Colts Franchise Tag Freeney

[RyanTheColtsFan]

I think he meant 6.

Then I guess his post is a bit more accurate. Although, that loss to the Miami Dolphins when Mike Vanderjagt shanked it (again) still hurts. That was NOT Manning's loss.

 

[Rob0729]

1. I view all the whining coming out of Buffalo right now as posturing by the Bills in advance of continued discussions over revenue sharing. Things have gotten fairly acrimonious between the Bills and Patriots ownership.

2. The new CBA penalizes teams who pay lots of signing bonuses by lowering their cap for the duration of the agreement. If this is a big problem, then its being addressed (I believe quite effectively).

3. These franchises are worth huge amounts of money. If the Bills ownership can't figure out a way to finance a $20M signing bonus for 4-5 years, then either they have WAY too much debt or Kraft is right about their lack of business accument.

4. The league has already agreed to the Salary cap for at least the first four years of the CBA (through 2009 after which I think both sides get an option to terminate). When the salary cap is renegotiated, I doubt very much that the percentage of gross will go DOWN. It should increase modestly. If the Bills want to fix their finances through the league, they're going to have to focus on increased revenue sharing (hence the posturing).

My guess is that substantial additional revenue sharing will occur, and that the only questions are of magnitude and mechanism.

The whining is more than whining though. They are letting Nate Clement walk away because they claim they can't afford to give him a bonus. They have already said they are using the cap as a hard cap and not spending over the cap with bonus money. The Levy and Wilson are morons if they are just posturing and letting Clement and Fletcher to hit free agency just to prove a point.

I don't think it is unrealistic to believe that a team like the Bills can't finance Clements' contract. It isn't just his contract. It is every free agent they sign, all the rookies, all the money they have already financed in previous years to sign free agents, etc. It is more than $20 million. Most teams probably have considerably more than that financed to pay salaries. It may cost $18 million in bonuses to sign Clement, but it will also cost $6-8 in bonuses to sign higher mid-tier free agents too.

As the cap goes up every level of signing bonuses go up too. In fact, mid-tier players tend to have their bonuses go up higher percentage-wise than the higher tier. So many teams have tons of cash and there ain't many upper tier free agents to be had. So teams throw money at the better second tier free agents. That is why Randel El can get $11 million in guarantees, David Givens can get an $8 million signing bonus, etc.

As for Wilson vs. Kraft, Kraft turned this franchise from a money loser to a huge money winner. He has put a lot of money into this franchise, but this franchise is generating more revenue than virtually every other franchise in the league. Kraft's operational profit is probably bigger than what the Bills do in five years. It isn't fair to expect the Bills and other small market teams to have the financial stability of the Patriots. That is like comparing the financial stability of Walmart vs. a regional department store chain. I think Wilson is going overboard, but he does have somewhat of a point.

As for penalizing the teams who spend over the cap, what does it matter if the Bills are consistently $10 million under the cap going forward because they can't afford bonuses of higher priced players? The cap penalites are nothing of a penalty if the small market teams are priced out of the big market free agents. Who cares if Daniel Snyder's cap is lowered by $1-2 million if the Bills go into the season $10 million under the cap. If the signing bonuses continue to increase exponentially, the smaller market teams will have their own cap penalties themselves.

 

[Rob0729]

How much?????

Maybe it will be 2010. I don't remember how long the cap correction is to take place. But it won't go up $7 million a year every year. It will start to slow down sooner or later.

 

[spacecrime]

Then I guess his post is a bit more accurate. Although, that loss to the Miami Dolphins when Mike Vanderjagt shanked it (again) still hurts. That was NOT Manning's loss.

Glad to see it isn't just some Pats fans who think that the only play out of 120 that counts is the last one. We had guys who thought AV was stupendous for making the last kick in the Panthers SB, and I wonder why the first two misses didn't count?

Manning and the D need to take some repsonsibility for a loss, even if the past play was a kick.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Ralph Wilson is a senile moron taking the ostrich position with regard to today's NFL economics. He owns the stadium, so his debt is minimal. Kraft assumed huge debt when he built the new stadium. Wilson needs to borrow money for cash to bonus players, raise revenue in parking and naming rights, put a better product on the field and raise his low ticket prices a modest amount.

 

[spacecrime]

As for Wilson vs. Kraft, Kraft turned this franchise from a money loser to a huge money winner. He has put a lot of money into this franchise, but this franchise is generating more revenue than virtually every other franchise in the league. Kraft's operational profit is probably bigger than what the Bills do in five years. It isn't fair to expect the Bills and other small market teams to have the financial stability of the Patriots. That is like comparing the financial stability of Walmart vs. a regional department store chain. I think Wilson is going overboard, but he does have somewhat of a point.

Sure, his point is that he doesn't care if Kraft worked and put money into his franchise to make it profitable. It isn't just a small market. He refuses to do anything to make it profitable. Why, when he thinks he can get money from Kraft and Jones etc?

His point is that he can refuse to sell the naming rights to his stadium, yet demand a percentage of the money other teams get from naming their stadiums.

I'm all for revenue sharing. I think it makes the game better. But cheaters need to be held up for what they are. They must make an equal effort at earning money to share in the profits.

No sitting on your butt doing nothing while others earn money for you.

 

[Yankees/Colts]

It's not 6. It's 7 of 9 years.

They made the playoffs in 6 of his 9 seasons, although they struggled to win a playoff game until year 6. They were thought to have cleared that hurdle in 2003 winning in the WC and division rounds before Peyton threw 4 picks to end that season. Then they slipped back to one and done in 2004 because it snowed. 2005 they somehow turned domed HFA throughout to one and done dispite the officials valient efforts to hand them the game. And of course, it was always the defenses fault, with honorable mention to the Oline, Edge and the incredible disappearing Marvin. But finally after 9 long years Polian's upwards of $90M investment in him, you waltzed past the team that crawled into the WC, you had a kicker carry you through the division round, the flu and Bob Sanders leveled your perceived impediment in the championship round and your defense flumoxed the hapless Rex Grossman as a rookie RB and a JAG RB toted the rock, and Peyton somehow collected the SBMVP. No wonder Rhodes was drinking.

You are up against the cap, have a boatload of UFA and RFA, pick last in the first round of the draft and not again until the end of day 1, your HC is likely gearing up for his swan song, but you'll be fine. We know from recent history how easy defense of title seasons unfold. Let alone one Polian engineers... After all, look how many teams repeat...

Hey, you can spin tales of the past, I'll tell tales of the present... while I polish the 2006 Lombardi trophy. Talk all you will about past playoff performances but you just pulled off the greatest big game playoff choke in NFL history... an 18 point, 32 point second half choke , a choke greater than all the Colts failures combined. Talk all you will about Peyton's past failures but his comeback in that game and 80 yard drive at the end were greater than all of Brady's little dink and dunk drives finished off by, Colt legend, Adam Vinatieri's kicks combined. Talk about Peyton's past? Let's talk about Brady's present: Brady throwing away the playoff game last year to Champ Bailey, going 3 and out from most of the second quarter on in the AFC Championship, sealing the AFC Championship with an INT, turning into Rex Grossman vs. the Chargers, throwing 4 TDs and 10 INTs this season vs. division winners, including 1 TD and 5 INTs vs. the Super Bowl champs, choking away home field advantage by throwing 4 INTs vs. the Colts.

To further knock you out of the past, let me hammer home the reality that the Colts now own YOU. It's not 2003. Three straight, two in your own house, and your aging defense cannot stop the Colts at all.

Let's talk about your future with an aging defense. You cannot stop the Colts at all as is, and the heart of your defense, Bruschi and Harrison are getting older and becoming more fragile. Do you remember the last time in 2005 when you played without both? I do. Your defense looked like the worst defense in the history of the NFL.

Also, if I were Pats fans I would be praying for one hell of a successful season from Tom Coughlin next year. Perhaps Bill would like to return to the Giants. Bill goes = party over.

And hey, thanks for the compliment. Colts fans are awesome too, in a naive mid-western sort of way.

Yeah, and Boston fans are awesome in a "we have an inferiority complex as a second rate city compared to New York" sort of way.

 

[pats1]

It's not 6. It's 7 of 9 years.

All true, but only if you count that spectacular 41-0 performance.

Let's talk about your future with an aging defense. You cannot stop the Colts at all as is, and the heart of your defense, Bruschi and Harrison are getting older and becoming more fragile. Do you remember the last time in 2005 when you played without both? I do. Your defense looked like the worst defense in the history of the NFL.

Give me a break. There were 10,000 other factors into that and you know it.

"Aging defense?"

Get a clue. Last time I checked, Roman Phifer, Ted Johnson, Willie McGinest, Bobby Hamilton, Ted Washington, Anthony Pleasant, Keith Traylor, Ty Law, Rick Lyle, Tyrone Poole, and others ARE NOT on the Patriots anymore.

2007 Colts defense:

DE - Mathis (26)
DE - Freeney (27)
DT - Reagor (30)
DT - Brock (29)
OLB - Hagler (26)
OLB - Keiaho (25)
ILB - Brackett (27)
CB - Jackson (24)
CB - Hayden (24)
FS - Sanders (26)
SS - Bethea (23)

Average age: 26.1

And a defense that could lose June, Morris, Harper, David, and Doss (hurt in 2006) most likely won't get better.

2007 Pats Defense:

DE - Warren (26)
DE - Seymour (28)
NT - Wilfork (26)
OLB - Vrabel (32)
OLB - Colvin (30)
ILB - Bruschi (34)
ILB - Alexander (25)
CB - Samuel (26)
CB - Hobbs (25)
FS - Wilson (27)
SS - Harrison (35)

Average age: 28.5

And a defense that gets their two starting Super Bowl safeties back, won't lose anyone (save TBC), and has plenty of cap room to add more pieces and 2 first round picks most likely won't get worse.

 

[everlong]

an 18 points, 32 point second half choke , a choke greater than all the Colts failures combined.

So the 2004 ALCS choke by the Yankees must have erased all of their 26 championships since that was the greatest meltdown in ALL OF SPORTS HISTORY (not just baseball)? And certainly worse than any, yes worse than 86 which is ancient history by your standards any way, in Red Soxs history.

So which is it

Yankees > Soxs

Or

Colts > Pats

By your "logic" it cannot be both.

 

[Yankees/Colts]

So the 2004 ALCS choke by the Yankees must have erased all of their 26 championships since that was the greatest meltdown in ALL OF SPORTS HISTORY (not just baseball)? And certainly worse than any, yes worse than 86 which is ancient history by your standards any way, in Red Soxs history.

So which is it

Yankees > Soxs

Or

Colts > Pats

By your "logic" it cannot be both.

Yeah, you're right. The two whole playoff games the Pats beat the Colts do seem to equal the 80-90 years of horror for the Red Sox and 26 titles for the Yanks.

You beat the Colts in the playoffs two whole times. Now the Colts have beaten you once. Get real.

 

[everlong]

Yeah, you're right. The two whole playoff games the Pats beat the Colts does seem to equal the 80-90 years of horror for the Red Sox and 26 titles for the Yanks.

You beat the Colts in the playoffs two whole times. Now the Colts beat you once. Get real.

Ah so now it's 80-90 years because that fits your arguement the best. Go back to the Bronx troll.

 

[Yankees/Colts]

DE - Warren (26)
DE - Seymour (28)
NT - Wilfork (26)
OLB - Vrabel (32)
OLB - Colvin (30)
ILB - Bruschi (34)
ILB - Alexander (25)
CB - Samuel (26)
CB - Hobbs (25)
FS - Wilson (27)
SS - Harrison (35)

Average age: 28.5

Unfortunately the heart of your defense and its two key players are the two oldest. Again, do you remember your defense last season without Bruschi and Harrison?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

All true, but only if you count that spectacular 41-0 performance.

Last time I trust you and Ryan as my proofreaders.

Some Colts fans understand how the game is played, although this one still doesn't grasp the fact that Irsay doesn't have deep pockets and apparently has no qualms about a potential impending cash over cap penalty. And doing what he suggests in a thread on Indy Star (responding to someone else who worried aloud that things might be too tight) would cost closer to $50M+ in bonus money this year since they need to sign Freeney and he'll want at least what Richard got ($18), Peyton just pocketed another $10M roster bonus, he wants to pony up $15M to save $3M on Glenn and sign June as well as most of the other UFA's and RFA's to initially cap friendly ong term deals via bonus. Irsay only managed to get through last year with bonuses to Manning and Harrison as well as Wayne and Mathis because he got a one time buyout on the lease arrangement for RCA whereby the city used to pay $10M per to cover Mannings nut. That's $30M gone now, and he's on his own a year before his shiny new taxpayer stadium, which won't generate enough cash flow alone to outstrip the haves, even comes on line. The man had to sell his private rock and roll memorabelia collection in 2004 to help fund Peyton's $34.5M signing bonus for God sakes...

But this intrepid Colts fan says:

"A lot depends on how much money they have to spend. Not the funny money, pie in the sky, cap stuff; but real, hard, cash on the barrelhead, money.

What's the difference, you ask?

The difference is that salary cap numbers are an accounting gimmick. Cash is the stuff you have in the bank. Cash is the stuff that signing bonuses are made of.

On the surface, the Colts have salary cap issues. But, if they're willing to spend enough money, to sign enough guys like Lilja to new contracts, those issues go away.

Take Lilja, for instance. Keeping him off the free agent market will require the team to ante up $1.8 Million, next year. On the other hand, they could sign him to a long term contract that'd shave half a million off that number.

Do the same with Scott, David, Thomas, Reid and Utecht, and you've got enough cap space to sign June.

And, then, there's Tarik Glenn. He's in the final year of a contract that carries a cap value of more than $8 Million. Invest $15 Million in a signing bonus for him, and you can shave that number by $3 Million.

Of course, we're talking about spending $30 or $40 Million on signing bonuses, and that's the rub. "

That is indeed a rub.

 

[solman]

The whining is more than whining though. They are letting Nate Clement walk away because they claim they can't afford to give him a bonus. They have already said they are using the cap as a hard cap and not spending over the cap with bonus money. The Levy and Wilson are morons if they are just posturing and letting Clement and Fletcher to hit free agency just to prove a point.

I don't think it is unrealistic to believe that a team like the Bills can't finance Clements' contract. It isn't just his contract. It is every free agent they sign, all the rookies, all the money they have already financed in previous years to sign free agents, etc. It is more than $20 million. Most teams probably have considerably more than that financed to pay salaries. It may cost $18 million in bonuses to sign Clement, but it will also cost $6-8 in bonuses to sign higher mid-tier free agents too.

As the cap goes up every level of signing bonuses go up too. In fact, mid-tier players tend to have their bonuses go up higher percentage-wise than the higher tier. So many teams have tons of cash and there ain't many upper tier free agents to be had. So teams throw money at the better second tier free agents. That is why Randel El can get $11 million in guarantees, David Givens can get an $8 million signing bonus, etc.

As for Wilson vs. Kraft, Kraft turned this franchise from a money loser to a huge money winner. He has put a lot of money into this franchise, but this franchise is generating more revenue than virtually every other franchise in the league. Kraft's operational profit is probably bigger than what the Bills do in five years. It isn't fair to expect the Bills and other small market teams to have the financial stability of the Patriots. That is like comparing the financial stability of Walmart vs. a regional department store chain. I think Wilson is going overboard, but he does have somewhat of a point.

As for penalizing the teams who spend over the cap, what does it matter if the Bills are consistently $10 million under the cap going forward because they can't afford bonuses of higher priced players? The cap penalites are nothing of a penalty if the small market teams are priced out of the big market free agents. Who cares if Daniel Snyder's cap is lowered by $1-2 million if the Bills go into the season $10 million under the cap. If the signing bonuses continue to increase exponentially, the smaller market teams will have their own cap penalties themselves.

I'm saying that the new cash cap makes it a bad idea to spend more cash in one season (including signing bonuses) than the cash cap level (which I think is 59/57th of the hard cap).

If the Bills want to keep pace with the Patriots, they only need to spend about $2M cash beyond the cap each season.

If we take the Bills ownership literally at their word, they intend to spend $109M this year while optimal spending level will likely be $111M. That's hardly a huge disadvantage.

I understand that you're saying someday in the future the hard cap will be $150M, the optimal level cash level will be $153M, and they'll only want to spend $140M.

If half a dozen teams are forced to do that, then I'm all for additional revenue sharing.

On the other hand, if only a couple of teams (which haven't even taken basic steps to address their cash shortfall like selling naming rights) are in this position, let them move the team or sell it to more competent owners.

 

[solman]

Maybe it will be 2010. I don't remember how long the cap correction is to take place. But it won't go up $7 million a year every year. It will start to slow down sooner or later.

You were right about 2009 (and 2011) being the go slow years. I think that organic revenue growth will still cause the cap increase those years to substantially exceed $4M, but its not as far fetched as I originally thought. Especially if the TV deals also flat line in those years.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Unfortunately the heart of your defense and its two key players are the two oldest. Again, do you remember your defense last season without Bruschi and Harrison?

The heart of your defense is currently under a non exclusive franchise tag that is going to cost you over $11M against the cap this season unless Irsay pony's up $20M or so in bonus money to get him signed to a long term deal by July 15th. And it's soul is an extremely fragile young SS who missed most of last season so he could play against us and in the playoffs.

We have upwards of $24M in cap space with which to retool even if we maintain the tag on Samuel and 3 picks in the first two rounds pending more if we trade Samuel and add picks and cap rather than retain him.

Our defense last season did just fine until it caught the flu in January. Yours plays well in ocassional spurts, while ours is so consistent when it coughs up a furball it's front page news.

You can't stay on point (cap) so you revert to selective memory ramblings that only include recent Colt and not so recent Yankee glories...LOL

 

[Miguel]

More precisely, I am betting that in the 2008, 2009 and 2010 seasons, the Colts will not win more than 1 playoff game. I'd be happy to take additional action on this proposition..

What are the terms of the bet???

 

[Yankees/Colts]

Our defense last season did just fine until it caught the flu in January.

The flu story is awesome. :rocker: And, it grows by the hour.

What happened the previous two games vs. the Colts? Malaria?

How about the two previous, non-blizzard, games before that?

In the last three games vs. the Colts your defense has on average given up 35 points a game. In 32 possessions in those games, your defense has forced SIX(6) punts, total.

You can't stay on point

Well, I had to address your silliness.

 

[solman]

I wrote:

I am betting that in the 2008, 2009 and 2010 seasons, the Colts will not win more than 1 playoff game.

What are the terms of the bet???

Even odds. Between $20 and $200 your call. Escrow at your option.

If you win I'll kick in another 50% or $20 (whichever is smaller) to your food pantry.

 

[AdamJT13]

To answer a few questions from this thread --

-- The Patriots ended the 2006 season with 76 cents of cap room, not 78 cents.

-- Freeney's prorated bonus charges are $484,285 for 2007 and $484,288 for 2008. If he doesn't sign an extension before his contract voids, the 2008 portion will accelerate into 2007.

-- Freeney's scheduled 2007 base salary of $1,001,000 currently counts against the Colts' cap and will until the contract officially voids.

-- So, if Freeney doesn't sign before free agency opens, his total cap charges for 2007 will be $9,612,573 at that point (until either he signs a new contract or until the end of the free-aency period, when his tender amount will be recalculated). His cap charge right now is $1,485,285, so the Colts' cap room would be reduced by a net $8,127,288 (the tender amount of $8,644,000, minus the previously scheduled base salary of $1,001,000, plus the accelerated bonus charge of $484,288).