Did Malcolm Butler ask for the moon?

[supafly]

The majority will feel as though the Patriots would simply squat on his rights by forcing him to stay here one last year, but Belichick has also shown a pattern of breaking free from problematic relationships. I think he feels it's best for player, team, and coach.

If no one bites on a first round offer sheet (quite unlikely in my opinion. Hasn't happened in 14 yrs), then Butler, his agent, and Belichick are all able to shop him around to the highest bidder, assuming of course, that Butler will sign the RFA tender. That could certainly mean other possibilities, such as a second round draft pick, or a trade for a player of comparable talent. I think too many are getting caught up in the "first rounder or nothing" idea, but there's no guarantee that Belichick will keep a disgruntled player around if he no longer wishes to be here. In my opinion, there's even less evidence to suggest that another team will offer a first round offer sheet.

I think a deal gets worked out via Butler's agent and another suitor, Butler signs his RFA tender, and Belichick trades him fairly quickly thereafter.

Not sure what you'd "dislike" about any of this information, QM? Boy, you throw those things out like candy. Florio basically said the exact same thing this morning (clearly after reading my post).

Saints, Patriots will tread lightly on Malcolm Butler deal

 

[supafly]

He is a top-10 corner in the league. Those guys don't grow and trees and you can't just replace them with the #11 pick in the draft.

Luckily, we don't have to worry about what they'd do with the 11th overall pick in the draft because there's absolutely no way the Saints are parting with that.

Let's just hope we can get the #32 selection back if the Saints sign him to an offer sheet. Obviously, it won't be matched.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Yes I get it. He is a RFA. He can't force a deal as if he wasn't an RFA. But he isn't going to take $40M when he will get $65 M (if not more) within 1 year.

He is a top-10 corner in the league. Those guys don't grow and trees and you can't just replace them with the #11 pick in the draft. So all of Belichick's knowledge of "the market" will not help when Butler joins some other team's secondary.

But again... you're criticizing Butler for something which you have no evidence happened and for refusing an offer you have no evidence he received. All you have is "it's very likely this type of conversation occurred."

My post was in response to those saying that Butler's agent has been demanding for a year that the old deal be ripped up, so it was just an illustration not a criticism.

A year ago, those are the types of numbers that would have been discussed, around a $16m difference over 5 years. Now, a year later, the Pats have likely been pitching 4 years @ 4/13/13/13, with Butler countering at 13/13/13/13, so it's a $9m difference over 4 years (something similar to that).

The question is whether Butler is right or wrong to play this game. He's incurring huge risk that he doesn't hurt a knee or have his play tail off, as opposed to taking a bonus that would set him up for life.

BB doesn't care, he's shown a hundred times over that the numbers are the numbers and he'll just move on and get what he can for the guy as he says good-bye. By signing Gilmore, he's taken the risk out of this for his team. Now I don't think we'll see Butler long term which is too bad cause we all love him. We'll either get a year out of him with maybe a comp pick, or we trade him soon for probably a 2nd rounder and change

 

[Simpelton]

Luckily, we don't have to worry about what they'd do with the 11th overall pick in the draft because there's absolutely no way the Saints are parting with that.

Let's just hope we can get the #32 selection back if the Saints sign him to an offer sheet. Obviously, it won't be matched.

Even a disgruntled Butler is worth more than the #32 pick. That's a pure fact.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Why wouldn't he ask for everything? You never know who is going to break the bank fpr a FA in the NFL. I don't begrudge a player looking to maximize his worth.

 

[DarrylS]

Signing the tender right now would be stupid. You call his agent a "major problem" but what you mean is that he is representing the best interests of his client and not the best interest of the team - which is what agents are *supposed* to do.

Why not sign?? According to the CBA he has no choice... do you want him to sit out??

FYI his agent is a personal injury attorney, not a skilled sports agent. In the rarified air that Malcolm exists, you want someone who knows what they are doing instead of just leaking stuff to the press as some form of negotiating strategy. MB is not a "victim" of the nefarious Patriots..

Is it coincidental that the two teams that are going to interview MB both have strong ties to the NEP???

The easiest solution for all, is to sign his tender and then the Pats can sign him to a long term deal commencing next year... there is enough room under the cap to sign both DH and MB to Gilmore type contracts, with plenty of money left over.

 

[kennyb]

Two problems for butler.

He's an rfa and the pats arent giving that value up for nothing.

He wants top 10 cb money and he's not even close to a top 10cb, unless you're talking to homers here. They should offer him more than talib or harris? That's off the charts homer, sorry.

UFA he'd make far less than top 10 cb. Top 30 maybe.

 

[kennyb]

Even a disgruntled Butler is worth more than the #32 pick. That's a pure fact.

I think they'd rather have the pick. A 4m one year disgruntled butler or 4 year cheap guy who is probably a far better athlete than butler.

Too bad they gave a first round tender, should have been a 2nd. Easier for a disgruntled guy to leave and cheaper if he stays. That would give him something to complain about.

 

[kennyb]

Pats have enough money to sign butler to gilmore's deal?

I think that's exactly how they don't look at it. He's not worth it even as if he were an ufa. So they won't do it. Are they going to let other players walk because they have huge money tied up in a try hard feel good story with slightly above skills for a starting cb? Especially with 2 other dbs making huge money? Don't think so.

 

[IllegalContact]

the way I see it is considering that ballpark money should lead you to do some shopping around for other options.......if the front office sees Gilmore as a better corner, then that's that....just because Logan Ryan got 10M/yr somewhere doesn't mean that the world forgoes the free agency process when it comes to butler, and the Pats are entitled to getting his 4th year at 4M or the required compensation should he sign somewhere else

no need to get emotional......this is how it has worked for quite some time

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Why not sign?? According to the CBA he has no choice... do you want him to sit out??

No. He neither wants nor expects Butler to sit out. But he's absolutely right that there's no reason for Butler to sign NE's tender before 21 April if Butler isn't satisfied.

 

[XLIX]

Why not sign??

Because then he loses the ability to talk to, negotiate with, and accept offers from other teams.

According to the CBA he has no choice... do you want him to sit out??

Sit out what? It's March. He is not missing a damn thing. If he sits out of training camp and loses the $3.9 tender then absolutely I'll change my stance. But fact is that right now, March 15, he gains absolutely nothing by signing.

FYI his agent is a personal injury attorney, not a skilled sports agent. In the rarified air that Malcolm exists, you want someone who knows what they are doing instead of just leaking stuff to the press as some form of negotiating strategy. MB is not a "victim" of the nefarious Patriots..

Yes I'm aware that he has an unusual representative. Regardless, we haven't seen a single thing from this guy that we haven't seen countless times from other, "skilled sports agents."

Is it coincidental that the two teams that are going to interview MB both have strong ties to the NEP???

I hardly consider the Saints to have "strong ties." Yes Payton and BB are, by all accounts, very friendly but they hardly have a long history of working together.

The easiest solution for all, is to sign his tender and then the Pats can sign him to a long term deal commencing next year...

Very easy to say for someone with no skin in the game. Not quite as easy for the guy who has tens of millions on the line.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Two problems for butler.

He's an rfa and the pats arent giving that value up for nothing.

He wants top 10 cb money and he's not even close to a top 10cb, unless you're talking to homers here. They should offer him more than talib or harris? That's off the charts homer, sorry.

UFA he'd make far less than top 10 cb. Top 30 maybe.

I agree with you that Pats won't and shouldn't give up the rfa ($4m) value for 2017. However, I disagree that he's not a top 10 CB, give or take 2 spots maybe.

Above average press coverage skills, the best make-up speed in the league, the best hand activity breaking up passes that look completed, as good a tackler as any corner, and as rugged and durable as any corner. He's a great package as a cornerback. Very few players could make the many plays he made in the SB 49, and he's been solid as a rock since then. I don't know what you're smoking to say there's 25 other CB's you'd rather have than Butler.

 

[DarrylS]

Because then he loses the ability to talk to, negotiate with, and accept offers from other teams.
Sit out what? It's March. He is not missing a damn thing. If he sits out of training camp and loses the $3.9 tender then absolutely I'll change my stance. But fact is that right now, March 15, he gains absolutely nothing by signing.
Yes I'm aware that he has an unusual representative. Regardless, we haven't seen a single thing from this guy that we haven't seen countless times from other, "skilled sports agents."
I hardly consider the Saints to have "strong ties." Yes Payton and BB are, by all accounts, very friendly but they hardly have a long history of working together.
Very easy to say for someone with no skin in the game. Not quite as easy for the guy who has tens of millions on the line.

He has to sign the tender one way or another, his agent is a fool for playing this game in the press.. you believe that this agent is as knowledgeable as any of the more familiar agents?? Do you think MB would have fared better with a more "NFL Wise" agent?? The Pats are not going to blink because of some bad press put out there by a rookie agent..

BB and Payton are both linked to Parcells, and their joint practices solidify their relationship. They also have a kinship based on false scandals by the League office.. IMO the deal with NOLA was made about the same time as the Cooks trade. The details will be whether or not MB accepts the offer of the Saints.. Doubt Saints will offer MB Gilmore money..

OTOH Vicksburg is about 200 miles from NOLA, so that might be attractive to MB... he is a hometown hero in Vicksburg. They even have parades for him..

I do not have skin the game, but am a huge fan who knows that MB should accept the tender and move on. He can insure himself for about for a 20 million tax free insurance policy in case something happens(that will cost about $200K). The RFA provision was agreed to by his union and has become a rule of the game.. his agent seems to think he can make that different. Hint, he can't!!...

 

[XLIX]

He has to sign the tender one way or another,

Actually no he doesn't but even if that is indeed what comes to pass, he still have 3 months to wait without losing anything by waiting. But he loses a LOT by signing it now.

his agent is a fool for playing this game in the press.. you believe that this agent is as knowledgeable as any of the more familiar agents??

What I am saying is we haven't seen anything from this agent that we haven't seen from countless agents in the past.

I mean, really... you're criticizing the guy for leaking a little contract offer details to the press. Really..??!?

Do you think MB would have fared better with a more "NFL Wise" agent?? The Pats are not going to blink because of some bad press put out there by a rookie agent..

I don't see a single thing that a more "NFL wise" agent would be doing differently.

BB and Payton are both linked to Parcells, and their joint practices solidify their relationship.

Belichick has been in the NFL for about 40 years now. If you're going to go that deep, then you can say he "has a relationship" with about 3/4th of the rest of the league.

They also have a kinship based on false scandals by the League office..

Who gives a **** about that?? Do you really believe that has one iota of relevance to the current situation??

Belichick: "Yeah, Sean, we were both screwed over by the league office, so I'll give you Butler for less than I could get elsewhere...."

I do not have skin the game, but am a huge fan who knows that MB should accept the tender and move on.

That's cool how you think the smart thing to do is just throw any leverage he has down the drain right now so he can play in New England another year.

And to think, you call Butler's agent an idiot.

 

[Obidan]

Saints, Patriots will tread lightly on Malcolm Butler deal

No matter how lightly they tread, Commissar Goodell is likely to find fault.

 

[Love The Drake]

No matter how lightly they tread, Commissar Goodell is likely to find fault.

His 2 favorite teams

 

[RayClay]

If you're going to reference...c'mon

 

[Thelonious]

What would be the cap implications of actually GIVING him the moon?

 

[UGAPatsfan]

I think a lot of fans are vastly over valuing Butler both in terms of picks, and comp. My guess is we get a 2 for him at best.