ESPN (Golic) Jets team to beat in the AFCE

[Kontradiction]

Any way you slice it, it is a three game stretch. Not exactly a great sample size in determining who will be a better RB for an entire season.

It's a three game stretch that has a few important aspects. The first is how both running backs did against the same team one week apart. The second shows that Thomas Jones showed some pretty clear cut signs of tiring out at the end of the season. And the third shows who was the better running back on the Jets roster by the time the 2009 season ended, which was what the original conversation is about.

Actually there is a significant difference between the two. Greene has 15-20 lbs on Jones. Jones is more elusive than Greene who likes to run through people. If Thomas Jones ran like Shonn Greene does, he would be retired by now. You cannot be a north-south straight line between the tackles runner at 212lbs.

Body types and weight aside, they both have similar running styles if you watch. I've seen Jones run through plenty of people just like I saw Greene run AWAY from people last year and vice versa. Greene's weight makes him more punishing than Jones, though.

Again knowing the Jets were going to run the ball and which RB is going to run it is two different things. They were not prepared for Greene to be the lead back. They might have had the same results if they did, but we will never really know.

I challenge you to explain to me, in detail, how the Bengals would have prepared differently during the week's practice if they were preparing for Greene.

Um first, Addai is not a red herring. Again, I mentioned Matt Forte and someone else mentioned Steve Slaton (both had strong rookie years and mediocre second ones).

You might want to check on or update your definition of a red herring because Addai is certainly one. How he does or did with the Colts is totally irrelevant to which one of Jones or Greene was the better RB with the Jets last year and will be the better RB into the future.

Second, Addai's product dropped off overnight after he played the Patriots in Novemeber of 2007.

While Addai did have a couple of bad games after he played the Pats (I believe they were games against the Chiefs and Jags), his amount of handoffs per game dropped steadily as well from the end of the 2007 season until 2008. As a matter of fact, he only had over 20 carries again once in the 2008 season, and he ended up eclipsing 100 yards and scoring a TD. Again, you might want to consider everything surrounding Addai when taking a look at his career production.

Well, Sanchez could potentially be worse. People have a year's worth of game film on the guy and an entire offseason to gameplan for him. Just because he sucked during the regular season last year doesn't mean he has nowhere to go but up.

He could, but it's doubtful. It just seems like there are a lot of people around here who are in complete denial about that possibility. Sanchez was a young rookie last year who wasn't ready to go up against NFL competition. While opposing coaches have plenty of film on him with an offseason to prepare, Sanchez has a year of starting experience under his belt and weapons around him that will make it easier to transition into more of a complete quarterback than he was last year. The odds favor the kid improving more than they favor him taking a step back.

Sanchez seems to do better the MORE the Jets run.

It's funny because people used to say that about Brady too (and no, I'm not comparing Sanchez to Brady). I seem to remember a Denver game a few years back in which Brady attempted over 50 passes only to have the offense stall and lose the game. Afterward, there were plenty of people out there who were making this very same assertion.

Cotchery is a decent #2, not one of the top #2 WRs.

Besides Welker (who is currently nursing a torn ACL), there isn't a better WR2 in the AFC East. In the conference, who is out there better than he is? In the AFC North, Derrick Mason is a WR2 now and he might be on the same level if not a little better than Cotchery is. I wouldn't take Hines Ward over Cotchery, personally. In the AFC South, you have Kevin Walter and Pierre Garcon/Anthony Gonzalez. I wouldn't take any of those three over Cotchery either. In the AFC West, you have Eddie Royal (whom I would take over Cotchery) and Malcolm Floyd (whom I would not). So that's two WR's in the conference that I would take over Cotchery out of many more. In this event, I would have to say yes, Cotchery is one of the best WR2's in the AFC.

Keller is maddening. He has great talent, but he is very up and down.

He's still better than any TE we had on our roster last year or have this year. If you disagree, who in the AFC East would you take over Keller?

Jones just had his fifth year in a row of over 1100 yards and fourth in five years of over 1,200 yards. He had 1312 yards and 13 rushing TDs in 2008. Jones faced a lot of eight in the box all year long. With a rookie QB without a lot of college experience, the gameplan all season to stop the Jets offense was to stifle the run and force Sanchez to throw. To say otherwise is incorrect.

Yes, Jones has been impressive over the last five years. Those stats that you have posted are all correct. Here's another stat: Jones has had 1,541 rushing attempts in this five seasons and is now into his 30's. If you can't agree that Jones didn't look like he had visibly slowed down at the end of last season (which led to Greene becoming the primary RB on the Jets), then I just simply don't know what to tell you. To me, Jones looked like L.T. did toward the end of the 2007 season: still dangerous at times, but a guy who looked visibly tired. All of those attempts take a toll on your body and you can see it in Jones. Greene had the fresh legs and it showed in the playoffs. That's why Greene is still with the Jets while Jones is in Kansas City. It's really simple, Greene was the better RB the Jets had on the roster by the time 2009 ended and he's the better RB of the two right now.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I challenge you to explain to me, in detail, how the Bengals would have prepared differently during the week's practice if they were preparing for Greene. .

probably the same way the pats prepared for ray rice


.

He's still better than any TE we had on our roster last year or have this year. If you disagree, who in the AFC East would you take over Keller?

.

you could make an argument for fasano

 

[Rob0729]

It's a three game stretch that has a few important aspects. The first is how both running backs did against the same team one week apart. The second shows that Thomas Jones showed some pretty clear cut signs of tiring out at the end of the season. And the third shows who was the better running back on the Jets roster by the time the 2009 season ended, which was what the original conversation is about.

How does a three game stretch show how Greene can handle the beating he is going to get over a 16 game season? If you are going to talk about Jones tiring out after carrying the ball over 300 times in a season, you gotta ask yourself how will carrying the ball 300 times by Greene affect his play which is an unknown.

Body types and weight aside, they both have similar running styles if you watch. I've seen Jones run through plenty of people just like I saw Greene run AWAY from people last year and vice versa. Greene's weight makes him more punishing than Jones, though.

Sorry, they don't have same running style. Jones is far more elusive than Greene. Greene is more of a north-south runner.

I challenge you to explain to me, in detail, how the Bengals would have prepared differently during the week's practice if they were preparing for Greene.

Here are just a few examples of how you would gameplan different. If you have a bruising back vs. a more elusive back, you want stack the line close and tight to try to get as many people to hit the runner with the intial hit to try to bring him down. If you have a smaller, more elusive RB, you might want to pull a guy or two an extra yard or two off the line so that if he eludes the first line of attack there is someone who can potentially get to him before he gets 10-15 yards. I don't know how you gameplan each guy specifically, but you do realize that teams do gameplan differently for different RBs and their styles?

You might want to check on or update your definition of a red herring because Addai is certainly one. How he does or did with the Colts is totally irrelevant to which one of Jones or Greene was the better RB with the Jets last year and will be the better RB into the future.

It isn't a red herring. It is an example of a RB who showed elite level talent that fell apart. He was orginally one small point in my overall point and you chose to blow it up into a focal point of the argument.

While Addai did have a couple of bad games after he played the Pats (I believe they were games against the Chiefs and Jags), his amount of handoffs per game dropped steadily as well from the end of the 2007 season until 2008. As a matter of fact, he only had over 20 carries again once in the 2008 season, and he ended up eclipsing 100 yards and scoring a TD. Again, you might want to consider everything surrounding Addai when taking a look at his career production.

Hmmmm..... You run a decent amount at the beggining of the game and get nothing, but the passing game is working well. Go figure that the number of runs went down.

He could, but it's doubtful. It just seems like there are a lot of people around here who are in complete denial about that possibility. Sanchez was a young rookie last year who wasn't ready to go up against NFL competition. While opposing coaches have plenty of film on him with an offseason to prepare, Sanchez has a year of starting experience under his belt and weapons around him that will make it easier to transition into more of a complete quarterback than he was last year. The odds favor the kid improving more than they favor him taking a step back.

I am not in denial. He could get better. He could get worse. He could stay the same. I am proposing a theory and you are talking definites. No one knows whether Sanchez will make strides or not. You can speculate, but that is all you can do at this point. Just like Greene.

Face facts, there are plenty of top 5 pick QBs who started out with better rookie seasons than Sanchez and ended up progressively getting worse over their career not better or at the very least had worse second years than their first. See Rick Mirer, Tim Couch, Matt Ryan, David Carr, etc.

It's funny because people used to say that about Brady too (and no, I'm not comparing Sanchez to Brady). I seem to remember a Denver game a few years back in which Brady attempted over 50 passes only to have the offense stall and lose the game. Afterward, there were plenty of people out there who were making this very same assertion.

The big difference was that Brady NEVER made the stupid mistakes that Sanchez made his rookie season. Brady in 2001 was known to be efficient although not remarkable.

Besides Welker (who is currently nursing a torn ACL), there isn't a better WR2 in the AFC East. In the conference, who is out there better than he is? In the AFC North, Derrick Mason is a WR2 now and he might be on the same level if not a little better than Cotchery is. I wouldn't take Hines Ward over Cotchery, personally. In the AFC South, you have Kevin Walter and Pierre Garcon/Anthony Gonzalez. I wouldn't take any of those three over Cotchery either. In the AFC West, you have Eddie Royal (whom I would take over Cotchery) and Malcolm Floyd (whom I would not). So that's two WR's in the conference that I would take over Cotchery out of many more. In this event, I would have to say yes, Cotchery is one of the best WR2's in the AFC.

As far as the AFC East, it is one of the weakest divisions for WRs. The Dolphins don't have a one. You forgot Antonio Bryant with the Bengals. I would also definitely put Hines Ward (the guy got 1167 yards and 6 TDs as a #2 last year). Mason who had one of his better years of his career last year is definitely better. So, I would put Bryant, Ward, Welker (the guy is injured, not dead), Royal, and Mason ahead of him in the AFC. You can argue others although they are not as clear cut. Assuming there are just as many in the NFC (haven't really gone through each team), that means there are 10-14 better #2 WRs in the league. That makes him average to slightly above average.

He's still better than any TE we had on our roster last year or have this year. If you disagree, who in the AFC East would you take over Keller?

I might argue Watson is better. Both guys have a boatload of talent with inconsistent production. Look at Keller's game logs and you will see the text book definition of inconsistency. He has a great game like Houston where he got 94 yards and then have duds like Miami where he was shut out. He had eight games last year where he had 25 yards or less.

As for the AFC East, that represents 1/8th of the league. Isn't that a rather small sample? Four teams out of 32 team league. Why do you always ask about the AFC East when you want to compare talent. He is arguably the best in the AFC East, but this division doesn't have many great TEs. You stack him up against the AFC West TEs and is the third best behind Gates and Zach Miller. In the AFC South, he would be behind Dallas Clark and Owen Daniels and fighting it out with Bo Scaife and Marcedes Lewis for 3rd place.

Yes, Jones has been impressive over the last five years. Those stats that you have posted are all correct. Here's another stat: Jones has had 1,541 rushing attempts in this five seasons and is now into his 30's. If you can't agree that Jones didn't look like he had visibly slowed down at the end of last season (which led to Greene becoming the primary RB on the Jets), then I just simply don't know what to tell you. To me, Jones looked like L.T. did toward the end of the 2007 season: still dangerous at times, but a guy who looked visibly tired. All of those attempts take a toll on your body and you can see it in Jones. Greene had the fresh legs and it showed in the playoffs. That's why Greene is still with the Jets while Jones is in Kansas City. It's really simple, Greene was the better RB the Jets had on the roster by the time 2009 ended and he's the better RB of the two right now.

Again, I am not talking about Jones of the future. We are comparing the Jones of last year vs. the Shonn Greene of last year. If the Jets kept Jones, he could hit the age wall this upcoming year and only get 800 yards this season. That isn't what I am arguing against.

What my argument is that Jones did get over 1400 yards and 14 TDs. I am not convinced yet that Shonn Greene can do that or is good enough to get that type of production. I am not arguing that if the Jets brought Thomas Jones that he would get 1,400 yards and 14 TDs again.

Your argument was that Greene was easily the best RB for the Jets last year and that he could reproduce Jones' numbers of 2009. I am stating that I totally disagree with you for the first part and no one knows about the second part. Greene could be a 2000 yard RB next season or he could be beaten down by mid-season and stuggle to get 900 yards for all we know.

 

[mgcolby]

no......simply to put a counter-perspetive on what other's opinion to the idea that the sanchez you saw as a rookie is the sanchez you will always see......too many people are depending on the idea that he will never improve

Well that is false hope. But I don't think his improvement from year one to year two will be greater than guys like Flacco or Ryan. He has less playing experience and lesser talent around him.

 

[Kontradiction]

Part I

How does a three game stretch show how Greene can handle the beating he is going to get over a 16 game season? If you are going to talk about Jones tiring out after carrying the ball over 300 times in a season, you gotta ask yourself how will carrying the ball 300 times by Greene affect his play which is an unknown.

As you said before, Greene's age is an important part in this argument and played an important part in the decision to part with Jones. His age alone makes him more capable of handling a beating better than Jones would at this point in his career. I take this into account on top of all the other facts I've laid out for you here in this thread when I make an assertion that Greene was the better runner on the Jets' roster last season and is the better runner of the two today.

Sorry, they don't have same running style. Jones is far more elusive than Greene. Greene is more of a north-south runner.

I didn't say that had the same style. I said they had similar styles. Jones is the more elusive of the two backs, but he is physical as well. I've seen plenty of instances in which he's lowered his shoulder to gain extra yards. To deny such is to lie to yourself. Greene is the more physical of the two, but he is extremely elusive as well. Just watch a few videos of the guy...

YouTube - Shonn Greene 39 Yd TD Run vs. Bengals (HQ)
YouTube - Shonn Greene 53 Yd TD Run vs. Chargers (HQ)
YouTube - Shonn Greene - Remember the Name

The last one is his 2008 highlight package in which he shows the ability to run through and around people.

Here are just a few examples of how you would gameplan different. If you have a bruising back vs. a more elusive back, you want stack the line close and tight to try to get as many people to hit the runner with the intial hit to try to bring him down. If you have a smaller, more elusive RB, you might want to pull a guy or two an extra yard or two off the line so that if he eludes the first line of attack there is someone who can potentially get to him before he gets 10-15 yards. I don't know how you gameplan each guy specifically, but you do realize that teams do gameplan differently for different RBs and their styles?

And why wouldn't teams be able to implement these two methods during the game? They would be able to, that's why. If they aren't able to, then these teams obviously aren't led by very good coaches. Again, the Bengals knew what the Jets had on the roster. They should have (and probably did) gameplan for both Jones and Greene. The Chargers damn well knew better and you can bet every last penny that they absolutely gameplanned for Greene. The Colts? Forget about it. They knew who they were up against by then.

It isn't a red herring. It is an example of a RB who showed elite level talent that fell apart. He was orginally one small point in my overall point and you chose to blow it up into a focal point of the argument.

You don't know what a red herring is then. For your use...

A "red herring" is a deliberate attempt to divert a process of enquiry by changing the subject.

Even though your mention of Addai was a little more innocent/much less blatent, it has absolutely nothing to do with who is the better runner of the two. As far as your last sentence, I actually thought I was doing you a favor by discussing it with you. I could have easily just dismissed it as an irrelevant part of the conversation and moved on with it. On top of that, don't get made at me for "blowing it up", as that isn't what happened. Let's not forget that you're the one that brought Addai into the coversation in the first place.

I am not in denial. He could get better. He could get worse. He could stay the same. I am proposing a theory and you are talking definites.

I'm not taking definites. I've repeatedly said that Sanchez could either take a step forward or a step backward. I've said elsewhere that I believe that his future is more muddy than Greene's is. However, the odds simply favor Sanchez taking a step forward, considering all the talent that's surrounding him.

No one knows whether Sanchez will make strides or not. You can speculate, but that is all you can do at this point. Just like Greene.

Like I've said, Greene's future is less muddy than Sanchez's. Greene actually had to face teams in the playoffs that were gameplanning against the run and still succeeded in a big way. Sanchez didn't face nearly as much attention from other teams at ANY point in the season as Greene did in the playoffs.

Face facts, there are plenty of top 5 pick QBs who started out with better rookie seasons than Sanchez and ended up progressively getting worse over their career not better or at the very least had worse second years than their first. See Rick Mirer, Tim Couch, Matt Ryan, David Carr, etc.

You say "face facts" as if you're talking to a Jets fan. I despise the Jets more than any team in any sport and I wish nothing but bad on them. So don't get me wrong, I hope that in a few years we can put Sanchez's name in there with the Tim Couches and David Carrs of the league. However, since the conversation is on this now and we are making our guesses as to what will happen, I'm going to say that the odds probably favor Sanchez taking a step forward in his second year, even if it is a little one. There have been a couple of guys in this thread that have made excellent points regarding Peyton Manning and his rookie season. He had a TERRIBLE rookie season and began taking steps forward in his next year. While nobody is saying that Sanchez is the next Peyton Manning, it IS good to point out that even a top ten all time quarterback can have a terrible rookie year and rebound the next.

The big difference was that Brady NEVER made the stupid mistakes that Sanchez made his rookie season. Brady in 2001 was known to be efficient although not remarkable.

I wasn't comparing Brady to Sanchez. I was just making the point that most quarterbacks generally play better when the running game is going for the offense and used the quarterback whom you are most familiar with as an example of that.

As far as the AFC East, it is one of the weakest divisions for WRs. The Dolphins don't have a one. You forgot Antonio Bryant with the Bengals. I would also definitely put Hines Ward (the guy got 1167 yards and 6 TDs as a #2 last year). Mason who had one of his better years of his career last year is definitely better. So, I would put Bryant, Ward, Welker (the guy is injured, not dead), Royal, and Mason ahead of him in the AFC. You can argue others although they are not as clear cut.

Aye, good call. I did forget about Antonio Bryant. Although Cotchery had a better year last year, one would have to look at Bryant's quarterback situation last year who was even worse than Cotchery's. We'll have to disagree on Ward. He had 95 receptions to Cotchery's 56 (and Cotchery was still under 200 yards short of 1,000). I would rather have Cotchery. Agreed on Welker, Bryant, Royal, and Mason. That would put Cotchery in the top five in the AFC.

Assuming there are just as many in the NFC (haven't really gone through each team), that means there are 10-14 better #2 WRs in the league. That makes him average to slightly above average.

I never made an assertion about the league. I made an assertion about the conference.

I might argue Watson is better. Both guys have a boatload of talent with inconsistent production. Look at Keller's game logs and you will see the text book definition of inconsistency. He has a great game like Houston where he got 94 yards and then have duds like Miami where he was shut out. He had eight games last year where he had 25 yards or less.

One could probably made the argument that Watson is better, but then one can also make the counter argument about Watson's quarterback situation compared to Keller's quarterback situation.

As for the AFC East, that represents 1/8th of the league. Isn't that a rather small sample? Four teams out of 32 team league. Why do you always ask about the AFC East when you want to compare talent. He is arguably the best in the AFC East, but this division doesn't have many great TEs.

It's pretty simple, actually. The Jets are our direct competition and are in this division. It makes the most sense to stack him up against other TE's in the AFCE which would just so happen to include our TE's.

 

[Kontradiction]

Part II

We are comparing the Jones of last year vs. the Shonn Greene of last year. If the Jets kept Jones, he could hit the age wall this upcoming year and only get 800 yards this season. That isn't what I am arguing against.

I'm aware. My stance is that Greene was still the better RB on this roster. I can make a really easy pretty easy point regarding the Patriots quarterbacks in the year 2000 in order to support my point, but doing so would be a red herring. I'll just mention it and leave it at that.

What my argument is that Jones did get over 1400 yards and 14 TDs. I am not convinced yet that Shonn Greene can do that or is good enough to get that type of production. I am not arguing that if the Jets brought Thomas Jones that he would get 1,400 yards and 14 TDs again.

You're being really specific here, which is funny because you criticized me for narrowing a TE conversation down to just the AFC East. So, just for me to get this straight, in order for Greene to prove to you that he was the better RB on the Jets roster last year, he has to eclipse 1,400 yards and 14 TD's next season? What if he goes for, say, 1,000-1,100 yards and 8-9 TD's next season while Jones craps out in Kansas City? Are you still going to come back and tell me that Greene wasn't the best RB on the Jets roster in 2009?

Your argument was that Greene was easily the best RB for the Jets last year and that he could reproduce Jones' numbers of 2009. I am stating that I totally disagree with you for the first part and no one knows about the second part. Greene could be a 2000 yard RB next season or he could be beaten down by mid-season and stuggle to get 900 yards for all we know.

I never said anything about reproducing a 1,400 yard 14 TD season. You were the one that brought that up. I said that I believed that Greene was easily the best RB the Jets had on their roster and that I believed he would have a good season in 2010, barring injury. In order for me to verify that to myself, I only have to see Greene be successful next season, and that doesn't mean that he has to hit 1,400 yards.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

brady also saved his worst for the 4th quarter last year.......

I'm not going to anoint sanchez as anything, but to think he is not capable of improving is about as wishful as one can get......as a rookie, brady did not exist.....so to use this as any kind of argument is a little silly.....manning threw for 28 INTs his rookie season even though he had marvin harrison and the biggest binky in the world called marshall faulk(86 receptions) in the backfield

to say that sanchez is going to suck just as bad next year does not sound realistic

Well, first of all I didn't say Sanchize was going to suck. In fact, I said to expect "marginal improvement." Did you read my post? And I didn't compare him to Brady at all, don't know where you got that from. But for you to suggest that because Peyton Manning, one of the very best ever to play QB in the NFL, markedly improved his stats in his second year should offer some hope to the the Jets fans regarding Sanchez seems a bit loony. One of the 10 best ever to play turned his play around, so... wouldn't that suggest the very opposite - that unless Sanchize is destined for true greatness he's likely to play only a little better than he did last year, which is exactly what I suggested.

Most QB's don't really get a lot better or a lot worse than they are from the get-go. Brady's magic was apparent from his first game as a starter. I guess you could argue that Sanchize showed an iota of magic in the playoffs.

As far as for my 'hoping?' I can hope all I want that the Jets stink next year and every year. And I will do so!

 

[eom]

yeah, and compare manning's rookie o-line to the jets.

I think it's kind of hilarious that every year you get this same stuff.
it wasn't so long ago that the mangenius turned that team around and won 10(?) games, only to flounder the following year --- they got favre and were heralded as the team to beat, not amounting to much, and now a team that was essentially .500 and 2-4 (?) in division is once again the team to beat because they added cromartie.

good luck.

 

[dhamz]

Most QB's don't really get a lot better or a lot worse than they are from the get-go. Brady's magic was apparent from his first game as a starter.

I would disagree.

All QBs don't get better from the get-go. Jay Cutler comes to mind. A whole lot do get better. Brady is much better now than he was his first year as a starter. So is Manning. So is Brees, McNabb, Rivers, Favre, etc.

 

[TriplecHamp]

yeah, and compare manning's rookie o-line to the jets.

I think it's kind of hilarious that every year you get this same stuff.
it wasn't so long ago that the mangenius turned that team around and won 10(?) games, only to flounder the following year --- they got favre and were heralded as the team to beat, not amounting to much, and now a team that was essentially .500 and 2-4 (?) in division is once again the team to beat because they added cromartie.

good luck.

LMAO really, after our 18-1 season the Jets were "the team to beat" stop with the exaggerations. They are the team to beat because they advanced further into the plays and showed promise in defeat to the colts whereas we looked like total sh*t against the Ravens. We are a better team than that and we all know it but I dont expect "analysts" to just give us the benefit of the doubt especially after the way we ended.

 

[AJY the Jets troll]

Who is better comes down to one thing. Tom Brady.

The Jets are better at every single other unit outside of the Defensive line.

The Jets have better:
RBs
WRs
O-line

LBs
Secondary

It's actually true, which is very scary. However it comes down to the Quarterback. Tom Brady is obviously much better than Mark Sanchez, though given their ages their careers are on different trajectories.

A great QB with adequate talent around him can cancel out all the rest. If Tom Brady plays like Tom of old than the Jets can be better on paper, which they definitely are, but it won't matter.

 

[eom]

were they better at all those positions last year, or did they just get better after the season was over?

 

[patsinthesnow]

were they better at all those positions last year, or did they just get better after the season was over?

:rocker:

Last time I checked, we mopped the floor with the Jets in the last meeting.
So far we're the same team +Crumpler -Watson -Green. The Jets didn't improve in my books. They got a mentally challenged CB that played mediocre. The replaced a 1,400 yard back with a 700 yard back.

How did the pats win that last game?

Mark Sanchez: 8/21 136 YDS 1 TD 4 INT
Tom Brady: 28/41 310 YDS 1 TD

 

[Kontradiction]

:rocker:

Last time I checked, we mopped the floor with the Jets in the last meeting.
So far we're the same team +Crumpler -Watson -Green. The Jets didn't improve in my books. They got a mentally challenged CB that played mediocre. The replaced a 1,400 yard back with a 700 yard back.

How did the pats win that last game?

Mark Sanchez: 8/21 136 YDS 1 TD 4 INT
Tom Brady: 28/41 310 YDS 1 TD

Only we're minus one of the best receivers in the league. So no, we're not the same team.

 

[dhamz]

How did the pats win that last game?

The numbers 15 and 192 had a lot to do with it.

 

[zoostation]

The Jets are alWays the Super BoWl favorites in March and April. Their fans Will be jumping off the bandWagon again this December as they did the past december (before the realized they Were about to back in).

SOJ

 

[Bradyfan 75]

The Jets are alWays the Super BoWl favorites in March and April. Their fans Will be jumping off the bandWagon again this December as they did the past december (before the realized they Were about to back in).

SOJ

Of course Golic is gonna side with the Jests because Ryan beat Golic in a hot dog eating contest:eat1::eat1:

 

[Bradyfan 75]

Only we're minus one of the best receivers in the league. So no, we're not the same team.

KontradictioN, I can not agree with you more I was at that game and this is what I saw

 

[BradyFTW!]

LT is a downgrade from Jones.
Cromartie is at best an equal liability to Lito Sheppard.
At best, they stayed even, I dont know how this represents an upgrade.

Nah, Cromartie's definitely an upgrade over Sheppard. I don't think that he's nearly as much of an upgrade as people think, and he's yet another case of name outweighing real production, but I definitely wouldn't call it treading water.

 

[alamo]

it is not as ridiculous as the notion that sanchez will never improve.......

You saying that means Sanchez WILL improve, without question. Which is clearly not true. Past QBs have looked good in their rookie years and raised great hopes for the future, never to amount to much.

An example that springs to mind:

Rick Mirer rookie year:
274 Comp, 486 Att, 56.4%, 2,833 yds, 12 TDs, 17 INTs, 47 sacks, 67.0 rating

compare to

Mark Sanchez rookie year:
196 comp, 364 att, 53.8%, 2,444 yds, 12 TDs, 20 INTs, 26 sacks, 63.0 rating

Remember when Mirer was making people think the Pats had made the wrong choice by drafting Bledsoe first overall instead of him? But he never progressed and was basically a JAG most of his career.

QB development the likes of Brady and Manning is possible but not even close to being a given.