Do the Pats "need" Ty Law?

[PatsWickedPissah]

The basic premise of your question "need Ty Law" is flawed.

Once again, look at how BB thinks. He'd ask "Would we be a BETTER team with Ty Law?" and subsequently, "Could we sign Ty Law at a cap number congruent with his value add?"

The answer to the 1st question in my opinion is Yes, we could use Ty's versatility, talent and knowhow of our specific D as an injury backup at corner, in 5 DB sets and as a rotating safety.
The answer to the 2nd question is up to Miguel's boys, the Postons.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Didn't the Steelers (referees?) already take care of that?

LOL, indeed they did. 21-10 IIRC. Add the I to the end of XL for me will ya

 

[spacecrime]

Without him AND Rodney? I think we do need at least one of those two in the secondary.

Within two-three years we most certainly will not have either one in the secondary. I think we wil be better with Rodney, perhaps even better with Rodney and Ty, but wil be just fine without either one.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

We all hope Rodney is back a some point in the season at 100%. There is almost no chance that happens when the season opens because he will likely not be ready for a full TC in July. It's just the reality of the severity and long term implications of that injury. And it is a good bet the team and the player will approach his situation determined to err on the side of caution because they do need him back. The more realistic scenario is we all hope he will be back much like Tedy at somewhere in the 90%+ range by week 7. Hopefully the moves we already made in the off season will bridge the gap - it should be better than last season given an entire off season to plan for the contingency. And anyone who thinks he is not the best SS in the NFL when healthy is just determined to be a contrarian. When healthy he gives Brady a run for team MVP.

That said we don't have a veteran presence in the secondary who has the familiarity with the system and core personnel or the natural swagger that Ty brings to the position. We have some young talent with potential but not much of a track record with consistency. And we have a veteran in Warfield who as BB says started for KC (like we had one last year who started for AZ and the Ravens but for whatever reason couldn't bring it here).

Ty isn't the missing link - but he could be if the young DB's struggle or battle injuries again this season. And no knock on the youngsters but healthy he starts over anyone currently on the roster. And that does something else BB just loves - it creates competition. We have more cap than we can currently reasonably spend and may end up banking some or frontloading contracts with some just to use it up. Odd situation for us to be in in a year when there will likely be far fewer June 1 cuts to shop for as well.

Ordway touched on this again the other day and reiterated what other media sources have heard - that the lengthy meeting Ty had with BB a few weeks ago basically laid the groundwork for a return. But it remains contingent on Ty and what he decides he ultimately needs or can get financially. He knows on some level it ain't gonna be that $10M signing bonus and $5M per year. If it's ultimately closer to half of that we may get somewhere. There is no hatchet to bury on either side. BB has always loved Ty the player and what he brings, and Ty respects BB the HC and what they can accomplish when they work together. After a two year oddessy in FA, he likely now realizes that when it comes to the business end of things where his career is concerned, BB wasn't very far off the mark. He is potentially looking at a series of phony one year deals for the remainder of his career unless he opts for a reasonable deal under which he could retire a Patriot.

Last season a $2.5M deal with the JETS that contained all manner of phony bells and whistles incentives the Poston's could crow about ended up morphing into a $6.5M 1 year deal. But that had more to do with the JETS jockeying for some sort of cap relief in 2006. BB was prepared to put $5M per year in his hand for 2006 and 2007 under the deal offered in 2004. Although Ty suffered a severe injury subsequent to that offer, the cap has also risen over $20M since then. It's debateable how well he actually played last year even as he made the pro bowl, but the fact remains he played through that injury rehab - a trait this HC admires. He is a year further removed from that injury and if he has been able to train this off season as he was not last season he should be significantly improved and a better bet to play effectively in 2006. While we may not need him he would represent a substantial improvement to the defensive backfield - and unlike some in his emotional fan base, BB will do whatever he can whenever he can to improve this team.

 

[shmessy]

We all hope Rodney is back a some point in the season at 100%. There is almost no chance that happens when the season opens because he will likely not be ready for a full TC in July. It's just the reality of the severity and long term implications of that injury. And it is a good bet the team and the player will approach his situation determined to err on the side of caution because they do need him back. The more realistic scenario is we all hope he will be back much like Tedy at somewhere in the 90%+ range by week 7. Hopefully the moves we already made in the off season will bridge the gap - it should be better than last season given an entire off season to plan for the contingency. And anyone who thinks he is not the best SS in the NFL when healthy is just determined to be a contrarian. When healthy he gives Brady a run for team MVP.

That said we don't have a veteran presence in the secondary who has the familiarity with the system and core personnel or the natural swagger that Ty brings to the position. We have some young talent with potential but not much of a track record with consistency. And we have a veteran in Warrick who as BB says started for KC (like we had one last year who started for AZ and the Ravens but for whatever reason couldn't bring it here).

Ty isn't the missing link - but he could be if the young DB's struggle or battle injuries again this season. And no knock on the youngsters but healthy he starts over anyone currently on the roster. And that does something else BB just loves - it creates competition. We have more cap than we can currently reasonably spend and may end up banking some or frontloading contracts with some just to use it up. Odd situation for us to be in in a year when there will likely be far fewer June 1 cuts to shop for as well.

Ordway touched on this again the other day and reiterated what other media sources have heard - that the lengthy meeting Ty had with BB a few weeks ago basically laid the groundwork for a return. But it remains contingent on Ty and what he decides he ultimately needs or can get financially. He knows on some level it ain't gonna be that $10M signing bonus and $5M per year. If it's ultimately closer to half of that we may get somewhere. There is no hatchet to bury on either side. BB has always loved Ty the player and what he brings, and Ty respects BB the HC and what they can accomplish when they work together. After a two year oddessy in FA, he likely now realizes that when it comes to the business end of things where his career is concerned, BB wasn't very far off the mark. He is potentially looking at a series of phony one year deals for the remainder of his career unless he opts for a reasonable deal under which he could retire a Patriot.

Last season a $2.5M deal with the JETS that contained all manner of phony bells and whistles incentives the Poston's could crow about ended up morphing into a $6.5M 1 year deal. But that had more to do with the JETS jockeying for some sort of cap relief in 2006. BB was prepared to put $5M per year in his hand for 2006 and 2007 under the deal offered in 2004. Although Ty suffered a severe injury subsequent to that offer, the cap has also risen over $20M since then. It's debateable how well he actually played last year even as he made the pro bowl, but the fact remains he played through that injury rehab - a trait this HC admires. He is a year further removed from that injury and if he has been able to train this off season as he was not last season he should be significantly improved and a better bet to play effectively in 2006. While we may not need him he would represent a substantial improvement to the defensive backfield - and unlike some in his emotional fan base, BB will do whatever he can whenever he can to improve this team.

Re: Warrick - - I think you meant Eric Warfield?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't think the 10 mil signing bonus for 3 yrs is a problem if he plays for 2 mil a year after that. 16 mil / 3 yrs = 5.3 mil average. But he wants 10 mil to sign and 7.5 mil a year too!!! 10.8 mil a year average. Not happening.

I don't know where you get these ideas. Apparently you don't understand how contracts work in the NFL. A signing bonus is part of the deal, not an add on. What he is looking for according to what he has actually stated in recent reports is a deal that averages $5M per with $10M of it guaranteed or up front in a signing bonus. So what he is really looking for is a 5 year deal for $25M with $10 up front that guarantees he sees at least 2 of those years. And depending on how a team wants to structure a deal like that his cap could be less than $3M in 2006 and 2007 knowing that to cut him in 2008 would mean a $6M dead cap hit that could be spread over 2 seasons if he were cut after June 1. What we offered him two years ago was 4/$26M with $6M up front and another $10M guaranteed. We ended up taking a $2.5M dead cap hit when we released him last year under an $85M cap we were up tight against.

Just for argument sake, if he were willing to settle for a $6M in guaranteed money (which would make it less likely he sees the out years in his deal but would give him almost $7M to feed his family this year - and the problematic Poston clients have only been averaging about half of what they demand up front) you could sign him to a deal that takes advantage or our cap windfall this season by frontloading half of that guaranteed money as a roster bonus against flat salaries of say $2.5M per and he would cost us $13.5M for 3 years with a $6.1M cap hit this year and $3.1M each in 2007 and 2008 and beyond with a potential dead cap hit of $1.2M or $600K in 2009 or 2010, or $11M for 2 years with a dead cap hit if we cut him in 2008 of just $1.8M which could even be spread over 2 seasons if he were cut after June 1.

Just saying, this is the reality of re-signing Ty here scenario that he and BB are likely discussing. KC has about half of the cap space left we do before signing draft picks and accounting for the regular season roster and PS expenses. And according to Jason Whitlock a couple of other needs they failed to thus far address. Tennessee is currently over the cap with $23M tied up in McNair. They would get about $8.5M under by cutting or trading him, but also have yet to sign the #1QB taken in the 2006 draft and possibly a veteran backup to bolster the roster of Volek and Young which could prove disasterous early on. They would be hard pressed to carry Ty even on a phony backloaded deal, the kind about which they should have learned their lesson by now.

Ty might in fact be a luxury for us, but he is one we could easily afford.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Warrick - - I think you meant Eric Warfield?

Yup, must be a Freudian slip related to how much confidence I have in him filling that veteran presence role after the Starks experiment....

 

[AzPatsFan]

Sailing ships...

At his age, Ty Law "probowl CB", makes a fair rookie safety.

And safeties we got lots of, including long time starters Harrison, Wilson, TeBucky Jones and Artill Hawkins along with a couple of grooming youngsters in Sanders and Scott. And there are other conversion possibilities such as Scott and Warfield.

In short, I think the ship has sailed.

I'd rather have paid the money to Lavar Arrington, frankly...

 

[Hoodie]

Do we need him? No. Would he make the team better? I think so. All I care about is making our team better. (I'm already in mid-season form with the Belichick-speak )

I just wish he'd make a decision. I hate all the Poston-created drama. Just sh*t or get off the pot now Ty.

 

[jct]

Yes,
all of our SBs he was there.
Last year he wasn't there, we didn't go to the SB, he went to pro bowl.
Anyone who doesn't want what he brings to the table: quality isn't a true fan of football IMHO.

 

[tdot36]

in BILL WE TRUST

All I can say is IN BILL WE TRUST!!!!!
He know what TY has left and if the value is there or not.

I found this great Bill Belicheck shirt on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8415435902

 

[ilduce06410]

best, shmest

Why do you get so bent out of shape whenever I give my opinion? It's not like I'm saying Harrison is the worst SS in the league. I just don't think at his age he's the best anymore. About 3 years ago I would say he was easily the best SS in the league though. Feel free to continue overexaggerating though, that's what you're best at.

is RH the best in the league? in the conference? i don't care, not the least.
what he IS is he!! on wheels when he's back there with our squad. the whole thing seems to come together. probably a matter of leadership, but also having a 220-225 lb. safety out there means RBs have to pay every time they get into the secondary. IMO patriots safeties weren't able to do that: big hits, force fumbles, intimidate WRs, play games with the coverages.
looking for another rodney will take a couple years.
personally i hope he takes some time coming back, makes a debut around week 9.

 

[Kdo5]

I can't believe how many people think Hobbs should be starting over Samuel. Granted, Samuel isn't great by any means but he's still better than Hobbs.

I agree with you. Samuel showed improvement towards the end of last season, he notched two playoff interceptions, and 5 in the second half of the season including the playoffs, which is pretty good. I would evry much like to sign him back for a few more years, as I think he can become a pretty solid player. Hobbs showed great potential. There is no starting CB, there are two, a right side corner back and a left side one. Which ever way you switch them they are both starters.

Now, Law is NOT needed back, unless we just want be a complete ball hawking team. Harrison's precense will help Wilson, Hobbs and Samuel back there. Hopefully Chad Scott an Eric Warfield can be of assistance, and I hope Hawkins pulls off a solid season.

 

[Rene Vallieres]

Ty Law

I don't know where you get these ideas. Apparently you don't understand how contracts work in the NFL. A signing bonus is part of the deal, not an add on. What he is looking for according to what he has actually stated in recent reports is a deal that averages $5M per with $10M of it guaranteed or up front in a signing bonus. So what he is really looking for is a 5 year deal for $25M with $10 up front that guarantees he sees at least 2 of those years. And depending on how a team wants to structure a deal like that his cap could be less than $3M in 2006 and 2007 knowing that to cut him in 2008 would mean a $6M dead cap hit that could be spread over 2 seasons if he were cut after June 1. What we offered him two years ago was 4/$26M with $6M up front and another $10M guaranteed. We ended up taking a $2.5M dead cap hit when we released him last year under an $85M cap we were up tight against.

Just for argument sake, if he were willing to settle for a $6M in guaranteed money (which would make it less likely he sees the out years in his deal but would give him almost $7M to feed his family this year - and the problematic Poston clients have only been averaging about half of what they demand up front) you could sign him to a deal that takes advantage or our cap windfall this season by frontloading half of that guaranteed money as a roster bonus against flat salaries of say $2.5M per and he would cost us $13.5M for 3 years with a $6.1M cap hit this year and $3.1M each in 2007 and 2008 and beyond with a potential dead cap hit of $1.2M or $600K in 2009 or 2010, or $11M for 2 years with a dead cap hit if we cut him in 2008 of just $1.8M which could even be spread over 2 seasons if he were cut after June 1.

Just saying, this is the reality of re-signing Ty here scenario that he and BB are likely discussing. KC has about half of the cap space left we do before signing draft picks and accounting for the regular season roster and PS expenses. And according to Jason Whitlock a couple of other needs they failed to thus far address. Tennessee is currently over the cap with $23M tied up in McNair. They would get about $8.5M under by cutting or trading him, but also have yet to sign the #1QB taken in the 2006 draft and possibly a veteran backup to bolster the roster of Volek and Young which could prove disasterous early on. They would be hard pressed to carry Ty even on a phony backloaded deal, the kind about which they should have learned their lesson by now.

Ty might in fact be a luxury for us, but he is one we could easily afford.

Let me re-state: The issue was giving Ty Law a 10 mil signing bonus. I said the 10 mil up front was not the problem, but the salary per year after that was the monkey wrench. So I proposed that the Pats should give him the 10 mil up front as a signing bonus and pay him 2 mil a year for 3 years. This is a 3 year 16 mil contract that figures out to an average of 5.3 mil a year for 3 years. I wasn't saying that he gets paid 5.3 mil a year, I just averaged it out to show that I think if they keep him the full 3 years, he's well worth that kind of money. They could still cut him after the first year, but they would eat all of the signing bonus, because (as far as I know) he gets that right away. However, I went on to say that what Ty was asking for was at least a 3 year deal with 10 mil to sign and 7.5 mil per year after that, and I stated that he's not ever going to get it from the Pats (or anyone). That would average out to 10.8 mil a year for his services and he's not worth those kind of dollars. (as far as the actual structure of the contract, deferred money, what the cap hit is, etc...Yes, I have no idea how that's done or how that is figured.). I was just trying to say that I think Ty is worth 5.3 mil a year, but not 10.8 mil a year. That's just IMHO. Anyway, I based what Ty wanted on what John Clayton said and wrote about Ty Law and his contract demands, which was:

• What's next for Ty Law?
The top free agent is cornerback Law, who wants a $10 million signing bonus and a $7 million salary. Since he's coming off a Pro Bowl season in which he had 10 interceptions, he's in a position to get it. The Chiefs remain the most likely team. The Seahawks were interested but drafted Kelly Jennings in the first round. The Patriots didn't draft a cornerback, and they still have $17 million of cap room. Could the Patriots bring Law back? They could, but that's being presumptuous. The Chiefs might be the more viable option.

Sorry for any confusion..