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[DaBruinz]

Thanks, Mo. It's appreciated.

 

[The Scrizz]

I found another link to the transition rules for 2011 that ESPN had up but later removed. It makes no mention of any additional cap relief beyond the $3M (which becomes $1.5M in 2012). It does mention that the performance program will not be available in 2011.

http://bizoffootball.com/docs/Article 11 2011 Transition Rules-1.pdf

Interestingly, the 'Jet Clause' for dead money has apparently been revised.

It now says:

"(f) Acceleration For Preexisting Contracts and Player Contracts entered into after July 25th, 2011 and before the end of the 2011 League Year, any required signing bonus acceleration after the effective date of this Agreement and before the end of the 2011 League Year shall be charged to Team Salary for the 2012 League Year."

There is no longer any mention of March 11th and of that money not having to be paid. The Jets are back in the same boat with everybody else.

My take? The owners aren't as stupid as Goodell hoped. He tried to get his guys taken care of, but alas, it didn't work.

So it looks like every team saves the full cap hit for this season when releasing players which makes a Ty Warren release make a lot more sense.

It also means we saved around another $5.7 million in addition to what is being reported by Miguel (noted as 2011 cap hit in his dead money section). Which would put us roughly 15 million under. More than enough to sign some really good players.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Interestingly, the 'Jet Clause' for dead money has apparently been revised. It now says: "(f) Acceleration For Preexisting Contracts and Player Contracts entered into after July 25th, 2011 and before the end of the 2011 League Year, any required signing bonus acceleration after the effective date of this Agreement and before the end of the 2011 League Year shall be charged to Team Salary for the 2012 League Year." There is no longer any mention of March 11th and of that money not having to be paid. The Jets are back in the same boat with everybody else. My take? The owners aren't as stupid as Goodell hoped. He tried to get his guys taken care of, but alas, it didn't work. So it looks like every team saves the full cap hit for this season when releasing players which makes a Ty Warren release make a lot more sense. It also means we saved around another $5.7 million in addition to what is being reported by Miguel (noted as 2011 cap hit in his dead money section). Which would put us roughly 15 million under. More than enough to sign some really good players.

You are reading the wrong section.

 

[The Scrizz]

You are reading the wrong section.

No I was simply reading the entire document and saw that the cap Acceleration section has changed completely.

I wasn't commenting on the 3 Million credits or whatever, but on what appears to be a completely different set of rules for 'dead money' than was previously thought to have existed.

 

[Miguel]

Re: Anyone have a ballpark on our cap number?

Miguel - When will you be updating the dead money section with the correct numbers for Ty Warren?

Will you also be adding Ryan Coulson, Alge Crumpler and Nick Kaczur to the dead money section?

Thanks in advance...

Yes, will add Ryan Coulson once I know the split salary amount for a rookie.

Split salary - there is a provision in CBA that allows teams to pay players less than the rookie minimum of $375,000 if the player gets injured. I am presuming that Coulson signed such a contract.

 

[Miguel]

Re: Anyone have a ballpark on our cap number?

I think the way it's being couched is very confusing (no dead cap in 2011...). Didn't the old June 1 rule call for basically a split of any remaining dead cap (including current years proration) over two years including the current year? This seems to be saying current proration remains (ergo it's dead cap) and all remaining proration is taken in 2012 if I read you right.

Yes, that's my interpretation of the transition rules.

It appears that the media did not even read the offseason rules portion. Players released after 7/24 are getting that money.

 

[patfanken]

OK Miguel, But for the lazy but interested. WHAT'S the NUMBER! With your great insight and knowledge, what's YOUR best guess on how much cap room the Pats have today? I know that few people on the planet actually KNOW what all the new rules mean, but all I'm asking an educated guess that's better than the likes of John Clayton.

Inquiring minds what to know.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

OK Miguel, But for the lazy but interested. WHAT'S the NUMBER! With your great insight and knowledge, what's YOUR best guess on how much cap room the Pats have today? I know that few people on the planet actually KNOW what all the new rules mean, but all I'm asking an educated guess that's better than the likes of John Clayton.

Inquiring minds what to know.

Like with the hard sciences such as physics any "number" at this date needs error bars, e.g.

$10M +1M/-2M

 

[The Scrizz]

Re: Anyone have a ballpark on our cap number?

Yes, that's my interpretation of the transition rules.

It appears that the media did not even read the offseason rules portion. Players released after 7/24 are getting that money.

So Miguel, do you mean that you are interpreting the below as the same June 1st rules where the money is split between this year and next which is what your page currently shows?

(f) Acceleration For Preexisting Contracts and Player Contracts entered into after July 25th, 2011 and before the end of the 2011 League Year, any required signing bonus acceleration after the effective date of this Agreement and before the end of the 2011 League Year shall be charged to Team Salary for the 2012 League Year."

I read it as any dead money for signing bonus acceleration from contracts signed before or after the agreement all gets shifted to 2012.

 

[mgteich]

There will be many changes between now and the first day of the league year when all need to under the cap, and when cap numbers actually mean something.

For example, I expect to see the contracts of both Ochocinco and Haynsworth restructured, that is if Haynsworth get past the first few days of camp.

Since the rookies are being signed early relative to the start of the league year, it would seem that the patriots would want to move earlier rather than later if they are going to make a deal with Mankins.

 

[Miguel]

OK Miguel, But for the lazy but interested. WHAT'S the NUMBER! With your great insight and knowledge, what's YOUR best guess on how much cap room the Pats have today? I know that few people on the planet actually KNOW what all the new rules mean, but all I'm asking an educated guess that's better than the likes of John Clayton.

Inquiring minds what to know.

Shameless plug for Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2011 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

 

[Miguel]

Like with the hard sciences such as physics any "number" at this date needs error bars, e.g.

$10M +1M/-2M

Between $8 and $10M is my guesstimate. It is more likely that my numbers understate rather than overstate the Pats' cap commitments. That is, I have the Pats' cap commitment as $110 million. I think that it is far more likely that the Pats' current cap commitment is $112 million, rather than $108 million.

 

[Miguel]

Re: Anyone have a ballpark on our cap number?

So Miguel, do you mean that you are interpreting the below as the same June 1st rules where the money is split between this year and next which is what your page currently shows?

(f) Acceleration For Preexisting Contracts and Player Contracts entered into after July 25th, 2011 and before the end of the 2011 League Year, any required signing bonus acceleration after the effective date of this Agreement and before the end of the 2011 League Year shall be charged to Team Salary for the 2012 League Year."

I read it as any dead money for signing bonus acceleration from contracts signed before or after the agreement all gets shifted to 2012.

I am reading it the same way. Since 2011 signing bonus proration already counts against the cap, it can not be accelerated into 2011.

 

[mgteich]

- a quick question

Wouldn't it be reasonable to include the $3.5M veteran allowance in the salary cap, or at least in the total money that we have available without borrowing from the future? As with other cap money, if we don't need it we won't use it. But it seems available at any time.

Shameless plug for Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2011 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

 

[DaBruinz]

Shameless plug for Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2011 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

You can do as many Shameless plugs for your site as you want.

As I have said before... Often immitated, but never duplicated. Your site is the tops..

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No I was simply reading the entire document and saw that the cap Acceleration section has changed completely.

I wasn't commenting on the 3 Million credits or whatever, but on what appears to be a completely different set of rules for 'dead money' than was previously thought to have existed.

You need to read 5 (b) (i). That is the section that deals with contracts terminated before March 11, 2011.

The section you are referencing deals with pre existing contracts not yet terminated (all of the guys cut this week and going forward), and it appears to say that if terminated after July 25th they will only have acceleration into 2012. But what that seems to mean is that current amortization will remain in the current year (2011) if the contract is terminated and all remaining amortization will accelerate into 2012. For a player like TBC it makes no difference since he had $4M in dead cap and just 2 years remaining ergo $2M each year. For Warren it makes a difference because he had 3 years remaining and his dead cap will now be charged with the amount that counted in 2011 counting and the remaining 2 years worth accelerating into 2012.

What this doesn't do is compensate for the deal those who cut players in March got...dead cap forgiveness for contracts terminated prior to March 11.

 

[The Scrizz]

You need to read 5 (b) (i). That is the section that deals with contracts terminated before March 11, 2011.

The section you are referencing deals with pre existing contracts not yet terminated (all of the guys cut this week and going forward), and it appears to say that if terminated after July 25th they will only have acceleration into 2012. But what that seems to mean is that current amortization will remain in the current year (2011) if the contract is terminated and all remaining amortization will accelerate into 2012. For a player like TBC it makes no difference since he had $4M in dead cap and just 2 years remaining ergo $2M each year. For Warren it makes a difference because he had 3 years remaining and his dead cap will now be charged with the amount that counted in 2011 counting and the remaining 2 years worth accelerating into 2012.

What this doesn't do is compensate for the deal those who cut players in March got...dead cap forgiveness for contracts terminated prior to March 11.

I got you. God forbid someone releases a sensible reading of this mess. Thanks.

 

[crowell33]

$8 million ( +/- $2 mil ) with 3 rookies left to sign. Miguel mentioned also:

Twitter

 

[mgteich]

plus a $3.5M veteran allowance plus whatever we gain from Ocho's restructure.

$8 million ( +/- $2 mil ) with 3 rookies left to sign. Miguel mentioned also:

Twitter

 

[crowell33]

plus a $3.5M veteran allowance plus whatever we gain from Ocho's restructure.

Nice. Totally forgot about the $3.5 mil.............hopefully it goes towards Light