Chad and Eddie Jackson activated; Ventrone released

[BradyToMoss]

I saw Jackson at the providence mall this past weekend. He is not small. Looked to be in great shape. But just to let you know he is not as "BIG" as you make it seem. He is listed at 6'1 215. He looks about 6'1 205.

Im not trying to insult him. But if you see him up close you are not blown away by his size at all. Not even close.

I'm looking at this picture, and he is big or are you telling me that the photo just inflates his biceps? You normally don't see WR's jacked up like this guy is. He has speed to burn and he can break tackles and take it to the house at any time. In limited PT last year, he caught that slant in the corner of the endzone at Buffalo. The endzone slant in NY for 6 and he busted through 2-3 defenders and took that swing pass and dove into the endzone for 6 in Minnesota. This kid has showed me what he can do. I'm really hoping BB puts him on the field.

BTW Danni, who was CJackson at the mall with?

 

[jays52]

Also probably isn't taking into account muscle density. The more conditioned you become, the more you max out your natural size. You will continue to get stronger and heavier, but not much bigger. The muscle just becomes much harder and more dense without much hypertrophy. Also, football type excersizes like plyometrics, olympic lifts, and heavy-low rep compound movements are not best for hypertophy. They are outstanding for building short to mid area explosive strength, also known as playing strength.

I think that Jackson would be a perfect example of this. If he's playing around 215 and 6 feet tall, that's one heck of a strong dude. Danny is also forgetting that he's likely playing between 4-6% bodyfat. Chest striations start showing at around 12%, and competition shape bodybuilders are between 2% and 5%. That means he's ALL muscle. Also, he's probably carrying the majority of that weight in his legs and back. You don't want to get unneccesarily big either as a wideout. You still want to be explosive and agile, and looking like David Boston won't help you with that.

 

[danny88]

I'm looking at this picture, and he is big or are you telling me that the photo just inflates his biceps? You normally don't see WR's jacked up like this guy is. He has speed to burn and he can break tackles and take it to the house at any time. In limited PT last year, he caught that slant in the corner of the endzone at Buffalo. The endzone slant in NY for 6 and he busted through 2-3 defenders and took that swing pass and dove into the endzone for 6 in Minnesota. This kid has showed me what he can do. I'm really hoping BB puts him on the field.

BTW Danni, who was CJackson at the mall with?

Im not saying he is inflated. Jackson is ripped. So in pictures he looks slighty bigger then he is in real life. Honest to god I was expecting this freak. he is not "small" but nothing what you hear on here. Just saying. I am not saying he is not in good shape. He looked very lean. he was wearing a tight fitted shirt.

He was with a guy with a bald head. No one I recognized.

 

[danny88]

Also probably isn't taking into account muscle density. The more conditioned you become, the more you max out your natural size. You will continue to get stronger and heavier, but not much bigger. The muscle just becomes much harder and more dense without much hypertrophy. Also, football type excersizes like plyometrics, olympic lifts, and heavy-low rep compound movements are not best for hypertophy. They are outstanding for building short to mid area explosive strength, also known as playing strength.

I think that Jackson would be a perfect example of this. If he's playing around 215 and 6 feet tall, that's one heck of a strong dude. Danny is also forgetting that he's likely playing between 4-6% bodyfat. Chest striations start showing at around 12%, and competition shape bodybuilders are between 2% and 5%. That means he's ALL muscle. Also, he's probably carrying the majority of that weight in his legs and back. You don't want to get unneccesarily big either as a wideout. You still want to be explosive and agile, and looking like David Boston won't help you with that.

Im not forgetting Chads condition at all. I accounted for his condition over and over in my posts. He is not 4 percent body fat BTW. I know a thing about muscle since I own and operate a personal training business. Actually while we are on the subject of bodybuilding one of my clients competes in the NPC currently. Jackson is an athlete and most likley natural at this point so the two do not apply. 4 percent body fat is extremely hard to achieve. Competitive bodybuilders hover in that area. Most use diuretics and or other chemical additives to achieve such a low bf. I would say chad was between 6 and 8 percent , which is ripped.

Jackson looked great. All I am saying is he is not this freak like you read about on here.

 

[mgteich]

Samuel is gone, period. We forced him to stay a year beyond the end of his contract. He has absolutely no interest in staying.

To consider Chad Jackson in the same breath at this time in their repective careers is silly at best. Let's have that discussion after the 2008 season.

If Samuel would stay, it is Colvin's extension that would free up the needed cap money.

What about cornerback Asante Samuel? Ellis Hobbs has played substandard cornerback this year and cornerback Randall Gay is an unrestricted free agent, as well. I'd rather lose Donte Stallworth than Asante Samuel considering wide receiver Chad Jackson has the same physical tools as Donte Stallworth.

I don't know why you want to create uncertainly at wide receiver. I like what we have, with Chad Jackson replacing Washington and Gaffney for 2008.

http://www.patscap.com/futureyears.html

 

[Remix 6]

I didn't say I think Ellis is a #1 CB, but I don't think he's "substandard" either, which was my point. You are somewhat correct about how NE used their CB's, but it doesn't eliminate the fact that Ellis has held his own against Reggie Wayne, Lee Evans, and other WR's. I'll put it this way, I think he's better than a number of other #2 CB's.

Samuel isn't going to ask for less after this season, since it proves his 2006 performance wasn't a fluke. Asante thinks he's worth at least Clements money, and he's not going to take less. Think about it, NE was offering him a pretty good amount but he turned it down so he could test free agency. Do you think he's going to change his mind now?

I'll say again, I don't expect Samuel to be on the 2008 roster, and at this point I think anyone expecting him to be a Patriots next season isn't thinking correctly. The guy wouldn't sign his Franchise Tender until NE promised not to franchise him next year, if they won 12 games or he played a certain amount of snaps.

Also, you're correct, some of that is the Safeties fault, and some of NE's passing yardage allowed is because of their scheme.

Hobbs is an above average #2 CB but he has a lot of holes in his game. i didnt say Samuel will want less. I said we'll give him a better offer closer to what he wants. We offered $7.5 per year. Clements made around $10 per year. i think we were around $1.5 million apart or jsut the structure of contract. I think Samuel knows he wont get $10 per year but he can get close to that. he didnt wanna test FA..he wants to be a Patriot and hes expressed that many times. He said we've been loyal to him..we stuck with him since being a 4th rounder..hes been through a lot of great things and loves it here.

Samuel doesnt want to get franchised because that would mean he doesnt get what he wants. No player wants a franchise tag..none. You want a contract with money, etc. I think the problem was how much guaranteed money we were offering. He wants over $8 mill per year with like $25-30 guaranteed. thats the problem

again..Samuel wants to be here..we want him here. We obviously think hes a great player or we wouldnt have franchised him.

look at the great CBs in game today
Bailey is on top..but how many guys are close to his caliber(although he has given up few catches this year..not as impressive as last). Samuel is close. Clements is close. There arent many corners that are consistently at a pro bowl level week in and week out, especially in playoffs where Samuel shines.

QB and CB are the hardest positions to find yourself a true star. Samuel is a star and we will give him more than we offered last year because hes done in 2 years in a row and because he is a playmaker.

He basically shut Chad Johnson down..CJ had like 65 yards but 20 of them came on 1 play when he stiff armed Hobbs. Owens was limited for most part until he caught it in the middle and Hobbs dove..missed and screwed up Samuel's angle. Lee Evans was against Samuel this year..shutdown. Chargers WRs? Non existent.

Samuel is the 2nd best corner in the game..last year he was "top 5" ..this year..not many corners have been consistent and some have fallen..including Champ Bailey but hes sitll my #1

oh and few posts above, your right about Chad..hes not 4% because hes not ripped..u dont see veins popping out like crazy and clear cut muscles. theres a huge difference between 4 and 6-8...hes around 6-8%. Branch was 6 i think.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Can we agree to disagree? Asante Samuel has played much better this season at the cornerback position than Ellis Hobbs. As for switching sides, I hardly ever see Champ Bailey switch sides.

Only caveat being Ellis Hobbs has played much better in his third year in the system than Asante Samuel did in his...2005. How quickly we forget, Asante couldn't have gotten a deal worth $7.8M in total that off season...

 

[BradyToMoss]

Im not forgetting Chads condition at all. I accounted for his condition over and over in my posts. He is not 4 percent body fat BTW. I know a thing about muscle since I own and operate a personal training business. Actually while we are on the subject of bodybuilding one of my clients competes in the NPC currently. Jackson is an athlete and most likley natural at this point so the two do not apply. 4 percent body fat is extremely hard to achieve. Competitive bodybuilders hover in that area. Most use diuretics and or other chemical additives to achieve such a low bf. I would say chad was between 6 and 8 percent , which is ripped.

Jackson looked great. All I am saying is he is not this freak like you read about on here.

That's all great info, thanks. Again, I can only go by what I see of the Chad Jackson photos and the guys is flat-out jacked-up, which I think by NFL standards really makes him more like TOwens. Muscle mass combined with speed which is a very dangerous combination. Telling you right now, once this guy officially gets the offense down and can show that he wants to mature and win, the sky is the limit for this kid. I cannot wait to see him back on the football field.

 

[sebman2112]

Hobbs is an above average #2 CB but he has a lot of holes in his game. i didnt say Samuel will want less. I said we'll give him a better offer closer to what he wants. We offered $7.5 per year. Clements made around $10 per year. i think we were around $1.5 million apart or jsut the structure of contract. I think Samuel knows he wont get $10 per year but he can get close to that. he didnt wanna test FA..he wants to be a Patriot and hes expressed that many times. He said we've been loyal to him..we stuck with him since being a 4th rounder..hes been through a lot of great things and loves it here.

Samuel doesnt want to get franchised because that would mean he doesnt get what he wants. No player wants a franchise tag..none. You want a contract with money, etc. I think the problem was how much guaranteed money we were offering. He wants over $8 mill per year with like $25-30 guaranteed. thats the problem

again..Samuel wants to be here..we want him here. We obviously think hes a great player or we wouldnt have franchised him.

look at the great CBs in game today
Bailey is on top..but how many guys are close to his caliber(although he has given up few catches this year..not as impressive as last). Samuel is close. Clements is close. There arent many corners that are consistently at a pro bowl level week in and week out, especially in playoffs where Samuel shines.

QB and CB are the hardest positions to find yourself a true star. Samuel is a star and we will give him more than we offered last year because hes done in 2 years in a row and because he is a playmaker.

He basically shut Chad Johnson down..CJ had like 65 yards but 20 of them came on 1 play when he stiff armed Hobbs. Owens was limited for most part until he caught it in the middle and Hobbs dove..missed and screwed up Samuel's angle. Lee Evans was against Samuel this year..shutdown. Chargers WRs? Non existent.

Samuel is the 2nd best corner in the game..last year he was "top 5" ..this year..not many corners have been consistent and some have fallen..including Champ Bailey but hes sitll my #1

oh and few posts above, your right about Chad..hes not 4% because hes not ripped..u dont see veins popping out like crazy and clear cut muscles. theres a huge difference between 4 and 6-8...hes around 6-8%. Branch was 6 i think.

Remix, Samuel want's 10M per, not 8M per, and the gauranteed money was a lot too. NE already offered him a good deal, and Samuel said it wasn't close to what he wanted, and seemed to feel insulted by the offer. I doubt Samuel will be a Patriot in 2008.

 

[RayClay]

I saw Jackson at the providence mall this past weekend. He is not small. Looked to be in great shape. But just to let you know he is not as "BIG" as you make it seem. He is listed at 6'1 215. He looks about 6'1 205.

Im not trying to insult him. But if you see him up close you are not blown away by his size at all. Not even close.

Do you work at a Carnival side show or something?

 

[Remix 6]

Remix, Samuel want's 10M per, not 8M per, and the gauranteed money was a lot too. NE already offered him a good deal, and Samuel said it wasn't close to what he wanted, and seemed to feel insulted by the offer. I doubt Samuel will be a Patriot in 2008.

i said OVER 8 mill. we'll see what happens. i dont know why everyone talks about the FA situation now when we have 9 games left?

 

[shakadave]

I'm looking at this picture, and he is big or are you telling me that the photo just inflates his biceps? You normally don't see WR's jacked up like this guy is.

I hate to say it, and so in fact I WON'T suggest that CJ is on steroids/HGH, causing him to be injury-prone.

 

[sebman2112]

I hate to say it, and so in fact I WON'T suggest that CJ is on steroids/HGH, causing him to be injury-prone.

Um, if Chad was on HGH he would be less likely to be injury prone.

 

[sebman2112]

i said OVER 8 mill. we'll see what happens. i dont know why everyone talks about the FA situation now when we have 9 games left?

Hopefully 10 games left

 

[Remix 6]

Hopefully 10 games left

thats what i meant :\