Defense wins championships...well Pass Rush does

[Deus Irae]

.................

As I said, I was not changing the subject. Thanks for verifying it.

 

[iapatsfan]

Oh, just a note on that fabulous Steelers development crew:



They cut Harrison 3 times in 2 years. It's not as if they were committed to the cause from day one with him. The Ravens, another linebacker-based team, also cut him. Yes, lets point to him as proof of the superiority of the Steelers way.

That probably has a lot more to do with the talent these teams had at LB at the time. In my opinion that says a lot about their ability to fill a team with quality LBs, while we're stuck with Pierre frickin Woods, Crable and Redd.

 

[RayClay]

Oh, just a note on that fabulous Steelers development crew:



They cut Harrison 3 times in 2 years.

Because it was tough to crack that lineup. Vrabel couldn't either.

By contrast, we have at least 4 UDFA that might easily make this team.

 

[Deus Irae]

That probably has a lot more to do with the talent these teams had at LB at the time. In my opinion that says a lot about their ability to fill a team with quality LBs, while we're stuck with Pierre frickin Woods, Crable and Redd.

I don't see how it does that, given how long it took him to establish himself. They had guys like Clint C. Kriewaldt on the roster, after all.

What is says a lot about is the ridiculous nature of far too many Patriot fans who've gotten so ridiculously spoiled.

 

[Deus Irae]

Because it was tough to crack that lineup. Vrabel couldn't either.

By contrast, we have at least 4 UDFA that might easily make this team.

Yep..... Clint C. Kriewaldt

Tough nut to crack.

 

[RayClay]

Yep..... Clint C. Kriewaldt

Tough nut to crack.

He had a 9 year NFL career.

You think Redd Crable Woods and Guyton will?

 

[Deus Irae]

He had a 9 year NFL career.

You think Redd Crable Woods and Guyton will?

I don't know. I'm just wondering how the Steelers' brilliant crew chose that career special team player over Harrison if they are so much better at the linebacker thing than the Patriots are. Was Clint the #1 overall pick of the draft by some chance?

 

[livinginthe past]

Pittsburgh has better LBers than us.

Pittsburgh drafts LBers better than us.

We do not, I repeat..DO NOT...have to be the best in EVERY area to win a Superbowl.

Pittsburgh has a very weak O-line and its WR's are nothing to write home about.

This is how the NFL works - if it were possible to have 5 or 6 1st round draft picks every year then maybe we would be elite in every area.

Dominate with your strenghts and cover your weaknesses - thats the name of the game in this era.

 

[RayClay]

I don't know. I'm just wondering how the Steelers' brilliant crew chose that career special team player over Harrison if they are so much better at the linebacker thing than the Patriots are. Was Clint the #1 overall pick of the draft by some chance?

Maybe to play special teams?

 

[RayClay]

Pittsburgh has better LBers than us.

Pittsburgh drafts LBers better than us.

We do not, I repeat..DO NOT...have to be the best in EVERY area to win a Superbowl.

Pittsburgh has a very weak O-line and its WR's are nothing to write home about.

This is how the NFL works - if it were possible to have 5 or 6 1st round draft picks every year then maybe we would be elite in every area.

Dominate with your strenghts and cover your weaknesses - thats the name of the game in this era.

I agree 100%. I'd like to see some attempt at improving the LB situation. We don't even need to be near as good as our own team when Parcells picks and Vrabel were in their prime.

 

[Deus Irae]

Maybe to play special teams?

No, that can't be it. You've assured me that the linebackers were competing against #1 picks and Gods from other teams.

 

[BradyFTW!]

He had a 9 year NFL career.

You think Redd Crable Woods and Guyton will?

So what? Eric Alexander has had a 6 year NFL career, which could easily go to/past nine. Doesn't make him a good LB. And yes, I could easily see any of the guys you mentioned having nine year careers. They all have a lot of potential, and Woods and Guyton have already proven themselves to be capable players. I doubt they all will, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if one, two, three, or all four of them do.

There are opposite extremes at work here. On one hand, you don't want to be too quick to anoint guys, I get that. A couple years ago, we all thought Eugene Wilson would be captaining our secondary for the next decade. OTOH, the opposite extreme is just as irrational. The only way to build a nucleus of homegrown talent, which the Pats absolutely rely on, is to give them opportunities to step up. That's what the Pats' draftees have always done in the past, and it looks like they may be getting a chance to do it at OLB this year. I, for one, am looking forward to it.

IMO the real issue is that Pats fans are such chicken littles that they freak the hell out because we only have two Pro Bowlers in our LB corps. It's ridiculous and stupid.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I agree 100%. I'd like to see some attempt at improving the LB situation. We don't even need to be near as good as our own team when Parcells picks and Vrabel were in their prime.

Quick question: how many times have you seen Crable and Redd play?

You haven't. You have no idea if they're any good or not, so by extension you have absolutely no idea whatsoever whether the LB situation is being improved or not. Which is fine, in of itself, since there's no way that you could. But did it ever occur to you that, just maybe, Belichick hasn't just decided to go into the year with a crap LB corps? Maybe he's actually seen something from these guys. All of these guys that you're clamoring for now were unknowns before they were given a chance to step in and make an impact. Last year, everyone was freaking out about ILB depth, but Guyton and Mayo stepped in and established themselves. At OLB, we have two established starters (Woods flat-out earned the job last year- dunno what you guys were watching that made you think he's a JAG) and two guys who may very well be able to step in and establish themselves the same way.

This is how football teams are built in the real world. I don't know what fantasy land you guys are living in where every position gets magically filled by an established pro bowl-caliber veteran (but not *too* old because as soon as you hit 32, everyone here writes you off for being on the decline, like Adalius apparently is), but that doesn't exist. No team does that.

 

[mayoclinic]

Pittsburgh has better LBers than us.

Pittsburgh drafts LBers better than us.

We do not, I repeat..DO NOT...have to be the best in EVERY area to win a Superbowl.

Pittsburgh has a very weak O-line and its WR's are nothing to write home about.

This is how the NFL works - if it were possible to have 5 or 6 1st round draft picks every year then maybe we would be elite in every area.

Dominate with your strenghts and cover your weaknesses - thats the name of the game in this era.

Pittsburgh and Baltimore emphasize the LB position more than the Pats. With that said, I'll take Mayo over anyone that Pittsburgh as at ILB, and I'll take Thomas over Lamarr Woodley at OLB. I personally think that Lawrence Timmons hasn't shown me that he will be superior to Gary Guyton in the long run at ILB. James Harrison is clearly a beast in the Steeler's system right now, but he's 30 already and I don't think he would have the same impact in the Pats system.

I'll give Pittsburgh the edge for the LB corps right now. In 2 years it may be totally different. I'll give the Pats a big edge at DL. I think the Pats secondary is overall deeper and stronger than Pittsburgh's, but Troy Polamalu is the best player on either defense IMHO, notwithstanding Harrison's DPOY award last year.

 

[RayClay]

So what? Eric Alexander has had a 6 year NFL career, which could easily go to/past nine.

It was a stupid joke. He tried to find the worst LB on Pittsburgh and he came up with a nine year veteran. I agree on most teams Alexander would have been cut long ago.

 

[RayClay]

Quick question: how many times have you seen Crable and Redd play?

You haven't. You have no idea if they're any good or not, so by extension you have absolutely no idea whatsoever whether the LB situation is being improved or not. Which is fine, in of itself, since there's no way that you could. But did it ever occur to you that, just maybe, Belichick hasn't just decided to go into the year with a crap LB corps? Maybe he's actually seen something from these guys. All of these guys that you're clamoring for now were unknowns before they were given a chance to step in and make an impact. Last year, everyone was freaking out about ILB depth, but Guyton and Mayo stepped in and established themselves. At OLB, we have two established starters (Woods flat-out earned the job last year- dunno what you guys were watching that made you think he's a JAG) and two guys who may very well be able to step in and establish themselves the same way.

This is how football teams are built in the real world. I don't know what fantasy land you guys are living in where every position gets magically filled by an established pro bowl-caliber veteran (but not *too* old because as soon as you hit 32, everyone here writes you off for being on the decline, like Adalius apparently is), but that doesn't exist. No team does that.

You argue poorly.

Everyone that's not an established pro Bowl veteran, is not an undrafted free agent.

Why are we eliminating 90% of NFL players?

Rod Smith was a great player. He was an undrafted free agent. Therefore all undrafted free agents will be great players.

Great debating logic.

 

[RayClay]

So what? Eric Alexander has had a 6 year NFL career, which could easily go to/past nine. Doesn't make him a good LB. And yes, I could easily see any of the guys you mentioned having nine year careers. They all have a lot of potential, and Woods and Guyton have already proven themselves to be capable players. I doubt they all will, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if one, two, three, or all four of them do.

There are opposite extremes at work here. On one hand, you don't want to be too quick to anoint guys, I get that. A couple years ago, we all thought Eugene Wilson would be captaining our secondary for the next decade. OTOH, the opposite extreme is just as irrational. The only way to build a nucleus of homegrown talent, which the Pats absolutely rely on, is to give them opportunities to step up. That's what the Pats' draftees have always done in the past, and it looks like they may be getting a chance to do it at OLB this year. I, for one, am looking forward to it.

IMO the real issue is that Pats fans are such chicken littles that they freak the hell out because we only have two Pro Bowlers in our LB corps. It's ridiculous and stupid.

Look, I'm glad you're thrilled with our linebacker situation. I'm not. I've seen Crable, he jumps well and has skinny legs. you've seen him more than me? Redd played a little on special teams.

I actually like Crable,. If he works hard and hits the weights, I think he might be a good starting OLB in a couple years.

It's possible we could get top starters that were overlooked by every team including us multiple times. Maybe they'll follow Pitts Harrison and become starters after five years, when A.D. is 37.

Again, if you think we have the best LB corps we can afford, that's great.

 

[Deus Irae]

Look, I'm glad you're thrilled with our linebacker situation. I'm not. I've seen Crable, he jumps well and has skinny legs. you've seen him more than me? Redd played a little on special teams.

It's possible we could get top starters that were overlooked by every team including us multiple times. Maybe they'll follow Pitts Harrison and become starters after five years, when A.D. is 37.

Again, if you think we have the best LB corps we can afford, that's great.

You do realize that you've already conceded most of this argument, knowingly or unknowingly, have had the parts you haven't conceded complete discredited and are just pissing and moaning like NEM and Maverick about the O.C. du jour, right?

 

[RayClay]

You do realize that you've already conceded most of this argument, knowingly or unknowingly, have had the parts you haven't conceded complete discredited and are just pissing and moaning like NEM and Maverick about the O.C. du jour, right?

When you can't make a single point, you always say you won, while still not proving a single thing.

It's an amusing tactic.

It hasn't turned any of the Jags we have to depend on, into players one could reasonably expect to compete as full time starters in the NFL, however.

 

[patsfan-1982]

look we can sit here and talk about this till we turn blue in the face

#1 why dont we trade seymour wilfork and next year's draft for peppers


#2 why didn't we put a gun to jason taylor's head and make him sign


#3 why didn't we draft a first round LB even if he dose not fit the system


we have 2 all pro LB if he cant find 2 more starter's he will mix in the 4-3 some more or mix in a 3 safety package BB will get it done he has not won 5 ring's as a HC and a DC for noting he know's what he's doing