Darren McFadden to Vist Patriots

[Kontradiction]

Actually, the argument isn't empty. As of now, McFadden has Seven child support payments he has to make every month. Players with large outstanding financial obligations tend to hold out for the most money possible and demand renegotiations when things are going well. Especially since paternity judges tend to apply the standard of "How much can you afford to pay", and not "How much is a fair amount with which this child can be raised"

I would also argue a difference between a man who fathers a child with a woman he's been in a relationship with for several years and a man who fathers at least seven children with seven different women in a two-year span. But such arguments might make me a racist, so I won't make them here.

Between that and the bar fights, I'm not sure McFadden's judgement is any better than Pac Man's.

Yeah, you're a raging racist. How dare you speak the truth!

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I wasn't arguing against you're point, but actually attempting to back it by pointing to Dean's saying they see Meriweather as a Safety first.

I didn't think you were. Sorry if I seemed to be attacking.

 

[primetime]

I would also argue a difference between a man who fathers a child with a woman he's been in a relationship with for several years and a man who fathers at least seven children with seven different women in a two-year span. But such arguments might make me a racist, so I won't make them here.

Between that and the bar fights, I'm not sure McFadden's judgement is any better than Pac Man's.

McFadden's been in a couple bar fights and has two kids that are definitely his, three if he loses a paternity suit. Pacman got someone killed. I'm not sure how you can compare their judgment skills.

For what it's worth, Derrick Thomas had quite a few illegitimate kids of his own (7 with 5 women), and Santonio Holmes has a couple running around right now (similar to McFadden, 3 with 2 women). Willis McGahee had 3 illegitimate kids with 2 women within his first two seasons. Chad Johnson has 3.

None of those players have seen their play dip because of the fact they've had children.

By the way, Larry Bird had a illegitimate child.

 

[DaBruinz]

Tom Brady has a child and is not married, as well. But it's fine to criticize McFadden for it because, you know, he's black.

He'll have enough money to pay for them. The number of children he has fathered has no bearing on his ability to carry a football and run quickly. Give it up.

Note that this does not mean I want McFadden (I don't think a 1st round RB is ever worth it). But you should realize that argument doesn't really work.

WOW... What a huge jump you made there going from him making fun of McFadden not being able to keep it in his pants to RACISM.

Do you always play the victim card in a situation like this?

 

[primetime]

Do you always play the victim card in a situation like this?

Victim card?

The double standard is what's alarming. More in the media than on the board, the fact that he has a couple kids wouldn't have even been brought up if he was white. And yes, it goes both ways... ESPN ranked Wes Welker #24 in wide receivers yesterday, but he likely would've been ranked in the top 10 if he was black.

Tom Brady had a child outside of marriage but was defended tooth and nail on this board. And yes, I was one one of the people defending him. I don't think it's a big deal that McFadden has illegitimate kids because he's just a football player. I also don't think (most) football players are saints or geniuses on any level, no matter the color of their skin, and I certainly don't consider any of them role models. The question is whether McFadden's illegitimate children make him any less of an ultra-talented football player who would be a valuable addition to the Patriots, and I'd say that similar character questions hounded Santonio Holmes and he's been a model citizen and good player for the Steelers.

All this and I don't want the Patriots anywhere near McFadden. But the reason isn't because he has a couple bastard children rolling around, it's because taking a running back in the 1st round is a bad idea. Especially if you just took one a couple years ago and he's showing flashes of stardom and is certainly more than adequate. And also especially if your team has more holes that need to be filled urgently elsewhere.

 

[DaBruinz]

Victim card?

The double standard is what's alarming. More in the media than on the board, the fact that he has a couple kids wouldn't have even been brought up if he was white. And yes, it goes both ways... ESPN ranked Wes Welker #24 in wide receivers yesterday, but he likely would've been ranked in the top 10 if he was black.

There is NO double standard. Just because YOU can't comprehend that doesn't mean that the rest of of are that ignorant.

What you can't comprehend is the difference in the Situation as it was CLEARLY explained.

Brady - Was with Bridget for 2-3 years. Has ONE child and is MORE than capable of supporting that child.

McFadden - Has 3 (and possible MORE) children and has NO MEANS of supporting those kids currently.

Do you comprehend the difference NOW?

Tom Brady had a child outside of marriage but was defended tooth and nail on this board. And yes, I was one one of the people defending him. I don't think it's a big deal that McFadden has illegitimate kids because he's just a football player. I also don't think (most) football players are saints or geniuses on any level, no matter the color of their skin, and I certainly don't consider any of them role models. The question is whether McFadden's illegitimate children make him any less of an ultra-talented football player who would be a valuable addition to the Patriots, and I'd say that similar character questions hounded Santonio Holmes and he's been a model citizen and good player for the Steelers.

Different situations and its only your FRIGGIN ignorance that brought up the race card. And there HAVE been "WHITE" players in previous years who have had the whole kid issue brought up prior to the draft. So its BOGUS on your part.

Tom Brady was "defended tooth and nail" because he was willing to do what is RIGHT and not have to be taken to court for support (ala McFadden).

McFadden really ISN'T that talented. He's good, but not ELITE. Sorry.

Also, there are significantly MORE issues with McFadden than there was with Holmes. But who cares. Holmes was villified also. Again. It had NOTHING to do with his skin color.

All this and I don't want the Patriots anywhere near McFadden. But the reason isn't because he has a couple bastard children rolling around, it's because taking a running back in the 1st round is a bad idea. Especially if you just took one a couple years ago and he's showing flashes of stardom and is certainly more than adequate. And also especially if your team has more holes that need to be filled urgently elsewhere.

No one said you DID want McFadden. So why do you harp on it.

The FACT is that you are the one who brought RACE into the conversation (hence the "victim card" I mentioned).

 

[primetime]

McFadden - Has 3 (and possible MORE) children and has NO MEANS of supporting those kids currently.

...

McFadden really ISN'T that talented. He's good, but not ELITE. Sorry.

...

Also, there are significantly MORE issues with McFadden than there was with Holmes. But who cares. Holmes was villified also. Again. It had NOTHING to do with his skin color.

Relax chief. You seem extremely upset over the implication; closet guilt, perhaps? McFadden has no way of supporting those children currently but will be making millions of dollars over the next few years as he will be a top-10, maybe 15 selection in the NFL draft. We're not talking about a man who will be poor here. As for his talent level, I'm glad you can say that with due certainty before he has even played a down in the NFL. And I don't see McFadden having more character questions than Holmes. Like Holmes, he has a history of illegitimate children. Both were also in barfights in college. They actually have very similar histories.

Tom Brady was defended tooth and nail because he was a Patriot, not because of how right or wrong he was. If you think skin color plays no role in opinions, I have centuries of history that can prove you wrong. But now that's neither here nor there. My race comment was a throwaway comment, a joke as you will in response to another joke and hardly directed at the original poster. Trying to jump down my throat for it is pretty funny. God I love these boards sometimes.

 

[dryheat44]

McFadden's been in a couple bar fights and has two kids that are definitely his, three if he loses a paternity suit. Pacman got someone killed. I'm not sure how you can compare their judgment skills.

For what it's worth, Derrick Thomas had quite a few illegitimate kids of his own (7 with 5 women), and Santonio Holmes has a couple running around right now (similar to McFadden, 3 with 2 women). Willis McGahee had 3 illegitimate kids with 2 women within his first two seasons. Chad Johnson has 3.

None of those players have seen their play dip because of the fact they've had children.

By the way, Larry Bird had a illegitimate child.

Well, what I read was that McFadden has seven children, with one more test to go. But that's besides the point.

The point isn't he's a bad person. The point is that between the baffling continuing of fathering children and repeated bar fights that could cost him millions of dollars if he slides because of it, his judgment is called into question. Because he's going to owe hundreds of thousands of dollars every year in child support payment makes him much more likely to hold out of camp, demand new contracts, demand to be traded, etc.

I'm aware that Tom Brady, Larry Bird, and my own father have had illegitimate children. That's not the point.

 

[BradyToMoss]

Well, what I read was that McFadden has seven children, with one more test to go. But that's besides the point.

The point isn't he's a bad person. The point is that between the baffling continuing of fathering children and repeated bar fights that could cost him millions of dollars if he slides because of it, his judgment is called into question. Because he's going to owe hundreds of thousands of dollars every year in child support payment makes him much more likely to hold out of camp, demand new contracts, demand to be traded, etc.

I'm aware that Tom Brady, Larry Bird, and my own father have had illegitimate children. That's not the point.

Dryheat, with this said, let us not forget about these prior greats:

Dave Meggett, Shawn Kemp and alot, and I mean alot of tall humans walking the earth with the last name Chamberlain, which again as you said is not the point, not bad people, just a tad irresponsible. As BB says, "It is what it is". IF McFathersDay goes out and performs on Sundays for the next 10 years, no one will remotely care about anything else except what he's doing on the football field, if what he's doing on that field is what he's projected to do.

On a side note Dryheat, DRC is wonderin what he has to show you or do for you to climb your draft board. As Mel said, put a Michigan/SC or OSU helmet on his head and evaluate him then.

 

[sebman2112]

It's not the children, but the overall build up of bad decisions. Also, what worries me a little more is that he claimed to be a changed person after his first bar fight, then got into another very similar fight/altercation, and recently repeated that same "I'm a changed person" line.

Who knows, maybe he's telling the truth, but there's a pattern of bad decisions showing he might not be a safe investment, and we're talking about a major investment when you're selecting a player in the top 5-10 picks.

 

[patchick]

The double standard is what's alarming. More in the media than on the board, the fact that he has a couple kids wouldn't have even been brought up if he was white.

Wow...heaven knows there are plenty of double standards that run against black men, but this particular one runs exactly the opposite of what you describe! Look at your own post:

For what it's worth, Derrick Thomas had quite a few illegitimate kids of his own (7 with 5 women), and Santonio Holmes has a couple running around right now (similar to McFadden, 3 with 2 women). Willis McGahee had 3 illegitimate kids with 2 women within his first two seasons. Chad Johnson has 3.

The sad fact is that more than two thirds of all African-American children are born outside of marriage, so it's hardly surprising that a large number of African-American athletes have children out of wedlock -- often more than one. And unless there's a legal issue like child support problems, nobody ever says a word. It's considered par for the course by the media and public, even when major stars are involved. (Did you have any clue about how many kids Randy Moss had before his recent legal/extortion imbroglio?)

But when a Brady or Leinart fathers one child out of marriage, it's front-page news.

The double standard here isn't in making a big deal about black athletes kids -- it's in making no big deal of it at all because nobody expects any different, which is a shame.

Anyway, my take on McFadden is largely like sebman's...

It's not the children, but the overall build up of bad decisions. Also, what worries me a little more is that he claimed to be a changed person after his first bar fight, then got into another very similar fight/altercation, and recently repeated that same "I'm a changed person" line.

Who knows, maybe he's telling the truth, but there's a pattern of bad decisions showing he might not be a safe investment, and we're talking about a major investment when you're selecting a player in the top 5-10 picks.

...combined with a general sentiment against ever drafting an RB that high.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Oh no, he has kids. Well that's a deadly sin, can't have that. Let's cut Tom Brady too!

McFadden is probably the most talented offensive player in this entire draft. If he slides to #7, the Patriots will take a serious look at him.

But I don't think he makes it to #7 so all this speculation remains just that. Good to see the race card getting played this early in the evaluation process too...

 

[dryheat44]

On a side note Dryheat, DRC is wonderin what he has to show you or do for you to climb your draft board. As Mel said, put a Michigan/SC or OSU helmet on his head and evaluate him then.

Believe me, I'd love to do just that. I'd settle for three Tennessee St. game films. The fact is, until I get a chance to watch him in a game that matters, he can't climb up my draft board, through no fault of his own. I'm sure it doesn't keep him up nights.

If Vernon Gholston played at Fort Hayes State and then lit up the combine, would you recommend drafting him in the first round? Matt Ryan from SUNY New Paltz?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Believe me, I'd love to do just that. I'd settle for three Tennessee St. games.

If Vernon Gholston played at Fort Hayes State and then lit up the combine, would you recommend drafting him in the first round? Matt Ryan from SUNY New Paltz?

Heck, why use a hypothetical? Brett Elliott, a Div III QB (who started ahead of Alex Smith before suffering a broken wrist), threw 61 touchdowns in 2004 for a college almost no one's ever heard of. . . . and ended up signing with the Chargers as a UDFA; he got cut during training camp last year. [The snark in me says--so if he signs with the 'lphins. . . . ]

 

[dryheat44]

Heck, why use a hypothetical? Brett Elliott, a Div III QB (who started ahead of Alex Smith before suffering a broken wrist), threw 61 touchdowns in 2004 for a college almost no one's ever heard of. . . . and ended up signing with the Chargers as a UDFA; he got cut during training camp last year. [The snark in me says--so if he signs with the 'lphins. . . . ]

Even there, there's a difference......Elliot had those 61 TDs. If only Cromartie had 20 interceptions....

I'm just tired of debating the merits of DRC. He's an unknown quantity as a football player. He is a confirmed multi-event track champion, and a confirmed first cousin of Antonio Cromartie. I just for the life of me can't see how so many of us are pushing for us to use a first round selection on an virtually unknown player whom very few people had even heard of two months ago.

 

[patchick]

If Vernon Gholston played at Fort Hayes State and then lit up the combine, would you recommend drafting him in the first round?

I hear you, but an opposing argument would be: "If Vernon Gholston played at Troy University and then lit up the combine...he would be Demarcus Ware."

When you're looking at a small-school prospect high, you want him to be the cream of the crop at that level and have extraordinary physical gifts. DRC certainly has the athleticism. As for on-field, who are we kidding, none of us have seen him play. (I don't really count the Senior Bowl, which is custom-made to make a tall, ball-hawking CB look good.) But he was named to every 1AA all-star and all-american list, so I have to assume he impressed the people who really know.

So I'm in the middle. I don't want ANY corner at #7, but after reading everything I can, DRC just might be my top prospect at the position. Vastly riskier than an Antoine Cason, but it's okay to swing for the fences on occasion.

 

[dryheat44]

I hear you, but an opposing argument would be: "If Vernon Gholston played at Troy University and then lit up the combine...he would be Demarcus Ware."

.

That's fine. At the time, I was pushing hard for Merriman over Ware with the same reasoning I'm now pushing for Talib, Cason, and Flowers over Rodgers-Cromartie. Give me the guy I've watched succeed on the field over the guy who's a mystery.

I will say that a D1-AA Pash Rusher has a much easier path to project than a D2 Cornerback.

 

[mike100915]

I'd rather have DRC then Talib. I personally feel Talib has bust written all over him. The guy I prefer is Antoine Cason, who keeps getting completely over looked. He may just very well be the best cover corner in this draft.

One thing I had to say off topic. I was watching ESPN and Merril Hodge said Felix Jones runs like Marion Barber. Mel Kiper and Mortensen couldn't do anything but laugh at him. Hoge is honestly does no homework and is just dumb and says thing to get on TV.

 

[SamBamsFan]

One thing I had to say off topic. I was watching ESPN and Merril Hodge said Felix Jones runs like Marion Barber. Mel Kiper and Mortensen couldn't do anything but laugh at him. Hoge is honestly does no homework and is just dumb and says thing to get on TV.

I honestly think that Jamaal Charles might have a better pro career than Felix. Jones seems to have developed a tendency to bounce everything outside, which I don't think will work @ the Pro level. Depends on where they go to respectively as well...

Getting OT here.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Even there, there's a difference......Elliot had those 61 TDs. If only Cromartie had 20 interceptions....

BTW, I was using Elliott as an example to bolster your argument, not counter it.