Chad and Eddie Jackson activated; Ventrone released

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Chad Jackson activated

Well we all would love Stallworth back because he is a good player, but since Moss is only signed for 1 year, signing him for long term will be there #1 priority. The Patriots will look to sign Moss to a 5 year term to lower his cap hit. Unless someone decides to restructure there contract, i dont see alot of CAP room for Stallworth especially with Brady's cap hit will balloon in 2008. Unless he decides to restructure, there will be not enough room to fit him in.

Brady's deal can easily be restructured to free up another $2-3M, if not redone to accommodate a 3-4 year extension that locks him up through retirement in 2013-14. Colvin, whom some here dissed as recently as last month, has a $7M cap hit in the final year of his 6 year deal so he too will likely be extended for another 3 years which will result in his cap hit dropping probably by half. Washington is already built in to the 2008 cap at $5.7M which he won't see but Randy could. Stallworth's money is already built into the cap through 2012 and it was essentially Branch's money. It can also be easily restructured without being reduced to lower his cap hit in 2008 by a couple of million. With those players signed and restructured, and Washington gone, and including $6M in excess cap to be rolled over, we should have over $25M in cap space available heading into 2008 with Moss, Bruschi and Seau or their replacements, and Samuel and Gay or their replacements to be signed. That should be ample room to resign those and several other players to fill out the roster.

CJ will likely start the 2008 season as the replacement for Gaffney/Washington and have to prove he can consistently be more than that in the NFL before Bill is even willing to pencil him in as a #2. Remember, he's only on a 4 year deal and he's already nearly half way through it... If he pans out in 2009 he will enter his contract season in 2010. Stallworth is signed through 2012, at what on average is in today's money a fair deal for a very good (but not elite) #1 (or essentially a 1B/2A).

 

[MoLewisrocks]

So, I guess those of us who said Chad wouldn't go on the IR were correct.

He'll probably be the 5th or 6th WR for a few games, but when the Pats get close to the playoffs I wouldn't be shocked if he takes over for Gaffney. He could help out as a returner, and will see time on coverage teams.

Eddie Jackson is a good special teamer, and could be a decent backup CB, so he'll add to the backend of the roster.

You are pre-supposing he can stay healthy in a role he couldn't stay healthy in last season. And the liklihood of Bill shifting away from his veterans heading into the playoffs is slim. He makes many of his decisions based not on potential but on trust built up over seasons.

 

[sebman2112]

You are pre-supposing he can stay healthy in a role he couldn't stay healthy in last season. And the liklihood of Bill shifting away from his veterans heading into the playoffs is slim. He makes many of his decisions based not on potential but on trust built up over seasons.

Well, let's put it this way, if Chad stays healthy I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the season he's the 4th WR. I don't see anything wrong with that statement by the way.

 

[wdkantro2]

Re: Chad Jackson activated

Brady's deal can easily be restructured to free up another $2-3M, if not redone to accommodate a 3-4 year extension that locks him up through retirement in 2013-14. Colvin, whom some here dissed as recently as last month, has a $7M cap hit in the final year of his 6 year deal so he too will likely be extended for another 3 years which will result in his cap hit dropping probably by half. Washington is already built in to the 2008 cap at $5.7M which he won't see but Randy could. Stallworth's money is already built into the cap through 2012 and it was essentially Branch's money. It can also be easily restructured without being reduced to lower his cap hit in 2008 by a couple of million. With those players signed and restructured, and Washington gone, and including $6M in excess cap to be rolled over, we should have over $25M in cap space available heading into 2008 with Moss, Bruschi and Seau or their replacements, and Samuel and Gay or their replacements to be signed. That should be ample room to resign those and several other players to fill out the roster.

CJ will likely start the 2008 season as the replacement for Gaffney/Washington and have to prove he can consistently be more than that in the NFL before Bill is even willing to pencil him in as a #2. Remember, he's only on a 4 year deal and he's already nearly half way through it... If he pans out in 2009 he will enter his contract season in 2010. Stallworth is signed through 2012, at what on average is in today's money a fair deal for a very good (but not elite) #1 (or essentially a 1B/2A).

The only way Stallworth stays if they restructure or they can't sign Moss. In 2008 he is due $11 million including his bonuses from that year. There is no way in hell that the Pats tie up $11 million in one receiver.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Chad Jackson activated

May be wrong here, but didn't a lot of people view the Stallworth signing as a 1 year thing, since his cap hit jumps up a lot next year? In that case, I'd think both sides went in knowing that this year could be used a) as a stopgap for the pats while CJ matured, and b) as a platform where Stallworth could display his skills and get a longer contract from another team. I don't see why that would change now if Jackson plays well.

 

[sebman2112]

Re: Chad Jackson activated

The only way Stallworth stays if they restructure or they can't sign Moss. In 2008 he is due $11 million including his bonuses from that year. There is no way in hell that the Pats tie up $11 million in one receiver.

His cap hit isn't $11M next year though (which is all that really matters), and NE can convert his bonus money in order to spread it out out over the remainder of the deal. The total contract isn't any more than what they offered Deion Branch, and I entirely expect to see Stallworth on the 2008 Patriots.

Also, the first year of the contract was basically a "prove it" year, and to this point Stallworth has played pretty well. If NE were to cut Stallworth they'd have some fun ever getting another player to agree to one of those "prove it" deals.

The Pats have enough cap room, and with an extension to a few players they'll be perfectly fine. Let's not forget NE has a lot of nice draft picks to help fill the final roster spots.

 

[ALP]

maybe after we start getting away in the rest of this years games, they will want to take out moss, stallworth, and replace them with chad and kelley...

and if they want to take out welker, gaffney can take his spot...

 

[Remix 6]

i dont see why everyone assumes someone will be gone next year..Moss doesnt need money. We'll show respect and give him a good deal but it wont be equal to his talent. He came to win..were winning. He could care less about money. Stallworth..hes playing great..i dont see why "hes the odd man out" besides money factor. Patriots knew what they were getting..and the contract was there and he took it. If everything stays well..im sure we'll be glad to have him. Its up to him if he wants to stick. Gaffney..hes gone unless he resigns. Washington is getting paid A LOT for a ST/5th WR .

 

[mgteich]

SPECIAL TEAMER AND WIDE RECEIVER - JACKSON

I don't understand the cap concern, nor the apparent need of some to dump Stallworth if he doesn't take a cut in pay.

We have four receivers signed through next year. Stallworth, Welker and Jackson are worth their cap money and are signed long-term. If we didn't think Stallworth was worth $6M a year, we wouldn't have signed the contract.
A healthy Stallworth is worth the money.

Washington is slated to cost us almost $6M in cap money. An extension to Moss (with no increase this year), could easily be done with a $6M 2008 cap amount. It is as simple as Moss replacing Washington.

This would set our wide receivers for several years. The focus of rebuilding can move elsewhere.

SPECIAL TEAMER AND DEFENSIVE BACK - JACKSON

Do we have too many defensive backs, as has been posted. I think that the numbers are misleading. There are several defensive backs and linebackers that have almost all their reps on Special Teams.

Are we thin at linebacker? We certainly are with Alexander injured. The issue is health. I could see Alexander put on IR if he isn't healthy soon.

 

[Oswlek]

Re: Chad Jackson activated

The only way Stallworth stays if they restructure or they can't sign Moss. In 2008 he is due $11 million including his bonuses from that year. There is no way in hell that the Pats tie up $11 million in one receiver.

Please explain what the difference between the $11 million Stallworth is due and the likely $11 million signing bonus that a quality receiver would likely command is.

The statement that you made (and this isn't targetted just at you. Nearly every "expert" said the same thing) is a complete falacy. If NE feels that Donte is worth a $30mm 6 year deal after this season, he will be back at about the same moneys he is due now. They would just restructure it so the $11mm looked more like a signing bonus than a roster or option.

 

[ATippett56]

I don't understand the cap concern, nor the apparent need of some to dump Stallworth if he doesn't take a cut in pay.

What about cornerback Asante Samuel? Ellis Hobbs has played substandard cornerback this year and cornerback Randall Gay is an unrestricted free agent, as well. I'd rather lose Donte Stallworth than Asante Samuel considering wide receiver Chad Jackson has the same physical tools as Donte Stallworth.

http://www.patscap.com/futureyears.html

 

[cstjohn17]

SPECIAL TEAMER AND DEFENSIVE BACK - JACKSON

Does Jackson play defensive back? I don't think his chances of staying healthy on defense, so far he has been, how should we say it.... brittle as hell.

IMO Stallworth has a highly replaceable skills set, Moss is a game altering impact player. If it came to it I would cut all of our WRs if it meant we could sign Moss, while maybe not Welker.

Good points about cap money for CBs versus WRs, put me in the camp of signing Samuel (or his replacement) with Stallworths money.

If Stallworth re-does his contract and ends up around $3-4 per year then I would do it but not at the present numbers.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

SPECIAL TEAMER AND WIDE RECEIVER - JACKSON

I don't understand the cap concern, nor the apparent need of some to dump Stallworth if he doesn't take a cut in pay.

We have four receivers signed through next year. Stallworth, Welker and Jackson are worth their cap money and are signed long-term. If we didn't think Stallworth was worth $6M a year, we wouldn't have signed the contract.
A healthy Stallworth is worth the money.

Washington is slated to cost us almost $6M in cap money. An extension to Moss (with no increase this year), could easily be done with a $6M 2008 cap amount. It is as simple as Moss replacing Washington.

This would set our wide receivers for several years. The focus of rebuilding can move elsewhere.

This was all a function of the really silly and thoughtless media spin on Stallworth's deal, precipitated by Pastabelli's disingenuous use of the term "exorbitent" to describe Stallworth's 2008 cash outlay which would still be a couple of million less than what the Seahawks handed Deion in 2006 in signing bonus and salary just like Stallworth's 2 and 3 year take is less than that deal...

The option bonus is already automatically projected as pro rated, but simply converting the remaining $3.6M in roster bonuses in 2008 to signing bonus will lower his 2008 cap hit to $3.5M and save $2.9M on the 2008 cap. Converting his 2009 roster bonus to signing bonus would then leave his 2009 cap hit around $4.3M or about $600K lower than it currently projects.

Naturally that means his backend cap hits increase from $6.4M to $7.5M, but by then that will still likely be below the going rate for a #1WR which he very well may be by 2010 when the cap is approaching $140M. It also increases his dead cap in the backend by around $3.4M, but that's a risk worth taking if the rewawrd is he remains healthy and productive througout this and next season.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

What about cornerback Asante Samuel? Ellis Hobbs has played substandard cornerback this year and cornerback Randall Gay is an unrestricted free agent, as well. I'd rather lose Donte Stallworth than Asante Samuel considering wide receiver Chad Jackson has the same physical tools as Donte Stallworth.

http://www.patscap.com/futureyears.html

If we can't get those two resigned with upwards of $25M in cap space it won't be because of Stallworth - it will be because they wanted more than Bill believes they are worth. PS - lots of guys have physical tools, that's how they sucker GM's into drafting them. There is no guarantee any of them will be able to consistently convert them into a productive NFL career in case you hadn't noticed. Stallworth has now proven he can.

 

[cstjohn17]

Naturally that means his backend cap hits increase from $6.4M to $7.5M, but by then that will still likely be below the going rate for a #1WR which he very well may be by 2010 when the cap is approaching $140M. It also increases his dead cap in the backend by around $3.4M, but that's a risk worth taking if the rewawrd is he remains healthy and productive througout this and next season.

The issue is he is not a #1 WR, on some teams he would be a #2 on this team he is #3.

If the 08 & 09 cap hits are around $3 - $4 as you state then it is a no brainer. If they remain at current levels then it seems like too much to pay.

*Totally dependant on the Moss situation, if Moss is sigend then Stallworth is expendable, if Moss leaves then keeping Stallworth may make sense.

 

[ATippett56]

If we can't get those two resigned with upwards of $25M in cap space it won't be because of Stallworth - it will be because they wanted more than Bill believes they are worth. PS - lots of guys have physical tools, that's how they sucker GM's into drafting them. There is no guarantee any of them will be able to consistently convert them into a productive NFL career in case you hadn't noticed. Stallworth has now proven he can.

With the impending retirements of Bruschi and Seau, (quite possibly Vrabel and Harrison), the Patriots can ill afford to lose cornerback Asante Samuel with only one semi-competant cornerback on next year's roster prior to the 2008 NFL draft. Donte Stallworth is expendable while Asante Samuel is not.

 

[ATippett56]

If we can't get those two resigned with upwards of $25M in cap space?

Where's this $25 million in cap space? If the Patriots do not exercise options for Kelley Washington and Donte Stallworth, the Patriots will only have roughly $18 million salary cap space to sign free agents (hopefully Moss and Samuel) and their 2008 NFL draft picks.

http://www.patscap.com/futureyears.html

Besides, Donte Stallworth is not a number one wide receiver while Randy Moss most definitely is, as evident by their respective performances against the Indianapolis Colts.

 

[patchick]

Where's this $25 million in cap space? If the Patriots do not exercise options for Kelley Washington and Donte Stallworth, the Patriots will only have roughly $18 million salary cap space to sign free agents (hopefully Moss and Samuel) and their 2008 NFL draft picks.

http://www.patscap.com/futureyears.html

...and suppose the Pats do end up picking around #5 in the draft. That's $10 million/year territory.

It's not that they CAN'T sign both Moss and Stallworth. It's whether they want to devote that much of the cap to to the position.

 

[ATippett56]

...and suppose the Pats do end up picking around #5 in the draft. That's $10 million/year territory.

It's not that they CAN'T sign both Moss and Stallworth. It's whether they want to devote that much of the cap to to the position.

Thus leaving the Patriots with only one cornerback on the roster, Ellis Hobbs prior to the 2008 NFL Draft. No thanks, especially with the manner Ellis Hobbs has played cornerback this season. As I stated previously, the New England Patriots found out who the REAL wide receiver was against the Indianapolis Colts.

 

[BradyToMoss]

I'm fired up over Chad Jackson coming back. I'm so happy the Pats activated him, my fear was that they would IR him figuring that they're already loaded at WR.

Chad Jackson is a stud and he's put alot of work in, the results are going to show as soon as he gets out onto the field. Right now, I'm imaging a 4-wideout set with (Moss, Welker, Stallworth and CJackson) how crazy is that.

Welcome back #17, we know you have the talent, you're a stud, show us what you got man..........