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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DaBruinz, Jun 1, 2007.

  1. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Trading Cassel to the Falcons for a 1st or 2nd pick? I know Matt probably isn't ready, but I could see them trading Cassel to the Falcons if Guitirrez shows something in camp. Especially with Vinny almost certainly being signed at some point.
  2. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    I am a Cassel fan, and I think he is better than a lot of starting quarterbacks around the league, but if the Patriots got a first or second rounder for him that would be the steal of steals.
  3. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Its probably just a dream anyways.... I forget that Atlanta had signed Harrington and also had DJ Shockley.
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Teams have certainly overpaid before but it's difficult to imagine a #2 entering the conversation. If the Falcons are desperate, I could see them trading us a #3 which I'd be fine with.

    For some upside, I'd take a #4 and our option to flip flop SF and Atl #1 next year. I think SF will be better but that option would give us two chances at a really good pick if one tanks.
  5. patsgo

    patsgo Rookie

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    your dreaming, trent green cant get more than a 5 or a 6 but cassell who hasnt done anything since high school will get a 1 or a2 its a nice fairytale its not going to happen, in fact when hes played hes looked shacky and looked like hes running for his life
  6. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    So you expect a young player who has barely played since high school to come into an NFL game and immediately have command and pocket presence?:rolleyes:

    I was very impressed with what I have seen form him in preseason and the Dolphins game, but there is no way we are going to get that much for him.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2007
  7. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Rookie

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    I've been liking what I've been hearing about Gutirrez. Cassel would never amount to a first or second round pick until he shows some good stuff in regular season games and that aint gonna happen with Brady around.
  8. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    Let's hope so.
  9. patsgo

    patsgo Rookie

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    i said he wouldnt get a 1 or a 2, im still not convinced hes anything more than a 3rd qb, what has he done, hes looked tentative, gives the ball up alot in fumbles and interceptions, look id like him to be good but it hasnt happen on the playing field yet
  10. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Trent Green is a 37 year old QB who missed much of last season with a concussion. (read BIG RED FLAG). Green also has a large salary (7.2 million)for this coming season. So, its very understandable why the Chiefs are having a hard time gettng a 5th.

    Now, please refer to Matt Schaub. Schaub has done mostly nothing in the NFL (I wouldn't call a 50% completion percentage as being good), yet the Falcons received 2 2nd round picks and a swap of 2007 1st round picks for him. And you don't think that Cassel could get a measly 2nd from a team that has 2 of them?
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2007
  11. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Rookie

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    The most Cassel has played in the pros is maybe two quarters.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2007
  12. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    Schaub was completely overhyped. He had one good game against and awful Patriots defense that had been preparing all week for Michael Vick. Even then he threw two passes right into Stark's hands but he dropped both because we all know how useless Starks was. He catches those easy picks and suddenly Schaub's stat line looks dramatically worse and the hype for him gets no where near the level it got. It will be hard to recreate those circumstances for Cassel.
  13. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cassel played 3 quarters in 2005 against the hapless Phins and nearly messed up the Pats play-offs for that year by winning the game. And that is with the 2nd string team in there playing for the Pats.
  14. patsgo

    patsgo Rookie

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    green is proven, thrown touchdowns, and has thousands of yards passing, lots of players have concussions and come back to play, again answer my question what has cassell done other that playing average in a meaningless game against a bad dolphins team?
  15. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :bricks:

    Go and look at the trades for Schaub, Rob Johnson, Matt Hasselbeck and quit comparing a young kid to a 37 year old.
  16. patsgo

    patsgo Rookie

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    schaub was a good college qb a 3rd round draft pick and when hes playes hes played good and poised in fact he lit the pats up ypur comparing apples and oranges your argument isnt even close
  17. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And Cassel came close to beating out a two time Heisman Trophy winner to be. Plus he's looked good in his limited playing time and has played for the best coach and behind a hall of fame QB for a few years. Of course he's not proven - duh - but he's as good a bet as many QB coming out of college at this point and would cost less.
  18. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Trent Green is also 37 years old and just came back from a major concussion. He has at best 2 years as a servicable starter left in him. The Dolphins know they are essentially trading a pick for a QB that will give them one year and most likely a losing one at that. Not to mention they are the only team that is serious about acquiring him, so why would they pull a Jerry Jones and bid against themselves? The only team that could possibly throw a monkey wrench into the situation is Atlanta and to be honest - I don't think they would do a whole lot better with Green than they would with Harrington.

    Now, do I think Cassell will bring in a 1 or 2? A number 1 no, not really but a number two is possible and a 3rd is likely. Playing on the Patriots for two seasons under a good coaching staff and winning the trust of that coaching staff, increases his value. Not to mention getting tutelage from Tom Brady. I also wouldn't call his play "shacky and running for his life". In the one full regular season game he played, he nearly beat the Dolphins starters with our backups. He actually looks very poised when he plays during Pre-Season - again with the backups and camp fodder. He backed up Carson Palmer and was beat out by Matt Leinert, not exactly something to be ashamed of and drafted even though he didn't play in college. That says something about his abilities. If you recall our very own Tommy struggled for playing time throughout his college career at Michigan and both Brady and Cassell chose to stick it out. Does that mean he will be the next Brett Favre or Steve Young? Nope, but it doesn't mean he will be the next Scott Mitchell either.

    I think your camparison is off base, Green is a rent a player and any franchise (yes, even the Dolphins) knows this - that coupled with a lack of suitors, makes Green worth a 6th maybe a 5th round pick.

    If Schaub - a guy who showed some flashes of talent in a limited amount of games (much like Scott Mitchell) is worth a move up in the first round, a second round pick this year and next years number 2 - then Cassell is well worth a 3rd and depending on the interest could very well land a 2nd round pick.
  19. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here are Schaub's numbers

    CMP - 84
    ATT - 161
    PCT - 52.2
    YDS - 1033
    AVG - 6.4
    TD - 6
    LNG - 59
    INT - 6
    RTG - 69.2

    Not exactly hall of fame numbers and he brought in a first round swap and two 2nd round picks.

    Here are Cassell's numbers

    CMP - 18
    ATT - 32
    PCT - 56.3
    YDS - 215
    AVG - 6.7
    TD - 2
    LNG - 36
    INT - 1
    RTG - 84.8

    So why couldn't he bring in a 3rd?

    Edit: I also forgot to mention Doug Flutie and Vinny T when I mentioned tutelage. Who tutored Schaub? Mike Vick!
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2007
  20. patsgo

    patsgo Rookie

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    i hope your right , what ive seen from him i think hes a good backup, and hes looked tentative, all the players you mentionrd showed flashes of brillace when they played, ive yet to see it from cassell i hope he proves me wrong, i see him getting blind sidded alot and running for his life in his limited playind time, if another team was to trade for him they would see the same thing on tape, plus the fact he hasnt got much experiece in college or the pros
  21. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    I don't think the Falcons would make that trade simply bc they just traded Schaub and it would be a bit of a PR loss for the front office.

    Plus, if Vick is gone for any amount of serious time because of his dog problems, the whole team will be given a mulligan for 07, so I don't know that they would mortgage a high draft pick for what will be perceived as a surprise "re-building" year; new coach doesn't hurt that freebie rebuilding year either.

    All of this doesn't even factor in that Cassel has had no real live action.

    When is his contract up? That will be key to any movement on the Pats part.
  22. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

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    honestly..Cassell aint even worth a 4

    what has he shown? 56.6%, 84.8 rating 2 TDs 1 INT

    he doesnt have starting experience..hes been inconsistent in preseason. i like ihm a lot.. but a 1st? a 2nd? a 3rd? or a 4th? Nope. Unless (god forbid), Brady gets hurt,i dont see ihm starting games which is his only way to impress really for a high draft pick
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2007
  23. patsgo

    patsgo Rookie

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    rohan davey played for belicheck and was behind brady , also was mvp of europe, how did that work out, kliff kingsbury was behind brady to
  24. BelichickFan

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    Cassel's value can't be determined in numbers. It's in upside and it's pretty good. We won't get a #1 pick for him but I bet we'd get a #3. He's smart, he's got a good arm, he's got good mobility (admittedly he needs to slide better) and he's got some development in at an NFL level. There's nothing to not like except for experience.

    And don't bother with Rohan Davey, anyone who watched them both in preseason knows Cassel looks a lot better. Even after Davey's NFLE performance he didn't look as good in preseason as Cassel has.
  25. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

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    he did put up good stats in preseason but he had a lot of cases of happy feet. A 3rd for a guy who never started a game in NFL? I give it 2-3 more years if he can get on the field(god forbid) unless were 15-0 and give him the last game to rest the others
  26. BelichickFan

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    I don't care about Cassel's stats. Yes he had happy feet. And yes he's gonna get himself killed without sliding better. But he also has good downfield awareness and a habit of making plays.

    You say : "A 3rd for a guy who never started a game in NFL?"
    I say : Name me a draft pick who has started a game in the NFL.
  27. patsgo

    patsgo Rookie

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    look i like him the point was a 1, 2 or3 for him and i think that just way to high for what hes dont you can look at the rosters of most of the teams and they all have a young guy with upside, the question is value and i wouldnr gine uo a 1,2,or 3, for him when you do that your basically building your team aruond that player, buffalo was wrong with johnson, miami was wrong with feeley,texas is rolling the dice with schaub, it worked for holmgren, but he had first hand knowledge of the player
  28. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And in what season was either of them the number 2?
  29. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Next year is his last year under contract so it is more than likely that Guttierez was signed with the hopes that he will develop this season into next years number 2. Allowing the Pats to shop Cassell next off season. At least that is what makes the most sense to me.

    But if a desperate team came calling, it would be interesting to see how the Pats would handle the situation - given that they would only have Vinny behind Brady.
  30. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How about Gutierrez for LaDainian Tomlinson?

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