Ed Reed released by Texans ... signs with Jets

[Deus Irae]

Right. But aside from QB, a team isn't defined by one position. A better OL improves a running game for example. A better pass rush improves a secondary. I'm not trying to say that Jamie Collins will be the next Von Miller because that's rather wishful but taking things to the hypothetical level, even if the greatest need is at safety, is not the team helped more by getting an elite pass rusher rather than an average safety (particularly when the safety need is later filled). The "need" at safety in that situation surely becomes subordinate to the "value" of an elite pass rusher.

Collins would have been fine if he'd been ready to play and he was a monster of a cover LB. That's not the case. As for the 'elite' pass rusher theory, he's not one. He's a DE/LB hybrid who might one day become worth something. This isn't a young, rising team with a young QB that can afford to wait on project players taken in round 2. It's an established team that needs to maximize the opportunities while Brady is still at or near the top of the heap.

A good coverage LB has been a need for a while.

I agree, but they didn't draft one. They drafted a DE/LB hybrid who wasn't ready to play either position. The smart play was to sign a cover LB and draft the S.

 

[Crononaut]

Teams drafting for need tend to be drafting for need every year. Because they suck.

The Draft is about making your entire roster better from top to bottom.

People still don't get it.

What does this even mean? If I have a need at WR and don't draft any, how am I making my team better? The incremental value of depth, while certainly a characteristic of the best teams out there, still shouldn't outweigh the significant value of a good draft pick at a needed position. Obviously I am not advocating solely drafting need positions.

Good teams, through superior management and coaching, generally don't have need positions, yes. The Patriots are a good team who, through a series of unfortunate events and questionable management decisions, entered the draft with needs.

 

[manxman2601]

I agree, but they didn't draft one. They drafted a DE/LB hybrid who wasn't ready to play either position. The smart play was to sign a cover LB and draft the S.

They did draft a safety though.

 

[BlueThunder]

Collins wasn't a head scratcher pick.

I'll reserve judgement until after next year.

 

[Deus Irae]

They did draft a safety though.

They took a safety later in the draft (end of 3rd), which is not the same as getting the need dealt with by using a top pick on a top prospect.

Sub in Swearinger for Collins, and the draft is a hell of a lot smarter.

 

[Deus Irae]

Teams drafting for need tend to be drafting for need every year. Because they suck.

The Draft is about making your entire roster better from top to bottom.

People still don't get it.

Belichick factors need into his value equation, and he's stated so himself. You should call him and let him know that he doesn't get it.

 

[ausbacker]

I'm surprised you don't consider the LB corps as highly as I do. Going into the draft, how would you have ranked the groups? Mine was something like:

Top Level: QB, TE, RB - Generally the strongest points of our team, young across the board except for Brady, who until a year or two before he's finished playing, eliminates the need to draft another QB.

Solid: LB, DT - I was perfectly fine with the combo of Hightower, Mayo, and Spikes. Would agree it could use some depth, but all are in the first half of their careers (hopefully) which is a big plus. Hard to complain with big Vince in there. I want to say I definitely wouldn't have minded some depth and to begin looking towards the future, but honestly I think that might be some hindsight bias.

Average: CB, DE - We thought we had the beginnings of a decent secondary with Talib and Dennard. It has been solidified at this point, but back then I don't recall being so sure. We definitely wanted more depth. DE was similar, we were banking big on Chandler Jones breaking out (and thus far has done well this season), and Ninko's a playmaker, but two top tier pass rushers are better than one.

Need: S, WR - I had confidence in McCourty. Gregory was playing nowhere near as well as he has this year, and our backup situation was pretty scary. Definitely one of my top concerns going into the draft. I was initially going to put WR at abysmal, but again that's revisionist as we did have a number of vets signed at the time who all fizzled. Still, our sure things were Amendola and Edelman. By far our biggest hole going into the draft IMO.

To be fair to Bill, if I recall correctly the next two (or two of three) picks included a WR (Dobson) and S (Harmon). And don't get me wrong, I'm not unhappy Collins is a Patriot. I just don't agree with the idea of reaching for a guy you could probably get later at a position that, at least IMO, was at best 4th on my list of needs.

It's also easier to say he was worth it, I think, in light of the fact that thus far this may be one of Bill's better drafts. If Dobson and Harmon were busts, I think it would be easier to criticize the pick.

It's not so much about ranking Crononaut but about servicing needs. The team had a serious need for a Linebacker who could cover in the passing game and provide run support, especially off the edge. I saw that as big a need as the Patriots had at WR, DB and DT. Personally, the biggest area of concern for mine was DT. I didn't like the lack of depth and suitability to replace Wilfork if he went down. As for the rest of your post, it's well thought out and I don't have issue with anything you've put forward.

 

[manxman2601]

Sub in Swearinger for Collins, and the draft is a hell of a lot smarter.

This of course depends entirely on how you evaluate the prospects and whether you take a short or medium term approach to team building and this clearly where we differ.

 

[Deus Irae]

This of course depends entirely on how you evaluate the prospects and whether you take a short or medium term approach to team building and this clearly where we differ.

A general "short term versus medium term approach" is not the issue, because that leaves out too much context, but this issue has sidetracked the thread long enough, so I'll leave it there.

 

[ausbacker]

A general "short term versus medium term approach" is not the issue, because that leaves out too much context, but this issue has sidetracked the thread long enough, so I'll leave it there.

I liked Swearinger coming out of college Deus but I can't say with certainty that he has been better than the combination of Gregory and Harmon this season. I don't have high regard for Gregory but he's been OK. There is still a need for improvement there. Perhaps Harmon can provide it. We'll find out.

 

[Ivan]

Belichick factors need into his value equation, and he's stated so himself. You should call him and let him know that he doesn't get it.

lmfao, the guy who has called Belichick's roster construction for this season "pitiful," and is currently talking about his mistakes in this draft is telling another poster to go check with Belichick. Seriously? That takes a special kind of arrogance and hubris. Unbelievable.

 

[Rob0729]

Come on guys. Three of you in a row misquoted Deus there.

No. We didn't. Deus edited his post. We all quoted his entire post verbatim in our response. He went back and qualified his comments after the fact.

 

[manxman2601]

No. We didn't. Deus edited his post. We all quoted his entire post verbatim in our response. He went back and qualified his comments after the fact.

Oh OK. I only saw the edited version of Deus' post. in that case, my apologies.

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh OK. I only saw the edited version of Deus' post. in that case, my apologies.

Yeah, they were fine. I didn't think my post was specific enough at first, so I tightened it up to try keeping to the point, but they'd already posted their replies. Thanks for mentioning it, though, because it may help someone else (or even me) down the road.

 

[Rob0729]

Because it's about the pick, not the player.



I'm doing nothing of the sort.

I don't have a problem with the pick itself. A coverage LB was a pretty big need going into this past year's draft and since Mayo went down is a bigger concern than safety. Mayo was just becoming above average in that category this year. Hightower still has a ways to go. Spikes will never get there.

To say a coverage LB wasn't a significant need this year and going forward especially with the way the NFL is going is just disingenious. Collins filled an immediate and long range need.

 

[Crononaut]

It's not so much about ranking Crononaut but about servicing needs. The team had a serious need for a Linebacker who could cover in the passing game and provide run support, especially off the edge. I saw that as big a need as the Patriots had at WR, DB and DT. Personally, the biggest area of concern for mine was DT. I didn't like the lack of depth and suitability to replace Wilfork if he went down. As for the rest of your post, it's well thought out and I don't have issue with anything you've put forward.

I can concede I may have been a bit too broad in my groupings. I certainly agree we are in need of a coverage LB (especially in light of our best one being on IR), although I have not watched nearly enough of Collins to know how he's faring in this regard.

Somewhat similar to the nuance at DT: Jones and Vellano have performed surprisingly well overall at the position, particularly in the area of generating pressure up the middle, but as of now are liabilities against the run.

*Looks up at thread title, realizes topic is in another time zone.*

I won't take this thread further off point anymore, but thanks for the discussion.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Reed signing w/ Fatasaurus Rex confirms my suspicion that Reed wants to 'play' somewhere he can shoot off his mouth and believe that ups his cred. BB probably said I love ya Ed but I'll ask that you please keep it all between us. BB said it with respect, I'm sure. But Reed wants to cruise and toeing the line anywhere probably didn't appeal to him. Enter the Jets and their 'say it even if you can't back it up' mouth brigade with a coach who Reed is sure idolizes him enough to let him act as he chooses.

It sucks to get old Ed, but you'll get used to it later...

 

[Danger Zone]

To me it just indicates he isnt playing football for another ring.

Ed Reed was quoted as absolutely gushing over how likable Rex was as his DC during their time together... and thats probably why he's with Rex now I'm guessing.

That and Im guessing that with the Jets he can just do his thing without worrying so much about schemes and being out of position.. which is something I doubt he could do here.

My two cents.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Different folks have different motivations. Reed has his career, has his accolades, has his ring, and has his $ (Thanks Texans!). So, at this twilight of his career maybe he just wants to kick back and have fun playing for Rex, someone he's comfortable with and who is not a ball buster like BB.

He also gets to golf after New Years.

 

[Jackson 2]

To me it just indicates he isnt playing football for another ring.

Ed Reed was quoted as absolutely gushing over how likable Rex was as his DC during their time together... and thats probably why he's with Rex now I'm guessing.

That and Im guessing that with the Jets he can just do his thing without worrying so much about schemes and being out of position.. which is something I doubt he could do here.

My two cents.

An opinion worth much more than two cents. I think you hit it right out of the park, to coin a baseball phrase (oops, is that allowed?). Just my two cents...