Cap Talk: How the he** are the redskins...

[old 55]

Here's the surprising thing, Merriweather signed for 2 years for $6MM. I can't imaging anyone signing Brandon for $3mm/yr. BB and his staff could coach him to be dependable, and he ended up being released. Lovie and his staff tried, and he being demoted and let go. Why would the Skins staff think that it will be any better with them. He the classic feast or famine safety who is more famine than feast.....and being "uncoachable" isn't a good thing.

Who know's. The talent is there. Maybe the 3rd time is the charm.

Coaches always think "I know I can fix that & turn the player around" or "I can use this players talent to get the most out him"
It's the nature of coaches. Call it vanity or whatever, but that's why knuckleheads with talent get multiple chances before they finally succeed in wasting it completely.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think that concept is primarily due to (a) us focusing on what any and every other team does (coveting every free agent; the grass is always greener on the other side), and (b) our forgetting about money that has already been spent. Let's compare the top ten cap numbers for the two teams (numbers in millions)

Patriots
$15.208 - Tom Brady
$9.515 - Wes Welker
$9.333 - Jerod Mayo
$8.608 - Vince Wilfork
$8.000 - Matt Light
$7.000 - Logan Mankins
$4.683 - Chad Ochocinco
$3.250 - Jeff Fanene (guesstimate)
$3.008 - Stephen Gostkowski
$2.267 - Rob Ninkovich


Redskins
$8.300 - DeAngelo Hall
$6.600 - Trent Williams
$6.450 - Barry Coefield
$6.317 - Santana Moss
$5.785 - Chris Cooley
$5.500 - Stephen Bowen
$5.334 - Josh Wilson
$5.000 - Jammal Brown
$4.700 - Pierre Garcon
$4.300 - Chris Chester

I'm guessing Josh Morgan's cap number will be about $2 million and Meriweather's about $3 million, which would put neither one in Washington's top ten. When you look at the amount allotted to the top six players rather than the top ten then it becomes easy to see why it is easier for a team like the Redskins to spend more freely.

It is ironic however, because the Patriots philosophy is to try and spend their money more evenly throughout the entire roster, while Washington on the other hand is committed to placing a disproportionate percentage of their money at the top of the roster. However, because the Patriots have better top tier players the opposite is true; the Pats have $57.664 million dedicated to their top six roster spots while the Redskins have only $38.452 million committed to their six most expensive players.

I get what you're trying to convey but you're not quite hitting the mark. The problems arise when you carry more than a handful of players on top tier deals to the point it impacts your ability to pay for quality players 1-53 including depth. The Pats are beginning to inch closer to the bad Indy model if you look at the top 5 players we are paying who are all on top tier deals at their position (not including Light who was on a 2 year $12M deal that doesn't ever hit the cap at $8M - he saw $7M on what was potentially a 1 year deal).


Like Pioli always said, you can only have so many of those players on those deals before you can't have many players on mid level deals. Then you go from having a band of brothers to having a half dozen highly recognizable lead singers fronting a patchwork backup band. We used to have just 2-3 players even on top 5 deals. Recently we have 3 players at top of the market deals (QB, LG, ILB) and a couple of more at top 5 numbers (WR, NT) and we're probably heading for a TE who sets the market and a TE in that market's top 5... That makes it much more difficult to assemble a remaining roster with 20+ players in the worth $2-5M range and forces you into a roster with more UDFA's and $1M fringe or aging veteran players...which is exactly what happened in Indy after their Superbowl. They fielded 19 first year players on their 53 man roster who had never taken a snap in the NFL plus another dozen or so jag holdovers making somewhere between minimum and a million because their roster was top heavy with guys making north of $6M...and a QB making top of the market money. That is when the draft becomes crucial for teams that don't have unlimited cash to spend over cap, and Polian screwed up on it increasingly as he attempted to draft for need he couldn't address in FA because they could't afford to.

The Redskins have long manipulated the cap by paying enormous sums of cash over cap to their mega signings who are often overpaid and sub elite to boot, which is the real way you get into cap hell absent an unlimited supply of cash either out of the owners pocket or via revenue stream... And his is the highest revenue stream in the league by more than double that of even the middle of the road teams. There is nothing wrong with doing that in and of itself from a cap accounting standpoint because the CBA allows unlimited cash spending on bonuses (ergo the cap is crap mantra) because basically it all hits the cap eventually and that's all that matters from a cap accounting standpoint. It just turns out that taking that approach to the extreme as he has doesn't equate to championship caliber team building and ends up an exercise in futile talent acquisition and collection. Snyder will always be able to sign more players with less cap because his fallback is he has the cash to do it. That is also why he will continue to trade away draft picks, he can afford to sign FA where he believes he's going to get more bang for his bucks. He just fails to grasp that in most cases there is a reason why the FA is available...

What he got penalized for this time was dumping his dead cap from his most recent years of bad signings into the uncapped year in an attempt to clear his books so he wouldn't necessarily have to spend cash over cap obscenely going forward to fit talent under a cap. What other owners knew was he could now double his talent acquisition as a result. League said it was a clear his intent was to circumvent the cap on a one time basis because he continued to use cash over cap structure before and after the dump. Lots of teams did a little dumping or absorbed a little more in frontloading in the uncapped year, but none did it to the extent he and Jerry did when they had never taken that aproach before or since. They were given 2 years to absorb the penalty, which in each case was simply the amout by which they attempted to circumvent the cap. Won't really alter anything from a standpoint of being able to sign whomever they want though because they still have ample cash to do what they always did...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

What he got penalized for this time was dumping his dead cap from his most recent years of bad signings into the uncapped year in an attempt to clear his books so he wouldn't necessarily have to spend cash over cap obscenely going forward to fit talent under a cap. What other owners knew was he could now double his talent acquisition as a result. League said it was a clear his intent was to circumvent the cap on a one time basis because he continued to use cash over cap structure before and after the dump. Lots of teams did a little dumping or absorbed a little more in frontloading in the uncapped year, but none did it to the extent he and Jerry did when they had never taken that aproach before or since. They were given 2 years to absorb the penalty, which in each case was simply the amout by which they attempted to circumvent the cap. Won't really alter anything from a standpoint of being able to sign whomever they want though because they still have ample cash to do what they always did...

Nice explanation Mo, but every time I think I understand this I get confused.

Why was there a special clause ex-post-facto inserted into the CBA that allowed the NY Jets to clear THEIR $10 million dead cap since by telepathy they had the foresight to cut their vets extra early before the later CBA instituted deadline?

Why something special for the Jets while raining hell over Dallas and Washington, not that I like either franchise or owner?

 

[shmessy]

I heard 28 mil for RG3 .....just seems amazing that they can sign so many guys and yet the Pats don't open the wallet for anyone. I know it is their style and recipe....but still interesting...

Awesome.

In the same week that the Patriots got a receiver who averaged over 70 catches per year the past 2 years catching balls from Kyle Orton, Tim Tebow and Sam Bradford, the Redskins sign "Big Bang Clock" for $3 million per year.

Dan Snyder = A Walking NFL Front Office Car Accident

 

[strongside]

I get what you're trying to convey but you're not quite hitting the mark. The problems arise when you carry more than a handful of players on top tier deals to the point it impacts your ability to pay for quality players 1-53 including depth. The Pats are beginning to inch closer to the bad Indy model if you look at the top 5 players we are paying who are all on top tier deals at their position (not including Light who was on a 2 year $12M deal that doesn't ever hit the cap at $8M - he saw $7M on what was potentially a 1 year deal).


Like Pioli always said, you can only have so many of those players on those deals before you can't have many players on mid level deals. Then you go from having a band of brothers to having a half dozen highly recognizable lead singers fronting a patchwork backup band. We used to have just 2-3 players even on top 5 deals. Recently we have 3 players at top of the market deals (QB, LG, ILB) and a couple of more at top 5 numbers (WR, NT) and we're probably heading for a TE who sets the market and a TE in that market's top 5... That makes it much more difficult to assemble a remaining roster with 20+ players in the worth $2-5M range and forces you into a roster with more UDFA's and $1M fringe or aging veteran players...which is exactly what happened in Indy after their Superbowl. They fielded 19 first year players on their 53 man roster who had never taken a snap in the NFL plus another dozen or so jag holdovers making somewhere between minimum and a million because their roster was top heavy with guys making north of $6M...and a QB making top of the market money. That is when the draft becomes crucial for teams that don't have unlimited cash to spend over cap, and Polian screwed up on it increasingly as he attempted to draft for need he couldn't address in FA because they could't afford to.

The Redskins have long manipulated the cap by paying enormous sums of cash over cap to their mega signings who are often overpaid and sub elite to boot, which is the real way you get into cap hell absent an unlimited supply of cash either out of the owners pocket or via revenue stream... And his is the highest revenue stream in the league by more than double that of even the middle of the road teams. There is nothing wrong with doing that in and of itself from a cap accounting standpoint because the CBA allows unlimited cash spending on bonuses (ergo the cap is crap mantra) because basically it all hits the cap eventually and that's all that matters from a cap accounting standpoint. It just turns out that taking that approach to the extreme as he has doesn't equate to championship caliber team building and ends up an exercise in futile talent acquisition and collection. Snyder will always be able to sign more players with less cap because his fallback is he has the cash to do it. That is also why he will continue to trade away draft picks, he can afford to sign FA where he believes he's going to get more bang for his bucks. He just fails to grasp that in most cases there is a reason why the FA is available...

What he got penalized for this time was dumping his dead cap from his most recent years of bad signings into the uncapped year in an attempt to clear his books so he wouldn't necessarily have to spend cash over cap obscenely going forward to fit talent under a cap. What other owners knew was he could now double his talent acquisition as a result. League said it was a clear his intent was to circumvent the cap on a one time basis because he continued to use cash over cap structure before and after the dump. Lots of teams did a little dumping or absorbed a little more in frontloading in the uncapped year, but none did it to the extent he and Jerry did when they had never taken that aproach before or since. They were given 2 years to absorb the penalty, which in each case was simply the amout by which they attempted to circumvent the cap. Won't really alter anything from a standpoint of being able to sign whomever they want though because they still have ample cash to do what they always did...

Well done and interesting breakdown imo. I think the cap penalty wash and Dal got was ridiculous. Its like the state removing speed limits but ticketing moterists for going too fast.

 

[Rusty Coupe]

Another example of a team with poor use of roster management as it relates to dollars.

Simply, how is it that a team without any foundational superstar, without a franchise quarterback, without any history for making the playoffs or even reaching .500 the past three years could be so spent against the cap?

The Pittsburgh Steelers are just about maxed out against the cap. The Texans, Saints, Falcons, Giants and Lions all had less space than Miami when the league year began this week.

But those teams are good.

They have stars that make plays and get paid like it.

How is it the Dolphins, bereft of game-changers, could be relatively so cap poor?

That’s the kind of stuff that should raise eyebrows. That, much more than a failed Hail Mary to Peyton Manning, is the kind of situation that should cause concern.

Miami Dolphins front office must learn to counterpunch - Armando Salguero - MiamiHerald.com

 

[Ring 6]

Nice explanation Mo, but every time I think I understand this I get confused.

Why was there a special clause ex-post-facto inserted into the CBA that allowed the NY Jets to clear THEIR $10 million dead cap since by telepathy they had the foresight to cut their vets extra early before the later CBA instituted deadline?

Why something special for the Jets while raining hell over Dallas and Washington, not that I like either franchise or owner?

I think the big difference is that the Cowboys and Redskins purposely manipulated contracts to push future money into 2010, such as pretending a signing bonus was salary.
While the new CBA included a rule that it wouldn't carry forward dead money on players cut between the end of the league year and the start of the lockout.
They aren't really consistent with each other, but they are different issues.

 

[Ivan]

I heard on the radio today that someone reported that the league have found that the contract structure of some of the deals they did this week violate cap rules and could be fined draft picks.

In that case the joke is on the league because the Redskins don't have any draft picks, ever.

 

[Ivan]

I heard 28 mil for RG3 .....just seems amazing that they can sign so many guys and yet the Pats don't open the wallet for anyone. I know it is their style and recipe....but still interesting...

And they got The Party Starter for a mere 3 million a year.


Now that's money well spent.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I think the big difference is that the Cowboys and Redskins purposely manipulated contracts to push future money into 2010, such as pretending a signing bonus was salary.
While the new CBA included a rule that it wouldn't carry forward dead money on players cut between the end of the league year and the start of the lockout.
They aren't really consistent with each other, but they are different issues.

I agree with that assessment.

My question is why did the CBA include that "rule" forgiving dead cap money for cuts in that window? The rule was included after these dates had passed. How did a few teams (read Jets) but not others 'know' to use this window before it existed thereby saving themselves from impending disaster? I don't think it's crazy to postulate that they got special treatment by an advance leak from the league office. Stuff has leaked from there in the past...those Spygate videos to Fox for example.

 

[Urgent]

One note is that the Redskins had $13mm to push forward from 2011.
As of March 11, they were listed with $31mm in cap space.
Team-by-team cap space, as of March 11 | ProFootballTalk

Even with a penalty, they had a lot of space.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I agree with that assessment.

My question is why did the CBA include that "rule" forgiving dead cap money for cuts in that window? The rule was included after these dates had passed. How did a few teams (read Jets) but not others 'know' to use this window before it existed thereby saving themselves from impending disaster? I don't think it's crazy to postulate that they got special treatment by an advance leak from the league office. Stuff has leaked from there in the past...those Spygate videos to Fox for example.

It was more than a few teams, and the JETS knew it was on the table because it apparently it had been discussed early on and they and a handful of teams rolled the dice that it would be granted (while others chose not to) which it was as a little nod to the NFLPA on the flat cap. Just like a couple of teams rolled the dice that the cap accounting rules being instated as they always were wouldn't...and came up craps. We weren't one of those teams, either. We don't tend to roll the dice when it comes to the cap. Others always will in order to rationalize doing what they feel pressured to do because they are operating in windows mode...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

OK. Seems reasonable. I think I need to be done with that issue.