Disgusted with WRs

[convertedpatsfan]

I hate these types of threads. Let's point out the one pick/trade that went right for someone and ignore all their missteps, then compare it only to our team's problems. I've seen Republican strategists be less biased about Obama than some of the "fans" around here.

And holy ****, why the **** would anyone want us to copy anything the Jets do? Does that not cause even a moment's pause before **** like this gets put onto the Internet?

Yes, the Jets got good value out of trading a 5th for Marshall. They also re-worked his contract to give him $26M over 3 years to a 31-year old receiver. But let's see the full deal play out before judging. One good year doesn't make it a good deal.

And even if we knew without a doubt, we couldn't have done it. We don't have the cap room. But why let reality matter?

And it's not like the Jets took one skilled shot into the WR market and hit bulls-eye while stupid teams like the Patriots missed the mark. Here's what they have spent on WRs over the past 5 years:

DRAFT
2015: 2nd round Devin Smith (injured now, 9 catches in 10 games when healthy)
2014: 4th round Jalen Saunders, Shaq Evans, 6th round Quincy Enunwa
2012: 2nd round Stephen Hill (bust), 7th round Jordan White
2011: 5th round Jeremy Kerley, 7th round Scotty McKnight

Former UDFA Patriot Kenbrell Thompkins had more catches in 7 games for the Jets than 7 of those 8 draft picks this season (Enunwa had 22).

Over the past 5 years, the Jets spent 2 of their 10 1st/2nd round picks on the WR position, and 8 of their 39 draft picks on the position. More than 20% of their picks went to the position.

By comparison, the Patriots spent 1 of 12 1st/2nd round picks at the WR position, and 3 of 43 picks overall. The Seahawks spent 1 of 7 1st/2nds, and 5 of 47 picks.

Guess which teams have won Super Bowls and which team hasn't made the playoffs in the past 5 years?

TRADE
2015: 5th round for Brandon Marshall (good)
2015: trade down in 3rd for extra picks and DeVier Posey
2014: 6th round for Percy Harvin (released on the same day Marshall trade was finalized)

Not going back to the 2010 Santonio Holmes trade or the 2009 Braylon Edwards trade. They were okay but nowhere near what the Jets had hoped but shows a history of trying to fill that position.

BIG FREE AGENT
2014: Eric Decker, 5 years, $36.25M, $15M guaranteed.

SALARY CAP
Between Marshall and Decker, that's $15.5M against the cap, or over 10% of the Jets team total.

So the Jets have invested quite a bit of draft capital and money into trying to figure out this position, and yes, they have two good WRs. They're also spending a ton of money at that position.

Meanwhile, poor Brandon LaFell is getting killed around here since Dola stepped up. The guy has been battling injuries all year, his salary cap hit isn't even $4M, he's closer to Jeremy Kerley in terms of cap hit yet everyone expects him to catch 100 balls for 1,000 yards.

So yeah, the Jets finally got it right. Whoo hoo. Good for them. But let's not pretend they were brilliant talent evaluators. They were due. They got one right. Let's not get too carried away here.

 

[SVN]

WR OL,QB, Coach they all suck ! . We can consolidate all this in 1 thread cant we?

 

[patsfanboy]

For a Super Bowl contender, we have great TE & 1 real good slot receiver. The other receivers are nothing but Jags who would be backups on most of the playoff teams.

Jags
******
LaFell
Amendola
Martin
Dobson
Harper

I would love to see the Patriots get Brady another #1 type WR on the outside to go with Edelman & Gronk.

Amendola has the best hands in this team, and a good route runner, he is no Edelman in terms of creating space and YAC but considering how he step up last year on the playoffs and took a pay cut to be here, he should not be called a Jag by any pats fan.

LaFell is a WR3/4 at most, if he was any better Carolina would never let him go, but going forward I'd rather have Dobson over him, if he ever can stay healthy.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

For a Super Bowl contender, we have great TE & 1 real good slot receiver. The other receivers are nothing but Jags who would be backups on most of the playoff teams.

Quick, name me a receiver other than Maclin on the Chiefs. Teddy Ginn and the Panthers scare anyone? What about the Vikings who is their best receiver? No honestly can you name a vikings receiver? Other than Hopkins are you terrified of Nate Washington and Cecil shorts?

Steelers, Broncos. Those are the teams in the AFC that have two stud receivers. When the Pats play Arizona in the Bowl, which they will, that'll be another team with some WRs that make patsfans.com folk jealous.

The Pats will have Edelman, Gronk, and big game performer Amendola. They need health and blocking, and then I'll take my chances against anyone. Fack everyone focuses so much on the weaknesses here that suddenly a weak AFC field is filled with giants and killers.

Something tells me the team will practice hard and prepare to win, and doom and gloom will give way to sunny skies.

 

[Marinlik]

FFS, why won't you people ever learn? They just played a game where having a legit deep guy, instead of Martin and Lafell, would likely have been the difference between a win and a loss, and you start posting this nonsense...

Having guys that could get open at all would have made a big difference. Or having an OL that could block. Both of those where bigger problems than missing a deep threat.

 

[Marinlik]

Amendola has the best hands in this team, and a good route runner, he is no Edelman in terms of creating space and YAC but considering how he step up last year on the playoffs and took a pay cut to be here, he should not be called a Jag by any pats fan.

LaFell is a WR3/4 at most, if he was any better Carolina would never let him go, but going forward I'd rather have Dobson over him, if he ever can stay healthy.

You'd rather have Dobson, than LaFell who had more yards last year than Dobson has had in his whole career? We are talking about a (just shy of) 1000 yard receiver who missed the whole off-season as well as first half of the regular season with an injury. Sometimes stuff like that affects performance. -

 

[cupofjoe1962]

Quick, name me a receiver other than Maclin on the Chiefs. Teddy Ginn and the Panthers scare anyone? What about the Vikings who is their best receiver? No honestly can you name a vikings receiver? Other than Hopkins are you terrified of Nate Washington and Cecil shorts?

Steelers, Broncos. Those are the teams in the AFC that have two stud receivers. When the Pats play Arizona in the Bowl, which they will, that'll be another team with some WRs that make patsfans.com folk jealous.

The Pats will have Edelman, Gronk, and big game performer Amendola. They need health and blocking, and then I'll take my chances against anyone. Fack everyone focuses so much on the weaknesses here that suddenly a weak AFC field is filled with giants and killers.

Something tells me the team will practice hard and prepare to win, and doom and gloom will give way to sunny skies.

Did you ever hear of Mike Wallace?
What about Stefon Diggs? Not a bad TE either in Kyle Rudolph.

Shorts is injury prone, but so is Amendola. Shorts had a couple of good years for the Jags.

This is Amendola's 7th year in the league & he has a total of 13 career touchdowns. That is less than 2 a year.

That is a JAG !

 

[cupofjoe1962]

Amendola has the best hands in this team, and a good route runner, he is no Edelman in terms of creating space and YAC but considering how he step up last year on the playoffs and took a pay cut to be here, he should not be called a Jag by any pats fan.

LaFell is a WR3/4 at most, if he was any better Carolina would never let him go, but going forward I'd rather have Dobson over him, if he ever can stay healthy.

Amendola - 13 touchdowns in 7 seasons. That is less than 2 per season.

Maybe if he could stay healthy....
But he can't.

 

[BobDigital]

The WRs generally are fine. The issue is top talent. You are not going to have too many top talented guys cause most teams don't. We have a #1 and #2 option on offense (Edelman/Gronk) and having those 2 puts everyone else in position to make plays. Amendola/LaFell/Ect are fine as long as they are matched on on appropriately skilled defenders. We should look to try to upgrade though but FA is not gonna be a good spot to do it next year IMO.

 

[MassPats38]

Stefan Diggs,Devin Fucnchess, Tyler Lockett
Jaleel Strong, Chris Conley,Dorial Green Beckham.
One of those players on this team makes a difference Chris Harper is awful.
Brian Tyms was our best receiver at attacking the ball.
Its a shame he got hurt he should be getting reps ovef Lafell im sure he could of took the next step.

I see there are other receivers you would like to have. Now answer how they could have ended up on the Pats (specifically, in the draft who gets dumped from the Pats roster) given the draft order. If you are really being realistic rather than pouting over players that would make you happy at week 17 of the NFL season knowing now how things panned out for player X (rather than draft day when limitations are part of the process and the answer key to draft steals is not in hand), then reconfigure the Pats draft selections and explain how the team is better without the selections made. Also factor in how these receivers help as rookies in a complex offensive system that takes most 1 full year to grasp. The Pats offense is not simply running 'go' patterns.

It looks like you listed every projected 1st rounder from the draft. Not shocking. I too would like Beckham, or Julio Jones, or Calvin Johnson. Those choices tend to be (1) unavailable when the Pats draft or (2) prohibitively expensive to get as a free agent. I understand the lament when the team looks like this with injuries, but if you believe you have a legitimate complaint then play GM with all the limitations and say how dumping everything to get a WR makes the Pats a better team rather than having better talent at a single position that will not win a game on its own.

 

[patriot1136]

If we can fix the o-line than all of the receivers will look better. When we have Edelman and Dola back, it will take a lot of pressure off of LaFell and Martin.

 

[PatsFan2]

If we can fix the o-line than all of the receivers will look better. When we have Edelman and Dola back, it will take LaFell off the football field.

There fixed it for ya.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

What some people fail to understand is with the lack of a deep threat, teams can double Gronk with a LB underneath and a safety over the top (like Miami did) plus of course, they are allowed to hold, hit and otherwise impede Gronk with impunity. Having a deep threat would (one that would actually run the whole route and fight for the ball) would help make room for that quick short passing game that the Pats like. Those of us, that are calling for a deep threat WR, don't want the pats to chuck the ball 40 yards downfield everyplay, we want the threat of the deep ball (and of course the ocassional actual deep ball that gets caught (and not called back on some bogus OPI or other penalty) to help in opening up the underneath game.

Imagine if say instead of wasting yet another second round pick on Richardson (#346th failed DB pick in the BB regime) the Pats took Lockett. He would have been a threat returning kicks (which would have saved both wear and tear on both Edelman and Amendola) and added a deep threat. Nobody would expect him to play a majority of the snaps, but if you want to clamp down on Gronk and Edelman underneath, then you chuck it deep to Lockett and see if you hit it, or at the very least, makes the defense have to respect the deep ball and account for it schematically.

 

[letekro]

What some people fail to understand is with the lack of a deep threat, teams can double Gronk with a LB underneath and a safety over the top (like Miami did) plus of course, they are allowed to hold, hit and otherwise impede Gronk with impunity. Having a deep threat would (one that would actually run the whole route and fight for the ball) would help make room for that quick short passing game that the Pats like. Those of us, that are calling for a deep threat WR, don't want the pats to chuck the ball 40 yards downfield everyplay, we want the threat of the deep ball (and of course the ocassional actual deep ball that gets caught (and not called back on some bogus OPI or other penalty) to help in opening up the underneath game.

Imagine if say instead of wasting yet another second round pick on Richardson (#346th failed DB pick in the BB regime) the Pats took Lockett. He would have been a threat returning kicks (which would have saved both wear and tear on both Edelman and Amendola) and added a deep threat. Nobody would expect him to play a majority of the snaps, but if you want to clamp down on Gronk and Edelman underneath, then you chuck it deep to Lockett and see if you hit it, or at the very least, makes the defense have to respect the deep ball and account for it schematically.

Sounds nice in theory, and I think that's how they view Dobson (and how they used him before he caught the injury bug), but did you forget how much stress they put on a defense last year and this year before the injuries?? The offense was thoroughly unstoppable when they had Gronk-Edelman-Amendola-Lewis wreaking havoc. Nary a classic "deep threat" among them.

 

[DW Toys]

This should probably wait until the off-season, but...

4th rounder for Josh Gordon or hope Megatron gets released and takes a friendly 1 year deal for a ring

Or...

I think the Pats receivers going into the playoffs are the worst set. If JE gets healthy that helps but they have the best QB and terrible WR (at this point in time). Dola is playing on one leg but even all WR healthy, who would you rate as worse WR core than NE? Danny is a great #4 guy and JE might be the best slot in the game but who is #1?, #2? Nyet on any of them. GB lost their stud but have gotten great numbers from cast off Jones who the Pats ignored.

The 2016 WR Draft class is weak compared to the last two years. Without a #1 pick, my feeling is BB goes out for some middle of the road FA help to not break the bank, but higher tier than usual.

In a perfect world, my only two additions next year would be Megatron and Eric Weddle. Yes both are big bucks but..........Then pick up a stud OT in the Draft and reliable TE for the rotation and to groom.

Megatron is obvious but Weddle and McCourty would be the best deep pair in the business intelligence wise. Now I use Chung as an OLB like the Cards use Bucannon with great success.

Megtron and Weddle both want rings and are 30 and 31 respectively so a few years left.

Well here is a list of possible free agent WRs the Pats might look at not in any particular order (after Megatron):

Top shelf:
Alshon Jeffrey-Possible H of F talent with the right QB. You would have to pay but he had some injuries in 2015. I might take the younger Jeffrey over Megatron if that was an option. Yes I pay up on him.

Next level:

Mohamed Sanu-Good size and production. I am sure BB knows him well (Rutgers). Very versatile and a good fit in the Pats offense. Ions better than Lafell. His is a #3 guy on the Bengals. Might have #1 ability here.

Marvin Jones-Good size .65 catches. Can't see Cinn. keeps both.

BB type under-the-radar guys:

Chris Givens-World class speed. 4.35 40! Good size and Josh knows him.

Chris Hogan-6'1" and 215. He would not start but as a #4 WR he had 35 receptions and 41 the prior year. Good ST player. Has burned the Pats. LaFell does not play ST. 35 receptions with crap as QB? This kid is a tough guy. RFA.

Seth Roberts-6'2" 196lbs. 4.4 speed. Teammate of Butler at that powerhouse West Alabama. 32 receptions as a #3 guy but made some highlight reel ones. Yes he did have Cooper to help his coverage. He is a ERFA
Look at this.
Week 12: Seth Roberts highlights

Raiders QB Derek Carr seals a win against Titans

http://www.raiders.com/media-vault/...t_Titans/b4042d31-ab6e-4060-a8d8-910fb48d9b65

DW Toys

 

[DSting]

LaFell runs a lot of vertical routes and we need a receiver to do that in order to stretch the opposing D and create space for other receivers. How often has Brady had a chance to drop without pressure? Those routes are intricately timed. In order to hit a deep throw, Brady would need 5 or 7 step drops without any disruption.
Another big point about receivers--how is his blocking? Nothing looks worse than a receiver who won't block on run plays or screens.

 

[patsfanboy]

Amendola - 13 touchdowns in 7 seasons. That is less than 2 per season.

Maybe if he could stay healthy....
But he can't.

This season targeted/completion, might be a little off.

87/65 Amendola

88/61 Julian

120/ 72 Gronk

74/37 LaFell

21/13 Dobson

Amendola and Julian have almost the identical stats, he made lots 4th downs catches this year to keep the drive alive. About the health issue, yes it happens, but people said the same exact words about Julian when Wes was here.

You'd rather have Dobson, than LaFell who had more yards last year than Dobson has had in his whole career? We are talking about a (just shy of) 1000 yard receiver who missed the whole off-season as well as first half of the regular season with an injury. Sometimes stuff like that affects performance. -

He was called LaDrop back in college for a reason, and he didn't stay with the Panthers cause Carolina didn't find him worth it, last year was the odd one out of his entire NFL career. He is a fine WR3/4, but Dobson will be cheaper to keep for someone that's the same physical attributes.

 

[Marinlik]

This season targeted/completion, might be a little off.

87/65 Amendola

88/61 Julian

120/ 72 Gronk

74/37 LaFell

21/13 Dobson

Amendola and Julian have almost the identical stats, he made lots 4th downs catches this year to keep the drive alive. About the health issue, yes it happens, but people said the same exact words about Julian when Wes was here.



He was called LaDrop back in college for a reason, and he didn't stay with the Panthers cause Carolina didn't find him worth it, last year was the odd one out of his entire NFL career. He is a fine WR3/4, but Dobson will be cheaper to keep for someone that's the same physical attributes.

And yet LaFell gets about 700 yards a season, every year exept this injured one, which is the real outlier. I understand that Dobson has been injured too, and that has hampered him. The problem is that it has been the case every year for him so far. Dobsons outlier is getting a high of 318 yards. Lafells is getting 468 his rookie season, and 515 in 11 games this year. LaFell has proven to be much more consistent than Dobson. I take thatover physical numbers every day, as many guys in the NFL are big and fast, but never put it together on the field.

 

[cupofjoe1962]

This season targeted/completion, might be a little off.

87/65 Amendola

88/61 Julian

120/ 72 Gronk

74/37 LaFell

21/13 Dobson

Amendola and Julian have almost the identical stats, he made lots 4th downs catches this year to keep the drive alive. About the health issue, yes it happens, but people said the same exact words about Julian when Wes was here.



He was called LaDrop back in college for a reason, and he didn't stay with the Panthers cause Carolina didn't find him worth it, last year was the odd one out of his entire NFL career. He is a fine WR3/4, but Dobson will be cheaper to keep for someone that's the same physical attributes.

Yards per games played & Total touchdowns in 2015.

Gronk - 78.4 Ypg - 11 touchdowns
Edelman - 76.9 ypg - 7 Touchdowns
Amendola - 46.3 ypg - 3 Touchdowns

Please don't compare Amendola to Gronk & Edelman.

Amendola's 13 touchdowns in 7 years .
Less than 2 touchdowns per year avg over his career. ..... That is a JAG

 

[DW Toys]

This season targeted/completion, might be a little off.

87/65 Amendola

88/61 Julian

120/ 72 Gronk

74/37 LaFell

21/13 Dobson

Amendola and Julian have almost the identical stats, he made lots 4th downs catches this year to keep the drive alive. About the health issue, yes it happens, but people said the same exact words about Julian when Wes was here.



He was called LaDrop back in college for a reason, and he didn't stay with the Panthers cause Carolina didn't find him worth it, last year was the odd one out of his entire NFL career. He is a fine WR3/4, but Dobson will be cheaper to keep for someone that's the same physical attributes.

I have a thought. We might have that outstanding WR right now on the roster for 2016.

Why not install James White as a WR in 2016. His running is mediocre anyway, but as a receiver he has flashes of brilliance. He is actually bigger than JE and Danny and even bigger than stars Antonio Brown. We all assume that Dion Lewis is headed for a new larger role in 2016 and Blount will be back at RB. White has enough speed and after the catch should be outstanding. Brady has confidence in him is the key! 40 catches and he sat some at the beginning of the year.

Thoughts?
DW Toys