Elephant in the Room -- Tom Brady's Mental block in big games

[BSR]

Yup, old Mark "Butt Fumble" Sanchez allright, here's how the sucky Mark Sanchez performed in that game against All World Tom Brady, read it and weep you stupid SOB.

Mark Sanchez (Rating 127.3)

Att Cmp Yds Avg TD Int Lg Sack Loss Rating
25 16 194 7.76 3 0 58 0 0 127.3

Tom Brady (Rating 89.0)

Att Cmp Yds Avg TD Int Lg Sack Loss Rating
45 29 299 6.64 2 1 37 5 40 89.0

The irony in this post is astounding. Was Brady at Safety or Linebacker? Tell you what...nevermind...just go back to Jersey and root for your savior Sanchize. Apparently he is the clutch big game quarterback you've been waiting for.

 

[supafly]

Yet Brady's three Super Bowls, which are 8, 10, and 11 years in the past respectively, have no bearing on how he played this year, or last year, or the year before, etc.

All you've done in further illustrated my point. The only way you, as a fan base, can continue to pump up Brady as a clutch playoff QB is to point to results that at this point are near ancient.

No one in this thread is talking about Brady's performance in 2001, 2002, or 2004. So why bother referencing it?


But neither is Brady since 2005.

First of all, you may want to check your facts because "2005" is a pretty sorry starting point.

The 2006 season featured a group of WRs that were better meant for tennis than they were for NFL football, and yet Brady led them to the AFCCG (where they most likely would have beaten Chicago in the SB). It certainly wasn't his fault that the defense blew the biggest lead in conference championship history.

The 2007 season was the 18-1 year, so I'm really not too sure what you could possibly say about that. Brady led his team to what should have been the SB winning TD with about 2:30 remaining. I suppose we should blame the freak helmet catch on Brady too?

2008 he went down in the first quarter of the first game and never returned. I personally don't hold him responsible for a torn ACL/MCL.

2009 Welker got hurt, which severely limited the offense. Baltimore came in tough and wanted it more. Nuff' said.

2010 was an insane year of overachieving that saw the 2nd youngest defense (and a team with 1/3 of its players UDFAs) gain the #1 seed but lose to the Jets. Brady threw 2 TDs and had 1 INT. I'm not really sure what this means?

2011 was another #1 seed, a AFCCG win, and a SB appearance. Manning catch part 2 was once again not his fault. At one point he was 20/24 with 2 TD's, and set a SB record for 17 consecutive completions.

2012 was an AFCCG appearance and a loss. While Brady himself did not have a good game, one thing to remember is that they were up 13-7 driving on Baltimore's 25 with less than 5 minutes remaining to the last quarter. It wasn't exactly a shelling of epic proportions. The defense was the side of the ball that couldn't keep a 14-13 game in the 4th quarter close, and Ridley's fumble and a tipped pass at the LOS didn't help matters either. All in all, they did go 7/15 on 3rd downs and enter the BAL 35 on eight separate occasions. It's not like they didn't move the ball. They just sucked in the red zone.

I am not seeing "2005" as a weak point that started anything. I am seeing a "TEAM" that did not win in it's 2 SB appearances, although they certainly should have at least split one as both were within 4 points, as were ALL of the 5 SB totals.

Your mistake is made by comparing Brady and his success to that of a "team" who has significant defensive flaws, and gave up several late game TD's in very important moments to lose the bigger playoff games.

 

[The_Riddler]

The irony in this post is astounding. Was Brady at Safety or Linebacker? Tell you what...nevermind...just go back to Jersey and root for your savior Sanchize. Apparently he is the clutch big game quarterback you've been waiting for.

Hey, you're the one the said the 2010 Jets sucked, not me. I was just trying to point out that if they sucked so bad, then how come they kicked our ass when it counted and that sucky QB you call ButtFumble had a 40 point higher QB rating ?

That 2010 Jet team would have crushed this overrated, stumbling Houston Texan team.

 

[Zeus]

I'd just love for some of the geniuses who are killing Brady here to tell me who they think is a better QB in the playoffs.

 

[DaBruinz]

I have yet to see a single intelligent, X's and O's breakdown as to how Brady "choked". At this point I don't think I'm going to see one.

What do you call it when Brady's throws are at the feet of Lloyd instead of at his waist or in his chest? What do you call it when Brady is supposed to hit his Safety Valve on the run by throwing the ball in front of the receiver but, instead, throws it behind the receiver forcing the receiver to turn his torso 75 degrees from the way he's running and reach behind in an attempt to make the catch?
What do you call it when Brady flat out ignores open receivers short in favor of trying to hit ones 15 yards deep when they only need 3 yards on the play for a first down..

Plenty of people have mentioned this. You just choose to ignore it.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think your the elephant. Brady has done nothing more than be the best QB in history for his team.
You AGAIN have another playoff spot and a chance for a ring.
Brady performed brilliant again this year.
I mean what do you want 19 Super Bowls?
Brady to win the game EVER time? Thats crazy talk..

You think this is going to stop at 4 rings?
Hes trying his best. I can see that, but you rarely win a SB. I dont even know how he pulled off the 3 SB's in 4 years. Thats , like, impossible.

You have the best QB in the NFL, when you get sick of him please foward his resume to
500 Poydras St, New Orleans, LA 70112, we will trade you Brees

Sorry, Pherein, but Brady didn't perform brilliantly in the play-off game against the Ravens. On the contrary. His play was not up to the standards he, himself, set.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'd just love for some of the geniuses who are killing Brady here to tell me who they think is a better QB in the playoffs.

It's not a matter of who is a better QB in the play-offs. It's a matter of acknowledging that Brady was as much of an issue for the offense as people are claiming Welker was.

 

[DaBruinz]

nonsence, and clearly not supported by stats, just opinion.

29-54 for 320 with 2 Ints and 1 TD. And two others that could have been intercepted.

Those are the stats.

Brady normally completes 63-75% of his passes. He's gotten so good that he's got better than 2.7TD to Int ratio.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I think it's fair to question Brady's consistency in recent playoff seasons. I don't think it's fair to claim that he's choking in BIG GAMES while picking and choosing which playoff games are BIG.

You're a resident contrarian, so your position on that would be interesting.

Well if big game is defined as AFCCG/SBs since 2005 then you could make that argument.

 

[DaBruinz]

WHOA! There it is, folks! Objective evidence beyond all doubt that Tom Brady CHOKES in playoff games! Yes, you read it here first -- it's all his fault! Nothing to do with the game plan, offensive coordinator play calling, receiver route running/catching (or dropping), blitz protection, offensive line play, defense-determined field position, opponent schemes, etc., etc. Forget the other 105 guys in uniform and what they may or may not do, because the New England Patriots' playoff fortunes are decided solely and unequivocally by Tom Brady's suddenly unstable mental state. How on earth was he able to muster 320 yards passing against Baltimore last week? Must've been dumb luck amidst his mysterious mental breakdown. What a schlub. He just can't handle the pressure any longer. Damn choker.

Sorry Tune, but when you decide to exaggerate to the point of absurdity, you've lost the argument.

Answer these questions:
Was Brady his usual Fiery Self?
Was Brady walking the sidelines trying to get the team amped up after they went down 21 to 13?
Was Brady being the vocal leader that we expect?

Now, I don't agree that Brady "choked". Brady definitely didn't play up to the standards that we've come to see from him. I've mentioned it before that his pre-game interview with Marino was somewhat alarming because he said he get's impatient. And, it sure looked like he was impatient or even anxious on the field at times. Possibly putting too much pressure on himself. And, therefore, making mistakes that we don't normally see from him. Such as throwing the ball behind receivers. Throwing it at their feet. Not hitting the open man like we were so accustomed to for the first 7 years of his career.

It's something that people need to stop ignoring because it's there. I love Brady, but in the last 2 games against Baltimore, the SBs against the Giants and even the game against the Jets, Brady was not his usual self. There mentally/emotionally. That was plain as day. It's not the first time people have mentioned this.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well if big game is defined as AFCCG/SBs since 2005 then you could make that argument.

So, if you pretend that some playoff games aren't big games, you can make a ridiculously flawed argument.

But why would you want to make an argument that requires you to make such an obviously flawed claim in order for it to have any validity? Why wouldn't you look for a more reasonable and valid argument, instead?

 

[mb6592]

What do you call it when Brady's throws are at the feet of Lloyd instead of at his waist or in his chest? What do you call it when Brady is supposed to hit his Safety Valve on the run by throwing the ball in front of the receiver but, instead, throws it behind the receiver forcing the receiver to turn his torso 75 degrees from the way he's running and reach behind in an attempt to make the catch?
What do you call it when Brady flat out ignores open receivers short in favor of trying to hit ones 15 yards deep when they only need 3 yards on the play for a first down..

Plenty of people have mentioned this. You just choose to ignore it.

When even you see this, as you almost always give all things Patriots the benefit of the doubt, it has to give even the most ardent Brady apologists pause.

 

[OneMore87]

I think we are forgetting the team around him. In past years it was so much better. He can't do it alone. Yeah he has come up big in some spots, but he's also had guys who blocked him better to have more time, guys who didn't drop key catches and a defense that required he score less than he has too now.

I think Brady's big game ability has slipped, SLIGHTLY, but not a lot.

The team AROUND him is what has slipped a lot.

 

[mb6592]

It's something that people need to stop ignoring because it's there. I love Brady, but in the last 2 games against Baltimore, the SBs against the Giants and even the game against the Jets, Brady was not his usual self. There mentally/emotionally. That was plain as day. It's not the first time people have mentioned this.

I don't see how this is remotely debatable. There's two "oh sh-t" types of moments I've experienced these last several years. The one where you just know the pass rush & the defensive backfield will not hold up and the one where it's obvious that Brady is not going to be Brady, I swear it's palpable. I mean that debacle to end the 1st half, if that had been Sanchez or Manning, I'd still be laughing at that choke job (excuse me, I mean that underperformance).

 

[supafly]

I think Brady's big game ability has slipped, SLIGHTLY, but not a lot.

The team AROUND him is what has slipped a lot.

I think this really wraps up the thread to be honest.

As much as people complain about Brady lately, they may not be remembering the fact that he had to win a LOT of games to get us to these big SB's and AFCCG's.

That had to happen both in the regular season AND the postseason too.

I still wouldn't want anyone else in there as the QB, and I think that once they'd rattle off 3-4 victories in a row again, he'd have a lot more confidence instead of pressure to carry the team by himself.

 

[supafly]

Answer these questions:
Was Brady his usual Fiery Self?
Was Brady walking the sidelines trying to get the team amped up after they went down 21 to 13?
Was Brady being the vocal leader that we expect?

It's something that people need to stop ignoring because it's there. I love Brady, but in the last 2 games against Baltimore, the SBs against the Giants and even the game against the Jets, Brady was not his usual self. There mentally/emotionally. That was plain as day. It's not the first time people have mentioned this.

Actually DaBruinz, I think that you could easily answer "yes" to the questions above. He certainly is always his fiery self, and he is always on the sidelines getting everyone amped up. He's always a vocal leader.

In the NYG SB 2007 it sure showed a lot to lead what should have been the game winning drive of yet another SB in the waning moments of the 4th quarter with less than 3 min remaining. To me that's fiery, especially considering that should have been the 4th consecutive late game winning SB drive out of 4 appearances if not for the helmet catch.

How about last year's SB, being 20/24 at one point with a record setting 17 straight completions and 2 TDs? Was it fiery to bring his team 98 yards to close out the half by gaining momentum and having the lead? Was it fiery to do the exact same thing coming out of the locker room to start the 3rd quarter too? How many times are we going to lose when we score back to back TD's at the end/beginning of the halves? Not many...

I think that BOTH of those SB's had a lot to do with the ball bouncing the wrong way, and a lot to do with the defense not being able to make stops to end the game and win it. I actually think that we should, in all fairness, throw both of those SB's right out of the conversation.

In last yr's AFCCG he didn't play "well," that is understandable. We can also point to his 4th down plunge over center where he scored the game winning, come from behind TD to go to the SB as being "fiery" and proving that his head and heart are in the game.

That takes us to the 2010 NYJ game where he threw 2 TD/1 INT, which to me is not up to the insane standards set for Brady, but still not necessarily a 'bad' day for a playoff game. IIRC, his QB rating in the Jets game was right around his regular all-time range in the mid to high 80's, but I could be wrong.

Really, that only leaves us with Baltimore in playoff games, and even then you'd have to give some credit to their good defense and also take into acct the fact that Brady's top weapons in Welker/Gronkowski were both out with injuries too, even though I agree with you that both of those games were bad Brady performances.

So in all actuality, it very well could be that Baltimore is the key factor here, as Brady has had 3 sub-par games vs them in the playoffs. Nothing else. It really could be just as simple as that.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't see how this is remotely debatable.

Because a breakdown of the latest Patriots v. Ravens contest shows nothing of the sort.

 

[Zeus]

It's not a matter of who is a better QB in the play-offs. It's a matter of acknowledging that Brady was as much of an issue for the offense as people are claiming Welker was.

You may have noticed that none of the so-called elite QBs are sailing through the post season year after year. Not Rodgers, not Peyton, not Brees. Hell, Eli can't even get out of the regular season on a consistent basis.

Brady has played well enough to get the team to the big games and has done so more consistently than any QB in the history of the game. The big games are a crap shoot because the level of competition and intensity are so very high.

So, yeah, Brady's had some tough games in the playoffs, last week included. He's still 3-2 in the Super Bowl and 5-2 in conference championships. This team has problems but Tom Brady isn't one of them.

 

[Tunescribe]

Answer these questions:
Was Brady his usual Fiery Self?
Was Brady walking the sidelines trying to get the team amped up after they went down 21 to 13?
Was Brady being the vocal leader that we expect?

From what I saw at the game through binoculars (watching Brady pre-game, during it on the bench and between plays, etc.) plus hearing him in the huddle on NFLN's Championship Game Sound Effects segment, I would say yes to all.

Now, I don't agree that Brady "choked". Brady definitely didn't play up to the standards that we've come to see from him. I've mentioned it before that his pre-game interview with Marino was somewhat alarming because he said he get's impatient.

Be careful here, because this can be interpreted more ways than one and doesn't necessarily mean impatience in the pocket. I take it to mean that he's getting impatient to win it all again.

And, it sure looked like he was impatient or even anxious on the field at times. Possibly putting too much pressure on himself.

You mean, it looked that way on television? if you had a full view of the receivers running routes like I did, you would've seen that the Pats were blanketed more often than not and Brady was forced to thread the needle on a majority of his completions. The Ravens made defensive change-ups that worked well (this has been verified by both teams). Granted, Brady made a few bad throws that could've otherwise been completed, but nothing I saw suggested he was off his game aside from what Baltimore dictated. He still threw for 320 yards en route to a 400-yards-plus offensive output. They moved the ball well enough, just didn't produce in the red zone. Baltimore is a TOUGH OPPONENT!

I absolutely agree that there's way too much pressure on Brady's shoulders to carry the team, but that fault lies with the scheme and the coaches. It's been that way since 2007.

It's something that people need to stop ignoring because it's there. I love Brady, but in the last 2 games against Baltimore, the SBs against the Giants and even the game against the Jets, Brady was not his usual self. There mentally/emotionally. That was plain as day. It's not the first time people have mentioned this.

What you consider to be "plain as day" is purely a matter of perception and more often than not, highly subjective conjecture. Unfortunately, there's no objective basis for determining these things. Whenever someone starts making declarative judgments about a player's mental or emotional state based on what they see or hear on television, credibility can be an issue.

But the bigger point I think you are missing regarding Brady's play lies with how the team has been built since 2007, which more or less requires New England to score in the 30s to win games, and score those points mostly through the air. It just wasn't that way in the Super Bowl WINNING years, when BB and staff put greater emphasis on ball control, special teams, field position and opportunistic defense. Too much has been placed on Brady's shoulders and it ain't his fault. (And don't forget, the guy still can amaze in spite of things, as when he set the Super Bowl consecutive completion record last year vs. the Giants.)

 

[PATSNUTme]

Because of some complaints sent I have gone through 9 pages of this remarkable thread

It's full on everything. Personal insults. The usual people who only come on the board just to agitate. And the word "homer' used about 100 times. And then someone has to start bringing Manning into the conversation when this thread has nothing at all to do with Manning.

For now we will keep the thread open. But STOP THE NAME CALLING.

This is going to be a long off season.