So you would have been happy if he had drafted Gholston, and Aaron Maybin and Larry English and Jerry Hughes with his high picks the past four years?
I was never really a fan of any of those guys, you can go back and look. I remember being intrigued by Gholston because of all the hype, but when his stock skyrocketed due to the combine I became apprehensive.
I was never a Maybin/English/Hughes advocate. However, there were other guys that I wanted to see the Pats take at OLB.
I don't get why people write off English as a bust so quickly. The guy kind of reminds me of what happened with Mayo. He had a good rookie year, then in his second year he was injured and tried to play through it and was criticized for taking a step back. It's just like when people were saying Mayo will never be a playmaker or a top flight ILB. Give English a chance to be fully healthy and let's see what he does this year.
To basically call Jerry Hughes a bust already is simply laughable. I don't even like the guy that much as 3-4 OLB for the Pats because I think he's too much of just a pure speed rusher, but he was a rookie behind one of the best DE tandems in the league for the past 5 years in Freeney and Mathis. I have a feeling it has something to do with him being a Colt.
If Hughes was drafted at the end of the first round by the Pats back when the Pats had McGinest/Vrabel or Vrabel/Colvin or Vrabel/Colvin/AD, and Hughes was inactive for most of the year, you would simply say he's behind more talented and more experienced players on the depth chart who are in their prime and have a great deal of familiarity in the scheme. You'd say it's great that Belichick is "preparing for the future and preparing for life after Vrabel/McGinest" by giving Hughes time to learn under great players/mentors like Vrabel and McGinest. You wouldn't be saying "he's a bust he can't even get on the field."
But since Hughes was drafted by the Colts, he's not being groomed and developed by great players like Freeney/Mathis, he's not a draft pick that is more about being a full time starter in 2-3 years from now, he's not even a good investment by the Colts. He's a bad pick, bust, etc. Let's give the guy a chance to show us what he can do on the field before we judge him for not being able to crack the starting lineup as a rookie behind one of the best DE tandems of the last decade.
You'll get no argument from me. As I said before, NE waited too long to begin rebuilding the OLB (and ILB) ranks.
But when you said "in their prime" you were more accurate than you realized. How long did it take those players to reach their prime?
Bruschi - 7 years
Vrabel - 7 years
Willie - 1 year (but he had become an oft injured disappointment before BB revitalized his career)
Colvin - 3 years
...
You see things based on what just happened. I see them based on what can and will happen. This is going to be a solid group.
You see things based on what can and will happen? Seems like you are a bit confident in yourself and your own evaluations. Comes off as a bit arrogant and smug to me, but that's neither here nor there, is it?
To me, you see things through the eyes of a highly optimistic Pats fan. If you think a guy like Rob Ninkovich or Tully Banta Cain is the answer at OLB, frankly, I don't even know what to say to you. You can feed me all you want about experience, years in Belichick's defense, etc. I don't buy it. When you watch Rob Ninkovich play, it's obvious that he is not even remotely close to a Vrabel or McGinest. But if you want to believe that, then go ahead.
I'm just trying to be more of a realist. I know you claim that you can "see things how they are going to happen" but I don't know what you are basing your predictions/assumptions on.
I LIKED the Jermaine Cunningham pick a year ago and still like him as a player, but what have you seen from him that makes you think he will be the next Willie Mac type of OLB? Nothing. He was injured and had a few decent/good plays here and there, but there wasn't a big enough sample size to truly judge. I see a lot of Florida/Miami/Florida St college games, and I always liked Cunningham as sort of a complementary OLB - not the stud that you have to game plan around (Dunlap), but a guy that will show up play hard, and will make some big plays for you ever now and then.
Almost everyone in the media tabbed the Pats a "no name defense" when they were winning Super Bowls. They all credited Belichick and his scheme and the emphasis on team defense rather than individual stars. But that really was just something stirred up by the media.
We saw first hand how truly "talented" the likes of Bruschi, Seymour, Harrison, Colvin, McGinest, Law, etc. were once we started losing them to retirement, free agency, injury, etc. They were actually some of the better players in the game at their respective positions.
Law was a shutdown corner, one of the best in the game in his prime. McGinest was one of the best OLB I've ever seen play - he could do it all: set the edge, rush the passer, drop in coverage. He was clutch in the postseason. Bruschi and Vrabel were vastly under-rated big time playmakers with great intellect. Harrison was one of the most intimidating safeties to ever step on the field.
That's my issue with the way Belichick has gone about filling holes. Recently, he's opted for the cheaper/patch-work options rather than addressing his needs assertively. Maybe it's because Pioli is no longer here. Maybe it's because guys like Rodney Harrison or Vrabel just don't hit the market as much anymore with how ridiculously high the salary cap has gotten. Maybe it's because he's just inept at developing an OLB. Look back and tell me what OLB Bill has drafted and developed. The best you can come up with? Banta-Cain. Not good.
But quite honestly, with Brady's window closing by each passing season, I'm sick of the likes of Derrick Burgess or Tully Banta Cain to try to plug the hole at OLB. I'm sick of signing Gerard Warren, Damione Lewis, Deaderick, Pryor, Brace, etc to try to replace Seymour at DE. I'm sick of seeing Asante Samuel being shown the door, only to see our CB's the next season be some combination of Hobbs, Delthea O'Neal, Jason Webster, Fernando Bryant, and two rookies. The last time the Pats were very aggressive in addressing needs was after the 07 AFCCG loss to Indy, and it resulted in an 18-1 almost perfect season.
I'm all for the way Bill loves to stockpile draft picks, but there comes a point in time where you have to cash them in and either trade up in the draft for elite talent or trade those picks for an elite player. That's how you get a WR like Brandon Marshall or Anquan Boldin or Vincent Jackson for Brady. That's how you get a pass rusher like Brian Orakpo or Peppers or Mario Williams. That's how you get a dominant defensive lineman like Suh. More often than not, you've got to shell out the cash and/or assets to get a player of that caliber.
I don't know how you expect the Pats to add championship caliber talent by continually collecting 2nd round picks and trading back. Sure, Bill has hit on some guys like Gronk, Vollmer, and Chung who all seem to have very bright futures. But there have also been some big time whiffs - Wheatley, Brace, Butler, Chad Jackson.
Maybe instead of spending 2nd and 3rd round picks year after year trying to find a WR, you can trade up and get a sure-fire one or trade your picks for a proven NFL player. Don't like the sound of that? Oh, well it just so happens that the two best acquisitions the Pats had at WR over the last 4-5 years were Moss and Welker. Both of whom the Pats traded picks for. Seems to me there is better "value" in that.
Filling Hole at WR:
Trading a 2nd and a 7th for Welker. Trading a 4th for Moss.
v.s.
Spending a 2nd rounder on Chad Jackson, spending a 3rd rounder on Tate, spending a 3rd rounder on Taylor Price.
The same thing applies to what happened at CB after Asante left. Rather than just re-signing him, they brought in a bunch of JAG's who they thought they could coach up or mask the deficiencies of with the scheme. Didn't work. Then they have proceeded to spend FOUR straight years of picks on CB's: 08 Wheatley/Wilhite, 09 Butler, 2010 McCourty, 2011 Dowling. The only one of those guys we know for sure that can play legitimately in the NFL is McCourty. That's not good value to me, Bill.
I wish we still had Dimitroff in our FO. He's done a great job of addressing his team's needs AGGRESSIVELY through the draft and free agency. At least he's got the stones to go for it with Julio Jones, Dunta Robinson, Matt Ryan, Michael Turner, etc. He's traded up more aggressively in his short time there than Bill has in his whole time with NE. I love Bill as a coach, but his front office skills are not as elite as I once thought they were.
