU year in and year out, he was the most successful player at WVU during college.

Count the number of other WVU players who were drafted?

I'm not saying Pat White will be Peyton Manning, I'm saying in College, over 4 years, Pat White dominated all facets of the game compared to Julian Edelman. Let's not also forget that White was a Heisman finalist as well...

Wether that translates into NFL success doesn't matter, but when you want to compare past performance between White and Edlemna, you need to judge from a base of reality...

Edelman could turn into the next Welker, and that would be great, and White could turn into a no name in a year. But Pat white in all phases of his college career dominated eldeman.

And it's not even close...

 

[mcgraw_wv]

Pat White's accomplishments

The nation's most versatile threat at quarterback, White closed out his career as the NCAA's all-time leader in rushing yardage by a quarterback, registering 4,480 yards. Before he concluded his Mountaineers career, he would go on to establish 19 school, Big East Conference and major college records. The first starting quarterback to win four bowl games, he also is the first player in league history to gain over 10,000 yards in total offense (10,529). He also set the Big East mark for touchdowns responsible for (103).

Julian Edelman

Broke Josh Cribbs' school record with 3,190 total yards in 2008 (1,820 passing, 1,370 rushing). … Second team All-MAC selection in 2006.

 

[DaBruinz]

Normally, I don't respond to posts that aim to insult, but because of the spectacular idiocy of your post, I will make an exception in this case.

Let me get this straight. You are replying to a post that pointed out how you didn't bother to think things through in your own post and you are taking exception to it? Sounds to me like you are the one with the issue.

As to your first point - if you can't take a running start and actually hurt him, what's the point of hitting him?

Please don't attribute things to me that I didn't say. I'm not the one who developed the scenario and I said nothing about hurting the player. I just said you aren't likely to take him off his feet in two strides. You could still hurt him by hitting him during the play.

As to your second point - ok, let's say you do take a running start and really level him, are you suggesting that there is no penalty for "unnecessary roughness" in the NFL???

Did I say that? Nope. I didn't. Please go back and read what was posted.

Are you really saying that this rule, which calls for a 15 yd penalty, would not apply if a player took a 5-10 yd. running start and annihilated a QB who was just standing out wide away from the play???

Now you are changing the scenario. The original scenario said the CB was lined up 2 yards off. Not 5 -10. And what I said stands. In the situation of the Wildcat, a player such as Pennington, Brady, Wallace, etc, who is lined up wide, is not considered the QB, but is considered a WR. A CB hitting him from 2 yards away isn't going to get flagged for unnecessary roughness if the whistle hasn't blown the play dead. And hitting him could bruise the QBs arm or tweak his wrist or shoulder.

And are you further suggesting that committing such a penalty would not subject you to a fine levied by the league office??? Have you ever watched an NFL game??? Are you aware that the league office would rather see a defensive player maimed beyond recognition, than have a QB suffer a papercut???

I didn't suggest anything. You are the one who is attempting to give me credit for things that I neither said, implied or suggested. And you're doing it because you've got yourself all riled up over the fact that someone had the audacity to call you out on your post.

I know that you have nothing better to do than prowl this message board and insult other Pats fans for their "garbage" posts, but maybe you should heed your own advice and think before you post.

I thought my post through very well, thank you. I made sure that I was clear and precise in the scenario offered. I made sure that I didn't imply or suggest anything beyond the scenario offered. And I didn't attribute anything to others that they didn't actually say. So, I headed my advice just fine.

Now, I suggest you go back and read what was posted and then come back with a legitimate, well thought out response instead the post you put up that only made you look even more foolish.

 

[DaBruinz]

Pat White's accomplishments

4 years.

Julian Edelman

Single season.

Comparing apple to oranges.

 

[JoeSixPat]

So many scouts and NFL guys said they didn't know where he fit but he has too much talent to not be in the league.

Yes, I honestly believe Pat White was a HUGE reason for WVU success, as a fan who saw WVU year in and year out, he was the most successful player at WVU during college.

Count the number of other WVU players who were drafted?

I'm not saying Pat White will be Peyton Manning, I'm saying in College, over 4 years, Pat White dominated all facets of the game compared to Julian Edelman. Let's not also forget that White was a Heisman finalist as well...

Wether that translates into NFL success doesn't matter, but when you want to compare past performance between White and Edlemna, you need to judge from a base of reality...

Edelman could turn into the next Welker, and that would be great, and White could turn into a no name in a year. But Pat white in all phases of his college career dominated eldeman.

And it's not even close...

I get the feeling that Pat White, if his speed is as you describe and I don't doubt you - is well positioned to be a contributor at some other aspect of the game - i.e. RB, PR whatever...

i.e. although he played QB if he were trying out for RB at WV he'd have been every bit as competitive as the starters

In Edleman's case I look at him as someone who can play a special teams role and provide depth at a variety of other positions - including QB - freeing up a roster spot for someone else by taking on multiple backup roles... and perhaps adding a Wildcat quotient in goalline or other plays.

So for me he doesn't need to be anything close to what Pat White may be to be valuable to this team.

 

[Feep50]

FOOD FIGHT! COOL!

I'm passing out rotten fruit and veggies........

 

[DaBruinz]

So many scouts and NFL guys said they didn't know where he fit but he has too much talent to not be in the league.

Most said he didn't fit in the league as a QB.

Yes, I honestly believe Pat White was a HUGE reason for WVU success, as a fan who saw WVU year in and year out, he was the most successful player at WVU during college.

Count the number of other WVU players who were drafted?

So, you are a WVU fan. Which means you have a bias.
As for the number of WVU draftees in the last 4 years, there have been 7 in the last 4 years. There were 3 in 2009 (White, Lankster, McAfee), 3 in 2008 (Slaton, Schmitt, Mundy), and 1 in 2006 (McCann). By comparison, Kent State has had 3 players taken in the last 4 years. One in each of 2009 (Edelman), 2008 (Jack Williams), and 2007 (Usama Young).

Did White have a successful career? Yes. He did. And no one is taking that away from him. But he had help. Including Slaton for 3 years.

'm not saying Pat White will be Peyton Manning, I'm saying in College, over 4 years, Pat White dominated all facets of the game compared to Julian Edelman. Let's not also forget that White was a Heisman finalist as well...

So, Pat White was a Heisman finalist. There has been a Heisman winner who went undrafted.

As for comparing White to Edelman, have you ever watched Edelman play? Do you take into consideration the level of talent that Edelman had around him? I don't think that you do. I'd be willing to be that the 3rd stringers on WV would probably be starters for Kent State in most cases.

You say that White "dominated" all facets in comparison to Edelman, but are unwilling to look at the help that White had to accomplish that in comparison to Edelman.

Wether that translates into NFL success doesn't matter, but when you want to compare past performance between White and Edlemna, you need to judge from a base of reality...

Edelman could turn into the next Welker, and that would be great, and White could turn into a no name in a year. But Pat white in all phases of his college career dominated eldeman.

And it's not even close...

Unless you've sat down and broken down the film on both from an unbiased view, you're saying that White is better carries no weight behind it. Because you are comparing apples to oranges. You are comparing significantly different levels of team talent and trying to say they are the same.

Pat White has talent. Clearly. Otherwise he'd not have been drafted in the 2nd round. But he's just as unrefined as Edelman. Edelman has a leg up on him in several aspects. First being attitude. Second is transferrable skills (Edelman with the better pass catching and route running). Third, attributes. They are basically the same speed, but Edelman has better agility, vertical, and burst.

 

[mcgraw_wv]

Comparing apple to oranges.

According to CBSSports, thats Edelman's 3 year career highlights. hence the 2006 2nd team all MAC team.

I hope this kid turns into something special, I don't see him as overly fast, or overly anything, a very jack of all trades. I would much rather have Pat White on the Pats becuase I think White is just a winner, he finds ways to compete and win, he has heart, and he has crazy respect for his coaches and the game.

I hope Edelman turns into something special as well, but you can't elevate this kid up to something simply becuase the Pats drafted him.

 

[mcgraw_wv]

Unless you've sat down and broken down the film on both from an unbiased view, you're saying that White is better carries no weight behind it. Because you are comparing apples to oranges. You are comparing significantly different levels of team talent and trying to say they are the same.

Kent State has less talent around him, including the play of the people he played against, and yet he still threw more interceptions than Tds, with less talent on his team and defending against him...

I understand Kent State wasn't Ohio, or Florida, but WVU hasn't been sending up the talent to the NFL either. And they played schools who were.

Yes Pat White had better players around him, but he also played against CB's like out Darius Butler, and other top notch defenders.


I don't want to take away from this Julian kid, but your seriously fooling yourself trying to put these two players in the same boat... when there is no facts to back it up, no where, anywhere in their careers.

I hope that Pat white finds success 14 out 16 games a year, and I hope Julian finds success 16 out of 16 games.

My gut tells me Julian doesn't make the team, and that most of you here are over valuing him and his potential simply becuase your favorite team drafted him.

Otherwise you would look at his stats, wins and losses, and footage, and see a player that won't be much of an impact for say the Bills if they drafted him.

Let's break down 4 years of White for 3 years of Edelman

Sacks
Pat White: 41
Edelman: 65
- Assumed 4th year: +20 ( best year )

Passing TDs
PWhite: 56
Edelman: 30
- Assumed 4th year: +13 ( best year )

INTs
PWhite: 23
Edelman: 31
- Assumed 4th year: +9 ( best year )

Quite staggering the difference in performance between these two QBs given Edelman another year of stats based on his career bests.

Even knowing Pat White played 1 more year, you could add Edelman's best year of stats to his 3 and they aren't close.

 

[Sicilian]

So, hight first round QBs who are more traditional and throw better than Pat White have on average a 40% chance of failure in the NFL... but somehow now I'm supposed to be worried about the Dolphins having a guy from the later rounds, in a role that traditionally has faired even worse? Vick was the best scrambling QB I've seen, but he couldn't throw the ball consistently. I'm not afraid of any QB who's not primarily known for throwing the ball, until I see a Vick clone that actually wins something.

Even McNabb didn't really win until he started curtailing his happy feet and got better at throwing.

As for Edelman, I don't know where anyone got the idea that he was drafted to play QB. Maybe in an emergency role, but there's a reason he was listed as a WR on our draft results.

 

[mcgraw_wv]

The #1 reason Bill B drafted Edelman is to properly prepare the Pats defense to defend the Brown/White Wildcat offense on the practice squad.

That's about it...



You want Edelman to return punts?

His college career consisted of 6 punt returns for 25 yards... That's 4 yards a return.

And he only had 1 catch for 11 yards, so there is no real proof of this kids amazing versatility...

 

[Sicilian]

The #1 reason Bill B drafted Edelman is to properly prepare the Pats defense to defend the Brown/White Wildcat offense on the practice squad.

That's about it...

Based on how much better we played the Dolphins in the second game last year, I would be very disappointed if that was the only reason BB drafted him.

 

[letekro]

Let me get this straight. You are replying to a post that pointed out how you didn't bother to think things through in your own post and you are taking exception to it? Sounds to me like you are the one with the issue.



Please don't attribute things to me that I didn't say. I'm not the one who developed the scenario and I said nothing about hurting the player. I just said you aren't likely to take him off his feet in two strides. You could still hurt him by hitting him during the play.



Did I say that? Nope. I didn't. Please go back and read what was posted.



Now you are changing the scenario. The original scenario said the CB was lined up 2 yards off. Not 5 -10. And what I said stands. In the situation of the Wildcat, a player such as Pennington, Brady, Wallace, etc, who is lined up wide, is not considered the QB, but is considered a WR. A CB hitting him from 2 yards away isn't going to get flagged for unnecessary roughness if the whistle hasn't blown the play dead. And hitting him could bruise the QBs arm or tweak his wrist or shoulder.



I didn't suggest anything. You are the one who is attempting to give me credit for things that I neither said, implied or suggested. And you're doing it because you've got yourself all riled up over the fact that someone had the audacity to call you out on your post.



I thought my post through very well, thank you. I made sure that I was clear and precise in the scenario offered. I made sure that I didn't imply or suggest anything beyond the scenario offered. And I didn't attribute anything to others that they didn't actually say. So, I headed my advice just fine.

Now, I suggest you go back and read what was posted and then come back with a legitimate, well thought out response instead the post you put up that only made you look even more foolish.

I agree that if you don't hit the QB hard, there will be no penalty. But, you and I both know that the OP's suggestion was to hit the QB hard to punish him- I don't know how you can do this to a stationary target without taking a running start and/or striking the head, below the knees, etc. I'm sure you will have a lenghty, rambling, logically incoherent and overly defensive response to this post, but I will never know for sure, as you have become the first member of my ignore list.

 

[Ungeheuer]

Based on how much better we played the Dolphins in the second game last year, I would be very disappointed if that was the only reason BB drafted him.

I think it's pretty odd to say that BB only drafted Edelman to play the Wildcat on the scout team, especially when so many people are so high on Pat White.

White was a great college player and obviously a better passer than Edelman by leaps and bounds. But just going by athletic ability, they're pretty similar. Edelman ran a 4.51 at his pro day, about the same as White, and his 3-cone and 60-yard shuttles would have been the best at the Combine. So the guy is clearly a tremendous athlete. He doesn't have White's arm strength, accuracy, or upper body strength, but as a receiver prospect he's similar to White.

One problem Edelman has is that he just doesn't look like a big-time athlete. He's kind of a scrawny white guy. You have to wonder if he was maybe undervalued in the draft -- he just doesn't do too well on the eyeball test. But he's faster than Josh Cribbs was coming out of college, and he also had as much success as a runner as Cribbs, even beating the combined yardage record Cribbs set at Kent State. Cribbs averaged 5.3 yards per carry as a senior -- Edelman averaged 7.5. And Cribbs is just a half-inch bigger than Edelman.

It's obviously a long shot -- you're asking a guy to come in and succeed at a position he's never played before -- but Edelman has a lot of things going for him. Among other things, he's coming to a team that just traded its #1 kick returner, and has another returner (Tate) who's likely not going to be ready at the beginning of the year. I think Edelman is going to make the team and has a good shot to play a real role on special teams.

 

[DaBruinz]

According to CBSSports, thats Edelman's 3 year career highlights. hence the 2006 2nd team all MAC team.

I hope this kid turns into something special, I don't see him as overly fast, or overly anything, a very jack of all trades. I would much rather have Pat White on the Pats becuase I think White is just a winner, he finds ways to compete and win, he has heart, and he has crazy respect for his coaches and the game.

I hope Edelman turns into something special as well, but you can't elevate this kid up to something simply becuase the Pats drafted him.

For Edelman's Career - he played in 31 games where he had 502 rushes for 2483 yards and 22 TDs. He completed 385 passes on 706 attempts for 4997 yards, 30 TDs, and 31 ints. That's in a bit over 2.5 years. Not the 4 that White had.

Why would you want a whiny baby like Pat White? Seriously? A winner? Since when does a WINNER think about only himself? I'm sorry, but you are serioulsy hyping this guy and its mind-boggling because he, himself shows otherwise.

Who is elevating Edelman up to something simply because the Pats drafted him? I'm sure not. If anything, I am seriously downgrading Pat White. I think that he's all HYPE and won't amount to anything because his attitude sucks.

 

[DaBruinz]

Kent State has less talent around him, including the play of the people he played against, and yet he still threw more interceptions than Tds, with less talent on his team and defending against him...

WOW. 1 less TD than int. You make it out like he's Joey Friggin Harrington who had a gazillioon more ints than TDs in the pros. But just keep forgetting that we're not talking about Edelman being a QB for the Pats, but a WR... The same position that Pat White will be for the Dolphins.

I understand Kent State wasn't Ohio, or Florida, but WVU hasn't been sending up the talent to the NFL either. And they played schools who were.

Yes Pat White had better players around him, but he also played against CB's like out Darius Butler, and other top notch defenders.

No one said otherwise. But what does that have to do with White being a WR in the NFL?

I don't want to take away from this Julian kid, but your seriously fooling yourself trying to put these two players in the same boat... when there is no facts to back it up, no where, anywhere in their careers.

All you've don'e in this thread is crap on Edelman and tout White. Really? I'm fooling myself? Because I am saying that White and Edelman, both of who are going to be RECEIVERS in the NFL, not QBs, are starting from scratch. And the reality is that Edelman has better hands, agility, burst, and vertical. Those are things that you can't deny.

I hope that Pat white finds success 14 out 16 games a year, and I hope Julian finds success 16 out of 16 games.

My gut tells me Julian doesn't make the team, and that most of you here are over valuing him and his potential simply becuase your favorite team drafted him.

Otherwise you would look at his stats, wins and losses, and footage, and see a player that won't be much of an impact for say the Bills if they drafted him.

How are people over-valuing him by saying he'll be a kick returner and special teams player who MIGHT develop into a Wes Welker type player? Seriously. The only person over-valuing anyone is you with Pat Friggin White.

Let's break down 4 years of White for 3 years of Edelman

Sacks
Pat White: 41
Edelman: 65
- Assumed 4th year: +20 ( best year )

Passing TDs
PWhite: 56
Edelman: 30
- Assumed 4th year: +13 ( best year )

INTs
PWhite: 23
Edelman: 31
- Assumed 4th year: +9 ( best year )

Quite staggering the difference in performance between these two QBs given Edelman another year of stats based on his career bests.

Even knowing Pat White played 1 more year, you could add Edelman's best year of stats to his 3 and they aren't close.

All those stats mean absolutely NOTHING. Why can't you get that through your head. Neither of them is going to be a QB at the Pro Level. They are going to be WRs.

 

[DaBruinz]

I agree that if you don't hit the QB hard, there will be no penalty. But, you and I both know that the OP's suggestion was to hit the QB hard to punish him- I don't know how you can do this to a stationary target without taking a running start and/or striking the head, below the knees, etc. I'm sure you will have a lenghty, rambling, logically incoherent and overly defensive response to this post, but I will never know for sure, as you have become the first member of my ignore list.

Its amazing how people like yourself are the ones who reamble incessantly and make the logically incoherent posts yet you always point the finger at someone else.

The OPs suggestion has merit. Why not hit the guy who is lined out WIDE. He's not the QB when out there. That's what YOU clearly can't comprehend. And I'm amazed that you are so obtuse to not be able to figure out how to hit a receiver between the shoulders and knees, stationary or not. But clearly I shouldn't expect more from you. You can't even comprehend simple english.