Did Malcolm Butler ask for the moon?

[bbobbo]

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Can't see Bill abandoning his secret Moon spying base and giving the whole thing to Butler.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

He hasn't signed yet because they still cannot find what he asked for.

 

[Marqui]

Lol good luck with that.

 

[RayClay]

The Patriots don't have to offer anything, he is under contract. If another team wants him, they forfeit a 1st. Any agent expecting them to rip up his contract as if he's a UFA, is a moron.

 

[ViperGTS]

The Patriots don't have to offer anything, he is under contract. If another team wants him, they forfeit a 1st. Any agent expecting them to rip up his contract as if he's a UFA, is a moron.

Well then his agent is a moron. Or Butler is making his agent look like a moron. If that's the case, his agent is doing exactly what he is supposed to do, work it how his client wants it.

It's a disaster all around and unlike some loser reporters (Giardi) none of this is the Pats fault. None.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Four tangible possibilities?:
1- Butler signs a contract that is discounted based on getting a big payday one year early.
2- Butler finds a team that wants to sign him for the nig money and Patriots get a first round draft choice.
3- Butler and his agent eventually accept the hardball tactic with BB won't pay off into a top UFA contract. Butler signs/plays out his RFA contract
4- Butler holds out and takes it right up to week 1 or more. (Maybe he can gets a no Franchise tag commitment for 2018?? Or maybe a team is found to make a deal??)

Likeliest is.... 3? We'll know by April 20 if he signs the offer sheet?

Outside of that the propaganda tact of negotiations will be thick enough to slice with a knife,

 

[supafly]

Four tangible possibilities?:
1- Butler signs a contract that is discounted based on getting a big payday one year early.
2- Butler finds a team that wants to sign him for the nig money and Patriots get a first round draft choice.
3- Butler and his agent eventually accept the hardball tactic with BB won't pay off into a top UFA contract. Butler signs/plays out his RFA contract
4- Butler holds out and takes it right up to week 1 or more. (Maybe he can gets a no Franchise tag commitment for 2018?? Or maybe a team is found to make a deal??)

Likeliest is.... 3? We'll know by April 20 if he signs the offer sheet?

Outside of that the propaganda tact of negotiations will be thick enough to slice with a knife,

The majority will feel as though the Patriots would simply squat on his rights by forcing him to stay here one last year, but Belichick has also shown a pattern of breaking free from problematic relationships. I think he feels it's best for player, team, and coach.

If no one bites on a first round offer sheet (quite unlikely in my opinion. Hasn't happened in 14 yrs), then Butler, his agent, and Belichick are all able to shop him around to the highest bidder, assuming of course, that Butler will sign the RFA tender. That could certainly mean other possibilities, such as a second round draft pick, or a trade for a player of comparable talent. I think too many are getting caught up in the "first rounder or nothing" idea, but there's no guarantee that Belichick will keep a disgruntled player around if he no longer wishes to be here. In my opinion, there's even less evidence to suggest that another team will offer a first round offer sheet.

I think a deal gets worked out via Butler's agent and another suitor, Butler signs his RFA tender, and Belichick trades him fairly quickly thereafter.

 

[resdubwhite]

The Patriots don't have to offer anything, he is under contract. If another team wants him, they forfeit a 1st. Any agent expecting them to rip up his contract as if he's a UFA, is a moron.

This this and this. Anyone that thinks BB is going to give up the RFA year isn't paying attention.

 

[wizwor]

I love Malcolm Butler, but let's stop with the 'heart' crap. In high school, he only played two years of football -- freshman and senior -- so his 'love for football' or 'heart' did not keep him on the field. Butler was kicked off his college football team at Hinds Community College (arrested and charged with possession of drug paraphernalia). The Pats scouted MB and gave him an opportunity. The lore of The Play is that the team practiced the play, Malcolm was beaten on it and coached up. When the play came up again in the Superbowl, if you listened to the mic'd up video, the coaches were scrambling to get Butler on the field. The following year, a lot of people thought he was a vulnerability.

So, here is a kid who had an attitude problem and a lot of potential who was scouted and signed by the Pats, received coaching well, and became an nfl star at an important position. Good for him.

Butler should ENTHUSIASTICLY play through his tender, any franchise tags, and whatever else the Pats 'inflict' on him, because he was making $5.80/hr at Popeyes when they found him and NO OTHER TEAM would have put him in position to make that play.

Malcolm, fire your agent and make things right with the Patriots and you will have a long and lucrative career with a lot of bling to show your grand kids.

 

[patsfan13]

Butler was offered an extension last year that would have factored in his year before RFA and his RFA status, It would have provided a guarantee and protection against injury. Apparently he wanted FA money from the get go. NOT a realistic expectation. I suspect that if his representative had more experience as an NFL agent a deal could have been worked out.

Sadly that won't be the case. IF he signs the RFA offer then he will likely be dealt for a 2nd round pick. This is a money sport and he is a professional.

 

[DarrylS]

Derek Simpson is not an NFL agent which is a major problem, he has no experience in this realm.. thus he seems to be screwing things up for Butler.. Simpson is controlling the narrative, which will not bait the Patriots into some sort of war of words.

Malcolm Butler is pretty much today where Stephon Gilmore was last year at this time.. for some reason he wants to leapfrog the CBA and get his big pay day now.

I am a huge MB fan, but he is getting really crappy advise from his so called "agent"...

Now Simpson says he is shopping MB, and supposedly several teams are interested, so the expectation will be that a team will give up a 1st round pick and pay MB top tier CB money??

Here is the solution sign the tender, and coincidentally ask the Pats to present an offer that will take place commencing 2018... that may solve a bunch of issues.

 

[PittPatriot]

Everything was falling into place until that "bowl of mush" came up. That always seems to be the hangup.

 

[The Gr8est]

Well yes and no.

He DID ask for the moon, but he wants Jupiter's moon, Io, and that is a non-starter.

 

[XLIX]

Derek Simpson is not an NFL agent which is a major problem, he has no experience in this realm.. thus he seems to be screwing things up for Butler.. Simpson is controlling the narrative, which will not bait the Patriots into some sort of war of words.

Malcolm Butler is pretty much today where Stephon Gilmore was last year at this time.. for some reason he wants to leapfrog the CBA and get his big pay day now.

I am a huge MB fan, but he is getting really crappy advise from his so called "agent"...

Now Simpson says he is shopping MB, and supposedly several teams are interested, so the expectation will be that a team will give up a 1st round pick and pay MB top tier CB money??

Here is the solution sign the tender, and coincidentally ask the Pats to present an offer that will take place commencing 2018... that may solve a bunch of issues.

Signing the tender right now would be stupid. You call his agent a "major problem" but what you mean is that he is representing the best interests of his client and not the best interest of the team - which is what agents are *supposed* to do.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Butler would never be offered Gilmore's contract. Any Butler/Patriots package would include his cost controlled 2017 RFA tender price....no more. Gilmore is receiving compensation based on 5 unrestricted years.
Furthermore.....it has been reported that Butler's agent requested NE forfeit their 2017 RFA control over Butler....hence the statement..."asking for the moon."

Butler's agent's two likely motives:
1) See if BB blinks. (he didn't......BB went shopping instead)
2) Expedite Butler's exit from NE to a team willing to relinquish the leverage they would possess if Butler's rights were traded.

Butler, his agent, and the football world know what Belichick values....a focused player in a single objective locker room. How likely will Bill keep Butler on the roster this year with no new contract when the conversation next year would be...will NE franchise Butler.

If that's what went down the past year, that his agent has been seeking UFA money for 2016 & 2017 as part of a 4 or 5 year deal, then that was a big mistake. The total dollar value should have been very straightforward: $1m for 2016, $4m for 2017, and say $13m for each year beyond. So a 5 year deal would have been $44m.

The key advantage to Butler is he'd have received a big up-front bonus, say $14m, with the other $30m spread over the 5 years as salary - say $1m, $4m, $8m, $8m, $9m - which would have totaled $27m for the first 3 years, with most of it guaranteed. Instead now he's in this world of uncertainty.

 

[Angelpats]

I am glad he didn't sign the tender otherwise he might be in New Orleans now. It going to be make or break soon either before the draft or training camp when the pats start thinking about who plays opposite Gilmore. Pats are going to offer an extension and we have Butler for a long time or he signs that tender and his future with us will be uncertain. He helped win us a Super Bowl and the one thing BB judges contracts on is whether a player has made big plays so I think we will have Butler long term. That said I think we overpaid for Gilmore. We played against him 5 years, twice each year and I don't remember him doing well against us.

 

[XLIX]

If that's what went down the past year, that his agent has been seeking UFA money for 2016 & 2017 as part of a 4 or 5 year deal, then that was a big mistake. The total dollar value should have been very straightforward: $1m for 2016, $4m for 2017, and say $13m for each year beyond. So a 5 year deal would have been $44m.

The key advantage to Butler is he'd have received a big up-front bonus, say $14m, with the other $30m spread over the 5 years as salary - say $1m, $4m, $8m, $8m, $9m - which would have totaled $27m for the first 3 years, with most of it guaranteed. Instead now he's in this world of uncertainty.

Where in the world are you getting the idea he had anything that even remotely resembles an offer of 5 years, $44 million??

Seriously, you people are criticizing Butler (and his agent) for not signing these completely made-up, hypothetical deals that exist only in your imagination.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Where in the world are you getting the idea he had anything that even remotely resembles an offer of 5 years, $44 million??

Seriously, you people are criticizing Butler (and his agent) for not signing these completely made-up, hypothetical deals that exist only in your imagination.

that was an example to show how NE wants Butler & his agent to view the $$ in the context of his leverage/FA status. i.e., count 2016 as $1m, 2017 as $4m, 2018 to 2020 at the market rate of about $12m, and make a package out of that with an upfront bonus. $44m total, not $60m, an average of $8.8m/yr, not $12m. It's very realistic that this type of discussion occurred, and that Butler didn't like the sounds of $8.8m average when lesser players were making $12m & more.

BB knows the market better than anyone, and as shown by the Gilmore signing he has no problem paying the market when he wants the player. But he won't rip up lower years salaries and start paying as if those didn't exist.

 

[XLIX]

that was an example to show how NE wants Butler & his agent to view the $$ in the context of his leverage/FA status. i.e., count 2016 as $1m, 2017 as $4m, 2018 to 2020 at the market rate of about $12m, and make a package out of that with an upfront bonus. $44m total, not $60m, an average of $8.8m/yr, not $12m. It's very realistic that this type of discussion occurred, and that Butler didn't like the sounds of $8.8m average when lesser players were making $12m & more.

BB knows the market better than anyone, and as shown by the Gilmore signing he has no problem paying the market when he wants the player. But he won't rip up lower years salaries and start paying as if those didn't exist.

Yes I get it. He is a RFA. He can't force a deal as if he wasn't an RFA. But he isn't going to take $40M when he will get $65 M (if not more) within 1 year.

He is a top-10 corner in the league. Those guys don't grow and trees and you can't just replace them with the #11 pick in the draft. So all of Belichick's knowledge of "the market" will not help when Butler joins some other team's secondary.

But again... you're criticizing Butler for something which you have no evidence happened and for refusing an offer you have no evidence he received. All you have is "it's very likely this type of conversation occurred."