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Dez Bryant vs Devin McCourty

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by NG Pats Fan, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan On the Game Day Roster

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    3 years later...who would you rather have on our team? I remember screaming at the TV when we passed up on Dez in the 2010 NFL draft. I knew he would be a star.

    Can you imagine if we had drafted Dez along with Gronk and Hernandez :eek: That would be one of the greatest offensive drafts of all time

    As valuable as McCourty is to the Patriots, Dez is a rare breed in the NFL. He is a star, and would instantly make the patriots a much better team.
     
  2. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

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    Brady would have stopped throwing to him after a week and we'd have cut or traded him by 2011.
     
  3. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    To date, Devin McCourty has been a better player than Dez Bryant in the NFL. That may change in the coming seasons, but a fully fit McCourty is more important to the Patriots than Dez Bryant. Therefore, Devin McCourty.
     
  4. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Over the past 3 years, I would rather have had McCourty.
     
  5. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    When you "screamed at the TV" were you aware of the fact that Oklahoma State had routinely dumbed down their scheme and plays just so Bryant could understand them enough to even run the proper routes?

    A player like that would seem to be a pretty bad fit for a complex offense where everyone has to be responsible for every play on every single snap.

    Bryant may get away looking like a good pick on a backyard scheme like the Dallas Cowboys, Pittsburgh Steelers, or Baltimore Ravens, but that doesn't mean that he'd have been a good fit here. There have been a ton of wide receivers who were proven that couldn't pick up on the system in place here, while eventually failing miserably.
     
  6. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan On the Game Day Roster

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    Is this a joke? Dez Bryant had 1400 receiving yards and 12 TDs last year, he is one of the best in the NFL. Dez is a pro bowler. McCourty has been so sub par, he's been demoted from CB and picked on the last 2 years.
     
  7. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    With another successful season Devin McCourty is going to be considered a pretty decent secondary player around the league, especially with his versatility to play both CB/S.

    He's also the kind of proven leader/4 yr starter that has parlayed his opportunity into a captain's role which equates to a very nice 2nd term pact here in NE.
     
  8. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    ???

    "demoted"

    "picked on"

    He's already one of the top 10 FS players in the entire NFL as it is, and helped to solidify the weakest spot on the team 2 yrs in a row on their way to both the AFCCG and the SB.
     
  9. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan On the Game Day Roster

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    None of our WRs outside of a 2007 Randy Moss even come close to the talent level of a Dez Bryant. He is one of the most talented, productive WRs to come out in years. When you watch him on tape, he is so unbelievably talented, players like him don't come along very often. 1400 yards and 12 tds last year. Dez would thrive under Tom, in fact Dez would thrive under any QB.
     
  10. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan On the Game Day Roster

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    I believe he went from our first string CB in 2010 to a backup by week 10 in 2011, then moved to safety because he was giving up so many Tds and deep balls. Yes McCourty was being picked on a lot in 2011 and some of 2012.
     
  11. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan On the Game Day Roster

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    Even if that is true(which is still not proven), Dez is easily a top 5 WR in the NFL and will be for years to come.
     
  12. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Belichick installed the quicker timing system and 2 TE set which took advantage of personnel mismatches when Moss left to help hide some weaknesses, while taking advantage of certain strengths.

    I'm not convinced that the offensive line, TE's, nor WR's would have looked as good if they dropped back and slung long bombs on every play. Hell, I'm not even sure Brady would still be around. It's an unknown at this point. I do agree with you that Bryant used his great yr last season to jump into one of the top 5 WRs in the game, so I understand your point there.

    He was a probowler in his first year in 2010, that's not questionable. In 2011 he had a pretty bad year, but thrived down the stretch run. In 2012 he was pretty solid at both positions.

    I fail to see how McCourty isn't one of the best 10 FS's in the game, and how his play at safety didn't help to solidify the secondary into a much stronger unit on their way to back to back AFCCG appearances in the past two years?

    As far as Bryant's talent--sure, his play last season turned him from a big questionmark into one of the better WRs in the game, but let's wait and see if that continues as he certainly wasn't viewed that way one year ago today.

    Even if he does continue to thrive in DAL's system, it's hard to project if he'd have been able to do the same here.
     
  13. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    Considering offense has not been an issue since we became like the colts since 2007, not sure how much better he wouldve made us.
     
  14. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I understand the OP's thoughts and I think that we could have discussions like this about any number of players every day.

    We also have to take into account the team, situation, scheme, etc into the equation too--and that probably makes a lot of these exercises hard to predict.

    Bryant jumped up nicely in the WR groupings with a strong 2012 season, but I'm not fully convinced that he's a totally different person just yet. I think it'll take another season where he matches his 2012 production.
     
  15. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady In the Starting Line-Up

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    Keep repeating yourself about last year's numbers, and maybe someone will fall for your theory, right?

    I'm glad that you've pointed out to us that Dez Bryant is a talented player. It's not like that fact hasn't been constantly discussed for the last four years, including the months leading up to the draft. Yet 26 teams passed on this once-in-a-generation player.

    Where you really sound foolish is in thinking that "Dez would thrive under Tom," as this is where I suspect you don't really know much about the situation and are basing your argument off of a player card with stats only. I take it you don't watch the games or follow the Cowboys, because there has been extreme criticism of Bryant for his mental lapses, lack of intelligence in reading a defense, and sometimes lack of effort. In addition, he's already had some off-field drama and is predictably coddled by the Cowboys. He is very immature- the type of guy who will undoubtedly be bankrupt within a few years and not entirely dedicated to his craft. But yes, please go ahead and think that Bryant would not have been a horrible disaster with the Patriots organization and Tom Brady's expectations. Because we all know that Tom works best with players with get by only with their athleticism, like to freelance, don't really prepare for games, and don't care much for opponent-particular schemes.

    I think McCourty was an excellent draft pick in the late first round and has exceeded expectations. He is also an excellent community guy, a leader on and off the field, and plays whatever role helps the team win. I'm really hoping the Patriots lock him up to a long-term extension. I have no doubt that the Patriots made the right decision for this team, and Bryant has demonstrated in the last three years all of the pros and cons of drafting him. Maybe for the Cowboys organization, which is used to Bryant-types of players and have goals other than winning and crave individual superstars (whether they fit into the puzzle or not), Bryant was a good pick. It's possible that both teams got what they wanted.
     
  16. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady In the Starting Line-Up

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    According to Football Outsiders, McCourty might be the best FS in the NFL. He has the lowest QB rating allowed on balls thrown into his coverage, and it wasn't even close. Over the last three years, I believe he is second in the NFL in interceptions for balls that are thrown over 15 yards down field. Just because his reputation and media hype isn't there doesn't mean he isn't an outstanding player. I can almost guarantee you that Belichick thinks he's the future of our defense and would likely rank him second only to Wilfork in terms of most valuable defenders. McCourty rarely misses a snap- ever.

    Dez is easily a top 5 WR in the NFL? He's now had one season where he's topped 1,000 yards, and you are putting him in Canton. Do you realize how many players each decade have a season where they get 100-1400 yards and then fall off the map? Stop acting like this feat alone proves everything. I've already covered the bad route running and mental lapses (Tony Romo has fought with him on the sidelines on multiple occasions.) Of course, the stats that you keep mentioning- yards and TDs do not account for the number of INTs and negative plays that a player like this accounts for as well.

    Even still, to say he is easily a top-5 as if it's not debateable and in the same sentence say that it hasn't been proven that McCourty is top-10, that is contradictory nonsense and you know it.

    Calvin Johnson
    AJ Green
    Julio Jones
    Roddy White
    Demaryius Thomas
    Dwayne Bowe
    Larry Fitzgerald
    Andre Johnson
    Brandon Marshall
    Percy Harvin
    Mike Wallace
    Reggie Wayne
    Steve Smith
    Hakeem Nicks
    Vincent Jackson

    Hey, I'm sure that with his one good season, Dez Bryant is easily a top-5 receiver, right? Even at his best, he finished sixth in yards. Twenty receivers in the NFL finished with over 1000 yards. People overrate receivers in general, but you are really overrating Dez Bryant. He has talent, but it's not on the level of Johnson or Green. He's a member of that second group of about a dozen players with similar talent.
     
  17. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    Imagine if we picked bryant our boston mediots will have a field day with 'character issues' stuff with pats :).
     
  18. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    No. I'm not seduced by the prognostications of media scribes.

    McCourty has done more for New England than Bryant has done for Dallas.
     
  19. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    ....and the final nail in the coffin to this "debate" is the positions they play. The fact is, that despite the media hype and fan obsession, a top WR is NOT as valuable to a team than a top DB. Just look at the list Ice Ice put out on receivers that are better than Bryant. Most of them cannot effect a team's success as much as a top S. The best examples of that are Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson. Those are the 2 best WR's in the game, yet both play on sub par teams

    This is why BB has never drafted a WR in the first round, and has succeeded with very few WRs who would be considered elite. WR is the most easily replaceable position in the league and BB is going to prove it again this season, by completely replacing the 3rd best passing attack's WR corp with an 3 rookies and a 5th year FA. Does anyone doubt that even with the losses of Welker, Lloyd, Hernandez, and Woodhead, that the Pats are STILL going to have a top 10 passing attack? I didn't think so.

    Just look at the reality - Josh Boyce - a great combination of speed, hands, and quickness. Not big but physical. Best NFL comparison would be Steve Smith, yet there he was available in the 4th round,. and by all accounts was neither a reach OR steal.

    Look at Tompkins - an UDFA who looks like he might be a upgrade on Lloyd already.

    The point is that just about EVERY team as at least one story like this. WR's are everywhere, every year, and there are good ones to be found all through the draft....and after

    Not to say that a great WR isn't an asset, but its a lot harder to find an elite S, LT, QB, DLman, than it is an elite WR
     
  20. BritPat

    BritPat In the Starting Line-Up

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    #54 Jersey

    "Shiny hood ornaments".

    Even PFF have realised how good McCourty is as well.

    Eventually some of our fans who seem to think that Jerry Jones gets it right each year, will realise it too.
     

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