Dez Bryant vs Devin McCourty

[patsfan-1982]

Congratulations. I will consult your comprehensive list next time I am giving my opinion on "DOSE" WR's and "THERE" stats.

to be fair you did rank him as the 2th best WR in the NFL being that you put him on a list im going to list WR's that are better then him, now if you would have just sad he's a good WR and the pats should have Drafted him. I then would have said Randy Moss was still on the team at the time and you cant have two bat ***** crazy WR's on your roster at the same time

 

[MassPats38]

No problems with the Pats' decision here.

Moss worked with the Pats because he was talented and smart. Bryant is talented, but clearly a village somewhere is missing their idiot when it comes to his brains. The Pats offense does not run playground receiver routes, and can probably not work well with a receiver that likely cannot remember his own jersey number.

And just a thought for those adamantly pressing 1400 yard seasons as indicative of success on the Pats, I give you 93 receptions for 1440 yards. Maybe the Pats should get that guy. In fact they did - Chad Johnson. Didn't really work out, will many plays in which the ball went to a spot on the field with no receiver in the area and an angry Tom Brady. And having heard Bryant's interviews, I believe Johnson is the smarter receiver.

 

[Rob0729]

One thing about Bryant's season last year, his numbers are skewed a bit by three great games. In the Cleveland, Washington, and Saints games; he had 514 yards (171.3 average) and 5 TDs (1.7 average). The rest of the season he had 868 yards (66.8 average) and 9 TDs (0.69 average). He had two games where he didn't even get 20 yards in the game.

So when you look at his season a bit closer, it isn't nearly as impressive as it looks as a whole. Yes, he has had flashes of being one of the most dominant WR in the league, but he has also had flashes of being a piece of crap WR too.

 

[condon84]

If we asked all the GMs, HCs, players, and football analysts who they would choose between Devin McCourty and Dez Bryant, I'm guessing that over 95% would choose Dez. And I'm being generous giving 5% to McCourty.

But here in Pats Fans FOrum, of course McCourty is a better player.

 

[Rob0729]

If we asked all the GMs, HCs, players, and football analysts who they would choose between Devin McCourty and Dez Bryant, I'm guessing that over 95% would choose Dez. And I'm being generous giving 5% to McCourty.

But here in Pats Fans FOrum, of course McCourty is a better player.

First, it isn't who is the better player, but who is the better fit. Bryant is a bad fit for the Pats' offense. He is a guy with a $100 million talent and a ten cent head. Smarter receivers have had trouble grasping the Patriots' offense. The guy is such a basket case that he actually had to impose a set of curfews and rules for himself and hire babysitters to make sure he adhere to these curfews and rules. This is a guy who is so out of control that he doesn't even trust himself.

Second, I don't think it is nearly the landslide that you think. I think there are plenty of GMs out there who wouldn't take Dez Bryant unless he was playing for the veteran minimum to make him easily cuttable because he is too much of a risk. Even then, there are probably GMs who wouldn't touch him. Even the Cowboys said last year, that if he screwed up one more time they would cut him. Bryant has only had one great year in three and has been more of a problem than he is worth for the other two. There is no guarantee he will reproduce the production of last year and no guarantee that he won't implode at any time.

From a pure talent basis, yes Bryant is better. But that isn't how you judge players. You need to look at system fit. You need to look at whether their personal life affects their on the field production. Bryant still has some red flags that rivals Hernandez's prior to him committing murder.

 

[condon84]

First, it isn't who is the better player, but who is the better fit. Bryant is a bad fit for the Pats' offense. He is a guy with a $100 million talent and a ten cent head. Smarter receivers have had trouble grasping the Patriots' offense. The guy is such a basket case that he actually had to impose a set of curfews and rules for himself and hire babysitters to make sure he adhere to these curfews and rules. This is a guy who is so out of control that he doesn't even trust himself.

Second, I don't think it is nearly the landslide that you think. I think there are plenty of GMs out there who wouldn't take Dez Bryant unless he was playing for the veteran minimum to make him easily cuttable because he is too much of a risk. Even then, there are probably GMs who wouldn't touch him. Even the Cowboys said last year, that if he screwed up one more time they would cut him. Bryant has only had one great year in three and has been more of a problem than he is worth for the other two. There is no guarantee he will reproduce the production of last year and no guarantee that he won't implode at any time.

From a pure talent basis, yes Bryant is better. But that isn't how you judge players. You need to look at system fit. You need to look at whether their personal life affects their on the field production. Bryant still has some red flags that rivals Hernandez's prior to him committing murder.

It always kills me when I hear the "he's not a good fit argument" when it comes to talented players who we pass on by mistake in the draft. It's like everyone's built in excuse when BB makes a mistake lol. $h!t happens. BB is still great. No one is denying that.

McCourty looks like he could be a good Safety and we need him back there, but looking back his rookie year at CB was a fluke. He's awful at CB. If he had developed into a legit shutdown CB, then I could see why GMs or BB would pick him over an elite WR. But McCourty is just a good safety. That's it. He's not Ed Reed or Polamalu. No one is gameplanning for McCourty at safety.

Listen, I'm sure if BB were to do it again in the draft, he'd pick Dez over McCourty. He's not a stupid guy.

 

[JackBauer]

First, it isn't who is the better player, but who is the better fit. Bryant is a bad fit for the Pats' offense. He is a guy with a $100 million talent and a ten cent head. Smarter receivers have had trouble grasping the Patriots' offense. The guy is such a basket case that he actually had to impose a set of curfews and rules for himself and hire babysitters to make sure he adhere to these curfews and rules. This is a guy who is so out of control that he doesn't even trust himself.

Second, I don't think it is nearly the landslide that you think. I think there are plenty of GMs out there who wouldn't take Dez Bryant unless he was playing for the veteran minimum to make him easily cuttable because he is too much of a risk. Even then, there are probably GMs who wouldn't touch him. Even the Cowboys said last year, that if he screwed up one more time they would cut him. Bryant has only had one great year in three and has been more of a problem than he is worth for the other two. There is no guarantee he will reproduce the production of last year and no guarantee that he won't implode at any time.

From a pure talent basis, yes Bryant is better. But that isn't how you judge players. You need to look at system fit. You need to look at whether their personal life affects their on the field production. Bryant still has some red flags that rivals Hernandez's prior to him committing murder.

This debate reminds me of CHFF's "shiny hood ornament" theory.

A CHFF theory elevated to Man Law

 

[Rob0729]

It always kills me when I hear the "he's not a good fit argument" when it comes to talented players who we pass on by mistake in the draft. It's like everyone's built in excuse when BB makes a mistake lol. $h!t happens. BB is still great. No one is denying that.

McCourty looks like he could be a good Safety and we need him back there, but looking back his rookie year at CB was a fluke. He's awful at CB. If he had developed into a legit shutdown CB, then I could see why GMs or BB would pick him over an elite WR. But McCourty is just a good safety. That's it. He's not Ed Reed or Polamalu. No one is gameplanning for McCourty at safety.

Listen, I'm sure if BB were to do it again in the draft, he'd pick Dez over McCourty. He's not a stupid guy.

Just because it kills you, it doesn't mean it isn't true. Do you think you could take Colin Kaepernick and plunk him into the Pats' offense where he has to be a pure pocket passer and stay in the pocket and he would succeed? Or how about the reverse? You think Brady would be successful if they lined him up in the pistol and ran an option offense? Scheme fit is a HUGE factor in selecting players. Not all players fit in all systems.

I also disagree he was an awful CB. He was pretty good at CB last year, but better as a safety. His second year was a fluke. He was not a good man CB (although much better than people gave him credit for), but he was an excellent zone CB.

If Belichick had to do it again, I have little doubt he would still pass on Bryant. I don't think Belichick would touch Bryant because of his lack of football smarts and off the field issues. You can argue he might have taken someone other than McCourty, but I tend to doubt it since he absolutely loves what McCourty brings to the table (hence why he makes him captain year after year).

 

[condon84]

Just because it kills you, it doesn't mean it isn't true. Do you think you could take Colin Kaepernick and plunk him into the Pats' offense where he has to be a pure pocket passer and stay in the pocket and he would succeed? Or how about the reverse? You think Brady would be successful if they lined him up in the pistol and ran an option offense? Scheme fit is a HUGE factor in selecting players. Not all players fit in all systems.

I also disagree he was an awful CB. He was pretty good at CB last year, but better as a safety. His second year was a fluke. He was not a good man CB (although much better than people gave him credit for), but he was an excellent zone CB.

If Belichick had to do it again, I have little doubt he would still pass on Bryant. I don't think Belichick would touch Bryant because of his lack of football smarts and off the field issues. You can argue he might have taken someone other than McCourty, but I tend to doubt it since he absolutely loves what McCourty brings to the table (hence why he makes him captain year after year).

How do you know he lacks football smarts? We've taken plenty of idiots in our team. Hernandez is the biggest of them all and he had red flags WAY worse than Dez. Hell, we have a guy who was arrested 7 times before he was 19 years old starting for us.

 

[patsinthesnow]

If we asked all the GMs, HCs, players, and football analysts who they would choose between Devin McCourty and Dez Bryant, I'm guessing that over 95% would choose Dez. And I'm being generous giving 5% to McCourty.

But here in Pats Fans FOrum, of course McCourty is a better player.

Maybe I'm a homer too, but I'm not sure it would be 95% to 5%.

It's essentially a top 10 Safety vs a top 10 WR, with both having top 1-5 potential. Dez was insane the 2nd half of the year, and McCourty was a great safety his first year at the position. The ceiling's are high for both of them.

When you throw in McCourty is a defensive leader/captain/great locker room guy, and Dez isn't one (putting it lightly), its not a clear cut choice.

 

[Nunchucks]

How do you know he lacks football smarts? We've taken plenty of idiots in our team. Hernandez is the biggest of them all and he had red flags WAY worse than Dez. Hell, we have a guy who was arrested 7 times before he was 19 years old starting for us.

First, Hernandez was a smart football player and taken in the 4th round.
Second, Thompkins is was a URFA, not a first round pick.

You need to compare apples to apples.

Bryant is an emotional mess, have you not been reading about him and his constant issues with authority, partying, etc?

You wonder why Romo has so much trouble? It might be because Dex Bryant keeps on running the wrong routes, etc.

Again, Bryant is phenomenal when he shows up to play and runs the right routes, but he is too inconsistent, and he has had too many off the field problems for me to consider passing on him for McCourty as a mistake.

 

[condon84]

First, Hernandez was a smart football player and taken in the 4th round.
Second, Thompkins is was a URFA, not a first round pick.

You need to compare apples to apples.

Bryant is an emotional mess, have you not been reading about him and his constant issues with authority, partying, etc?

You wonder why Romo has so much trouble? It might be because Dex Bryant keeps on running the wrong routes, etc.

Again, Bryant is phenomenal when he shows up to play and runs the right routes, but he is too inconsistent, and he has had too many off the field problems for me to consider passing on him for McCourty as a mistake.

Romo has been throwing INTs well before Dez joined the COwboys.

And I don't subscribe to the idea that all the players we draft are smarter than the players we pass up. Our scouts/FO may think they're drafting smarter players, but who's to say their judgement is always correct? They've made their share of mistakes.

Dez has adjusted fairly well and seems to know what he's doing out there. How do you really know Dez' capacity to learn a playbook is inferior to the WRs we bring in? We don't know. But what we can judge on is their performance on the field.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with McCourty at a safety. He does his job and isn't a liability like he was when he played CB. But given the choice to redo, it's Dez over McCourty every time.

 

[Salva135]

Wow, some people are overdosing on the red kool-aid in here. Dez Bryant is a top-10 WR and top-5 WR asset if you take into account his production and the fact that he's only 24. I can't believe that some people on this board complain that this team can't seem to find a physical outside WR who could add a missing dimension that would be critical for the playoffs, and say that Dez wouldn't be all that helpful to the team. He'd be far from a "shiny hood ornament," he'd be a central component of our offense.

McCourty has worked out well with his transition to safety, but he's getting massively overrated and Dez is being massively underrated. As someone mentioned above, at least 95% of NFL GMs would snap-take Dez over McCourty. I'm fine with the way things worked out, but there's no need to slam one of the best young WRs in the game in order to justify the Pats' draft decision.

 

[JackBauer]

Wow, some people are overdosing on the red kool-aid in here. Dez Bryant is a top-10 WR and top-5 WR asset if you take into account his production and the fact that he's only 24. I can't believe that some people on this board complain that this team can't seem to find a physical outside WR who could add a missing dimension that would be critical for the playoffs, and say that Dez wouldn't be all that helpful to the team. He'd be far from a "shiny hood ornament," he'd be a central component of our offense.

McCourty has worked out well with his transition to safety, but he's getting massively overrated and Dez is being massively underrated. As someone mentioned above, at least 95% of NFL GMs would snap-take Dez over McCourty. I'm fine with the way things worked out, but there's no need to slam one of the best young WRs in the game in order to justify the Pats' draft decision.

No one is saying that Dez Bryant wouldn't be helpful to the team. Come on.

But given that elite safeties are probably more rare than elite wide receivers, the wildly overestimated impact elite wide receivers have on team success, and considering the other intangibles/peripheral issues that work in McCourty's favor vis a vis Bryant, it's hardly outlandish at all to say McCourty would be the pick if the draft were held again today.

 

[AzorianPats]

Honestly, I don't see the need to bash either player. Both have proven to be good picks for their teams. Plus they play 2 different positions, so its like comparing apples to oranges. With that I'm glad we got McCourty, but I think at this point Bryant an elite WR...I dunno if we can say that about DMAC....Yet.

 

[condon84]

Honestly, I don't see the need to bash either player. Both have proven to be good picks for their teams. Plus they play 2 different positions, so its like comparing apples to oranges. With that I'm glad we got McCourty, but I think at this point Bryant an elite WR...I dunno if we can say that about DMAC....Yet.

This is a fair assessment. McCourty could become an elite safety. And if that were to happen he'd be far more helpful to our team than Dez could have been.

 

[Rob0729]

How do you know he lacks football smarts? We've taken plenty of idiots in our team. Hernandez is the biggest of them all and he had red flags WAY worse than Dez. Hell, we have a guy who was arrested 7 times before he was 19 years old starting for us.

First, one the biggest knock on Bryant come out of college was his intelligence. So we know he doesn't have the football smarts.

Second, Bryant had major red flags coming out of college from his prostitute mother who went to jail for selling crack cocaine to him bouncing around from foster home to foster home. He has since coming into league been accused of stealing $900k worth of jewerly and been charged with domestic battery (charges dropped).

Third, Kembrell Thompkins from all account has turned his life around. He is 25 now and hasn't been arrested in 6 years. If he was a typical rookie coming out of school at age 20 or 21, that would be more of an issue. But Thompkins has shown that he has turned his life around over the last six years.

 

[Sicilian]

It's hard to compare two different players, at two different positions (on opposite sides of the ball no less), on two different teams that play very different systems. That said, I'll always prefer a good safety over a good wide receiver. I just think they have more impact on a game and I'm a defense first kinda guy.

This is of course assuming relatively equal situations. If I already had two pro bowl safeties and no good wide receivers, I'd prefer the WR.

 

[condon84]

First, one the biggest knock on Bryant come out of college was his intelligence. So we know he doesn't have the football smarts.

Second, Bryant had major red flags coming out of college from his prostitute mother who went to jail for selling crack cocaine to him bouncing around from foster home to foster home. He has since coming into league been accused of stealing $900k worth of jewerly and been charged with domestic battery (charges dropped).

Third, Kembrell Thompkins from all account has turned his life around. He is 25 now and hasn't been arrested in 6 years. If he was a typical rookie coming out of school at age 20 or 21, that would be more of an issue. But Thompkins has shown that he has turned his life around over the last six years.

I don't know if it was his intelligence but more so his lack of judgement. He was a knucklehead.

Whatever the case may be, I understood why they passed on him then. But given that we're talking about the here and now, I can't justify why I would pick McCourty over Dez today given their development to the players they are today.

 

[Rob0729]

Honestly, I don't see the need to bash either player. Both have proven to be good picks for their teams. Plus they play 2 different positions, so its like comparing apples to oranges. With that I'm glad we got McCourty, but I think at this point Bryant an elite WR...I dunno if we can say that about DMAC....Yet.

I am not really trying to bash Bryant. Just highlighting his issues to counter the argument that it is a slam dunk that Bryant would have been a better pick.

And one year does not make Bryant an elite WR especially when he had some stat padding games. He had an elite year last year, but he has to string together two or three years of that type of production to say he is elite. Before last year, even the Cowboys were second guessing whether he was worth the trouble giving him a zero tolerance ultimatum. I mean McCourty had an elite CB year his rookie year and never repeated it.