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Dan Patrick on Brady

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SVN, Oct 22, 2007.

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  1. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    Dont know if anyone heard him today. Basically he was debating when do we put him in the all time great list . His take was that there seemed to be an anti brady bias for some reason in the last few yrs. Said when he first came in as a 6th round pick replacing bledsoe and it was a great story and people loved him. then he won 2 more , got the women, his coach became more hated for some reason and people started creating a anti tom brady bias with theories like "he is not as good as manning","he has a better defense than the colts","he wins because of belichick". "he doesnt have manning's stats" He says there always seems to be question marks for some reason although people wont remember montana's stats either. Now that he has the stats what do we say now ?

    Was a really interesting take. i will post the audio if its up in their archive sometime.
     
  2. Hok

    Hok Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    When? February 2005.
     
  3. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They all thought he was cute when he was a 6th round system QB on a Cinderella team. By the time he'd won the third Lombardi he was making all the pundits nervous because they can't identify what he is if their lives depended on it. Those darned intangibles that are proving more and more to be far more significant to success as an NFL QB than all the measurables or even pedigree. That's why they gave his 3rd SB MVP to Deion.

    Time the so called experts just said "uncle". And I think one by one they are.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2007
  4. Pats Fanatic

    Pats Fanatic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Dan Patrick is still on the radio.
     
  5. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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  6. Ishdul

    Ishdul On the Game Day Roster

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    I think more people were happy when they thought he was a system QB who would have his moment in the Sun before letting the other teams have a chance. No one likes an all-time great who doesn't play on your team and Brady's no exception.
     
  7. Drewwho

    Drewwho Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Yet I see Peyton get a TON of respect from opposing fans of the Colts. He is adored by most fans and already is called an all-time great - top 5 QB of all time!

    Tom has done more with alot less on his side of the ball and now he is doing alot more with more and still they put Manning ahead of him.

    Face it...people do not want to give this up to a 6th round draft pick. Tom will always be a 6th rounder in the eyes of many who benefited from the following in this order:

    - Charlie Weiss and his system
    - Coach Bellichick
    - A great Defense
    - Getting illegal calls fed into you before the snap to read the defense
    - and now...Randy Moss and Wes Welker

    It is never about Tom Brady! There is always a reason behind his success to many that never include his God given abilities. It infuriates me but I sense it will never go away. Tom Brady will never be in the predigree of the Mannings or even Carson Palmer (who many at the start of this season put in the same class as Brady and some even ahead of).

    This season for Brady is one big biatch slap to the league for this disrespect and I think the video gate crap is what sent him over the edge when he was accussed with cheating by getting the calls fed into him before the snap. Many were discounting anything he had done, all his accomplishments and tainted his Superbowl MVP's etc...I think he has one giant chip on his shoulder and quite frankly, I hope it never goes away!
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2007
  8. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    a great example- hoge on sportscenter says he would pick manning now because he is patient and managing the game better although brady has the stats. Didnt brady do that for the last 6 yrs ?
     
  9. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    There needs to be a re-vamping of how college QB's are scouted.

    Instead of drooling over the cannon arm, these attributes should be given more weight:
    - Come from behind and 4th quarter victories
    - Intelligence (identifying the defense and blitz)
    - Field vision (seeing and recognizing the open receiver, not just primary)
    - Pocket presence (avoiding the rush with side steps, keeping your cool)
    - Ability to motivate and earn respect of teammates through hard work.

    It's just like in baseball, guys like Maddux and Roy Oswalt would never have gotten a chance if scouts just emphasized height or a blazing fastball.

    Guys like Trent Edwards will always be better QB's than cannon-arms like Jay Cutler.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2007
  10. bishbash

    bishbash On the Game Day Roster

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    Don't forget: Brady is just a "system quarterback", whatever that is supposed to mean.
     
  11. letekro

    letekro In the Starting Line-Up

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    Tom has prototypical size, a cannon arm, and had good production in college (which is the manifestation of the "intangible" skills you mentioned). Watching some of his old games on ESPN classic, he had a very good arm, but was very skinny, and of course, split time with Drew Hanson, who scouts were drooling over at the time. He just slipped through the cracks.

    Problem is, it's just easier to recognize the physical attributes. Sometimes you really need to have a guy in camp for a while before you can see all that he brings to the table. However, I know if I could take a guy like JaMarcus Russel or someone less physically impressive, I'm taking Russel every time. There is just a ceiling of what you can do if you have a small, weak-armed QB, just look at Doug Flutie or Chad Pennington.
     
  12. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    I don't think so, back in 2002 I went back and read all his old draft and scouting reports, he was knocked for being way too skinny, not having a strong arm, for not being able to make all the throws. Even his first season or two here, he was restricted to making mostly 0-10 yard passes, further confirming in nonPatsFans minds that he wasn't the real deal.


    Only now do people come around and point to his 6'4 220 frame, his laser accurate arm, and then we all wonder how he ever slipped in the cracks in the first place. But I'm telling you, I read the old reports, he was lucky to even be drafted based on his negative scouting and draft reports.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2007
  13. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    There is a major problem in the QB drafting/scouting process when a diamond like Tom Brady slips all the way down to the 6th round, picked after tons of other QB's. Joe Montana wasn't valued very high either.

    If you look at the QB's who have won multiple superbowls, they weren't recognized as the real deal in the draft. It's guys like Marino, Elway, guys with cannon arms and legs who go in the 1st round.

    The current process identifies Ryan Leaf as a stud while a guy like Brady will be picked in the 6th round.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2007
  14. SCPatBoy

    SCPatBoy On the Game Day Roster

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    Hodge is a joke.....He has always had an anti Patriot Bias as a former Steeler. I see no area in the game that Manning is better then BraDY, Yet I say Brady is a better leader and rises to the occassion, while Manning socumbs to it!
     
  15. Drewwho

    Drewwho Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Manning is great! Never going to dispute that, but the guys play for championships and Tom has 2 more of those at this point.

    Speaking of morons, how about Jason Seyhorn that said he would take Buldger over Brady on his lame Fox show last year! I mean wow, just wow!
     
  16. Drewwho

    Drewwho Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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  17. Brarrell

    Brarrell Practice Squad Player

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    I agree with a couple of posts earlier I think the Pats and Brady are seething over the insinuation that they cheated to win the 3 superbowls. They are taking no prisoners.
     
  18. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They seem to have a great deal of respect
    for Tom over there.
    Begrudging as some of it may be.:D
     
  19. the taildragger

    the taildragger Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Patrick is on to something.

    I always figured there was a lot of ignorance in the Brady/Manning debate....but it's a little surprising how much bias either against Brady or pro-Manning is out there in the media.

    With all the praise being heaped toward Tom this year, an underlying bias is also being systematically exposed....

    Mike Wilbon said tonight that EVEN IF TOM BREAKS ALL THE MAJOR SINGLE SEASON MARKS AND GETS A FOURTH RING (BY THE AGE OF 31), he'd still consider Elway a better QB.

    I fell off my couch.

    Wilbon thinks Brady needs "signature moments" or "drives."

    Snow Bowl? SB 36? SB 38?....Among the greatest drives in history....not good enough for Wilbon (and the silent majority).

    Too bad Kornheiser couldn't remind Wilbon that most of Elway's signature moments were memorably for all the wrong reasons. Sure he had that 5 minute drive against the Browns...anyone remember what happened after that? Don't give me the bad team argument either....he didn't give his team a chance in those games....he had good (not great) receivers and a good (not great) back....he had weapons contrary to popular belief.

    Now nobody expected Elway to win those games, obviously, that would've been Herculean, but he could've done a better job of giving his team a fighting chance. What kind of team were the 01 Pats? Yeah, good (not great) defense, but HORRIBLE offense....sorry, it was horrible....they had no business beating the RAms. Credit Brady for playing an efficient, smart and clutch game....he was better than Elway early in their careers and he's going to stand taller when it's said and done.

    I respect Elway so I'm not going to turn this into a #7 bash fest....but let's just say that Tom already has plenty of drives, signature moments, and credentials that John doesn't.....I don't think we need to rehash his resume here.

    John had the best arm in history. And for half his career a lousy coach....I'll concede both of those.

    But I'm sorry, to accept the hypothetical that TB could finish the year on the pace he's on, without acknowledging that he'd have to be considered by consensus as a better all-around QB than Elway, is about as biased as you can get.

    ........

    The first reason for the bias is that most pundits have already gone on record long ago calling Manning the better QB. Even as they credited Brady over the years for being great, they rarely elevated him to the level of Manning. And hardly ever would a pundit clearly elevate Brady above and beyond Manning. Ironically, by defending their original premature and ignorant positions of long ago, in the face of so much contrary evidence, they are actually undermining the very credibility they covet.

    Second is pure jealousy. Tom is justifiably living the good life and leveraging his god-given glossy image into a brand that is impossible for pundits to latch onto. Peyton's commercialism tends to win over dudes, while Tom's wins over chicks....they're both making good coin, but Tom has his priorities straight....unfortunately, he's also losing the hearts of the self-obsessed, bitter, and largely ugly, media fraternity to Peyton Manning in the process....they can better relate to a guy whose head is shaped like a dick....sorry, couldn't resist.

    The biggest driver for the national consensus of these guys is that 99/100 pundits CAN NOT compare and contrast QB skill sets independent of stats (passer rating are not individual stats but partly the function of the personnel around a QB). Their perspective was largely formed by the respective draft stocks and pedigrees of each QB. Brady's college pedigree is almost universally misunderstood, even by his defenders. But we all know where they were drafted.

    And there's no denying that many pundits have simply been spellbound by Manning's pre snap girations....they sometimes even admit this fact, but it's usually disguised by the old, "he calls his own plays" argument. Well sure, and they're called -- repeat after me -- "au-di-bles"....actually not rare in the NFL....NEVER HAVE BEEN.

    I've always loved the things that others hate about Brady....that he was the REAL underdog. That he always did more with less. That he was underrated despite his unprecedented success. That he never looked for sympathy. That he never let his dad go out and campaign for him. That he neither apologized for his off-field exploits nor drew attention to them. That he didn't do a million commercials about stuff he didn't really care about. That he didn't act like a buffoon at the line of scrimmage. That he never called out his coach, O-line or receivers or teammates in a press conference, just to make himself look good.

    And above all, because he was simply a more physically impressive QB from a pure skills perspective. Bigger arm than Manning, check. Tighter spiral, check. Threw into tighter windows, check. Moved better in the pocket, check. Got better the tougher the game got, check. Didn't play in a dome....etc.

    It's been pretty fun to observe the Manning apologists this year....some are slowly seeing the light of truth....others are digging in deeper....and looking stupid in the process.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2007
  20. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Why are you listening to Hodge.I stopped along time ago, just to many concusions. He has never impressed me as haveing any real football knowlage. In fact I have wondered many times after hearing him how he keeps his job.The only answer I can come up with is that he has to have pictures on somebody.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2007
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