FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning...

[TriplecHamp]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

brady's done more with less in his career

plus

peyton's made way more mental errors that i've seen, as opposed to brady in their careers

you know you're my favorite Chargers fan right? Please enlighten the rest of your SD Brethren.

 

[TB146]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

This can't be true. With all the brains Peyton could fit in that forehead I don't see how he could ever make a mental mistake.

No, that's where he keeps all of his remarkable personality...

 

[jeffbiologist]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Combined they are 2-6 in the playoffs since 07 Divisional playoffs and have lost 2 Super Bowls. Insult to injury....Sanchez is 4-2, Ouch!

 

[juny]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

I'm shocked that a Jets fan (greenie) admitted this

 

[JJDChE]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

There are totals and there are rate stats. Brady has 143 starts, Manning has 208 starts. Do you honestly want to hold the totals of a guy that has 68.75% as many games started without any adjustments as another guy - oh yeah, that would suit you fine, wouldn't it? While we are at it, let's factor in Mannings high priced offensive talent advantage over Brady from 2001-2006 inclusive, and the weather, and the playoffs.

In rate stats (percentage to some), Brady beats Manning in things like Int%, and QB Rating. Manning simply makes more mistakes then Brady. He's wedded to that QB hero thing, and forces balls, makes bad reads, gets rattled and makes bad choices - all visible in his turnover history - regular season and post season both.



What? Seeing Manning as an overpaid (given his results - really study how much he has been paid for 1 stinking SB win, and 10 other abject losses in the post season to end the year), mistake prone, whiner that loses his cool with regularity? A media darling with great skills, but just lacking the nerve to be in the top group of QB's of all time.... such a pity.




Derek Jeter has what 5 GG Awards, what does that prove except popular offensive players often get awards they do not deserve.

In fact your binky HAS been tailing off, it's right there in black and white, let me lead you through it:

PMS's QB Rating:

2004 - 121.1
2005 - 104.1
2006 - 101.0
2007 - 98.0
2008 - 95.0
2009 - 99.9
2010 - 91.9

Every year in the last 6 Manning's QB Rating was lower then the year before except 2009, which he followed up by his worst mark since 2002. Ahem.

What happened in 2001 to Manning BTW? James went down in the sixth game. At that time Manning had 12 TD's and 9 Int's and the team had a 3-3 record, then after James was gone Manning in the next 10 games had 14 TD's and 14 Int's and the team was 3-7. Didn't seem to do much with that did he?

Like I said: 'If you're objective'

Your post shows you lack the objectivity to argue this subject.

 

[Fball]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

The OP makes an interesting point.

But, I wonder when someone is going to compare the fact that Brady has had one of the best coaches of all time, while Manning has had Dungy & Caldwell?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

To this point Manning has had a better career, statistically. He's a few years older than Brady and Manning appears to be on the down slope, so it's not surprising that Brady is considered better right now. If they both retired today, Manning had a better career. Brady has a chance to catch up if Manning really does tail off down the stretch, though.

You're wrong on the stats, even with Manning's good weather field/dome advantage

Brady QB rating 95.2, Manning 94.9
Brady TD% 5.5, Manning 5.5
Brady INT% 2.2, Manning 2.7
Brady win % 77.6, Manning 67.8
Brady playoff win % 73.7, Manning 47.4


wrong on the ages

Brady is 34
Manning is 35


and wrong on who's had the better career

Brady 3 Super Bowl wins, 4 Super Bowl appearances, 5 AFCCG appearances
Manning 1 Super Bowl win, 2 Super Bowl appearances, 3 AFCCG appearances

 

[bagwell368]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Sorry but unless you use the totals of two quarterbacks with a difference of 65 games (thats over 4 seasons folks) I don't want to hear it, you're not being objective.

Do you mind restating that?

In any event, I'll use this post to restate some points:

There are totals and there are percentage stats (rate). Both are important, but, a guy with over 30% more starts has an obvious advantage in totals. Try dividing the TD's, yards, Int's etc by the number of starts and there is no gulf anymore, in fact Brady has the better QB Rating.

I'll be happy to cut Manning's career off at the number of games Brady has, or wait around for Manning and Brady to get done, but, sadly for Manning fans, rating QB's isn't just about numbers.

In my time (added Graham who is before my time), the QB's that fit at the absolute pinnacle are:

Montana
Graham
Starr
Brady
Staubach

Next tier:

Young
Unitas
Marino
Manning
Favre

Guess the criteria?

1. Accurate
2. Under pressure makes the right choice
3. Leader on and off field
4. Doesn't run much, but can elude pressure.
5. Wins

Brady clobbers Manning in #1, #3, and #5

QB theatrics/talent that isn't put to the goal of winning is impressive to look at, but ultimately is a failure - for the team and for the fans.

The second tier guys have one or more flaws that dim their talent.

Careful about comparing QB Rating numbers of todays QB's with those from earlier times. 27 of the top 35 guys all time are still active or retired after 2007.

Young and Brady both have 143 starts. Graham and Staubach both had 114. I submit, Brady has already gotten over the threshold where games played shouldn't be held against him.

 

[bagwell368]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

The OP makes an interesting point.

But, I wonder when someone is going to compare the fact that Brady has had one of the best coaches of all time, while Manning has had Dungy & Caldwell?

Head Coaches don't mean so much to QB's as do OC's and QB Coaches.

Also Brady has had a tremendous amount of churn in his coaches, unlike Manning who has basically been undisturbed by changes.

 

[bagwell368]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Like I said: 'If you're objective'

Your post shows you lack the objectivity to argue this subject.

Or perhaps you just don't want to be exposed as not having enough facts in hand to make a decent argument on the topic... so far you haven't shown anything besides opinions. Please point me to actual factual information you have posted in the past if I have it wrong.

 

[JJDChE]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

You're wrong on the stats, even with Manning's good weather field/dome advantage

Brady QB rating 95.2, Manning 94.9
Brady TD% 5.5, Manning 5.5
Brady INT% 2.2, Manning 2.7
Brady y/a 7.5, Manning 7.5
Brady win % 77.6, Manning 67.8
Brady playoff win % 73.7, Manning 47.4

So, outside of win %, which is a team stat, they are virtually identical in all the categories you listed, except Brady has a little better in INT%. But Manning has played longer and never missed a start, has an ORoY, has more wins, more TDs, more yards, higher career completion percentage, more MVPs, more Pro Bowls, more All Pro selections and probably a bunch of other 'mores' that I don't feel like digging up.

The fact is, I'd take Brady over Manning, but I can make an argument for Manning, because I'm objective. Not some homer yahoo.

 

[Fixit]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Brady's career regular-season wins: 111

Brady's career regular-season picks: 103

C'mon, man!*

*This stat is absurd.

 

[captain stone]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Its pretty simple. Manning is a great, future HOF QB. Brady is better.

He has done more with less, playing in a tougher environment, against more difficult competition. Saying Brady is better than Manning doesn't demean Manning. After all he IS still better than at most 29 other QBs in a 32 team league.

Fixed it for ya, Ken.

 

[captain stone]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

I think they're very close but the arguments here sound good to me. Playing in a dome vs. facing the defenses we face year in year out.

Keep in mind Peyton has 2 things going for him.
His last name.
He makes it look hard.

Brady makes it look easy.
The one who makes it look hard makes people notice it more.
All the pre-snap stuff is overly dramatic, while Brady usually taps his helmet or something simple. Peyton runs around and tells every player what he wants them do with that grimace on his face.

No wonder the horse-faced goober's had 2 neck surgeries. Serves him right.

 

[Nikolai]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

So, outside of win %, which is a team stat, they are virtually identical in all the categories you listed, except Brady has a little better in INT%.

A little better? 2.2 to 2.7 is a huge difference. Win % isn't as unimportant as you think. Take Brady or Manning away from their teams and the Win % is affected dramatically. Don't downplay it because it doesn't fit your argument.

But Manning has played longer and never missed a start, has an ORoY, has more wins, more TDs, more yards, higher career completion percentage, more MVPs, more Pro Bowls, more All Pro selections and probably a bunch of other 'mores' that I don't feel like digging up.

Most of these are accumulated stats. Brett Favre has more TDs than Manning. Is he better?

The fact is, I'd take Brady over Manning, but I can make an argument for Manning, because I'm objective. Not some homer yahoo.

Contrarian =/= objective

One can make an argument for Manning, but it would be a matter of prioritizing accumulated stats and opinion polls (Pro Bowl, MVP) over the hard numbers and SB victories. The argument for Manning was made much easier back when he dominated Brady on the stat sheet. That isn't the case anymore, so making the argument for Manning is tougher. Objective enough?

 

[captain stone]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Don't kid yourself.

I'm not kidding, at all.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

So, outside of win %, which is a team stat, they are virtually identical in all the categories you listed, except Brady has a little better in INT%. But Manning has played longer and never missed a start, has an ORoY, has more wins, more TDs, more yards, higher career completion percentage, more MVPs, more Pro Bowls, more All Pro selections and probably a bunch of other 'mores' that I don't feel like digging up.

The fact is, I'd take Brady over Manning, but I can make an argument for Manning, because I'm objective. Not some homer yahoo.

Actually, playing longer means nothing statistically, except in regards to volume stats. Volume stats mean little. You've got no argument. Brady's the better Qb, and his numbers back that up even though he's played in far fewer "good weather" venues, percentage-wise.

On a side note, I love that you try using more wins as if it means something, yet you ignore the accompanying more losses part of the equation, and ignore the number of times getting to the AFCCG, getting to the SB and winning the SB even as you hype Pro Bowls and regular season MVPs, all the while pretending that you're objective.

And, please, keep calling me a homer. I want to see how many people here you cause to stroke out with that, either with fury or laughter.

 

[JJDChE]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Or perhaps you just don't want to be exposed as not having enough facts in hand to make a decent argument on the topic... so far you haven't shown anything besides opinions. Please point me to actual factual information you have posted in the past if I have it wrong.

If you want to use QB rating as your metric for 'tailing off', go ahead. Doesn't mean it makes sense. He was voted the best player in the NFL in 2008 and 2009. That some pretty impressive tailing off.

Even looking at his passer rating. The objective observer would say he was very consistent from 2003-2009, with one historic year in the middle. 7 straight years with a rating between 95 and 104, with a big bump to 121 in '04. 2010 was the year that sticks out as a big drop off from past years.

 

[Nikolai]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Yeah, kinda true. I'm not sure I've ever heard DI called a homer before...heh

 

[TruthSeeker]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

What's a troll? Someone who disagrees with the common wisdom that everything Patriots is right?

Are we only supposed to discuss things like who we can trade Wilhite for?

That does seem to be a common usage nowadays. It's gotten so overused and misused that the term is practically meaningless.