Cap# for 2024: $255.4 million (!)

[DaBruinz]

I wouldn’t pay Onwenu 20 million, I don’t think he’s elite, and I have heard rumblings that he doesn’t fit the blocking scheme Van Pelt runs.

Onwenu isn't an ELITE Tackle, but he's an ELITE OG. What rumors? Care to cite them?

 

[DaBruinz]

Smith only cost the Cowboys 6 million last year.

That's because he was coming off an injury and missed 4 games.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Agree on this. There's not only Smith at LT but Eluemunor at RT (swing T) that could serve as bridge guys while we draft their replacements. We can probably get them both for under the $21M tag for Onwenu. Then draft Guyton by moving up as you said.

I'm not against signing great defensive players in FAcy but looking at our current cap spending, the offense is woefully under spent (O is 56% of the D cap).

View attachment 56707

Those salary numbers right there show how much a certain GM undervalued the Patriots offense and completely crippled it by 2023.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Ok so our cap space is 100m if we cut JC Jackson. I don't see us keeping Jackson. So where are we spending our 100 million dollars?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Yes, that's pretty much what I was saying, as opposed to what the poster said which was they should solve the OT and WR problem with big contracts.

So, which OT would you go after as a middling solution? Here's one ranked list from the internets:

1) Mike Onwenu
2) Jonah Williams
3) Tyron Smith
4) Mehki Becton
5) Trent Brown
6) Donovan Smith
7) Yosh Nijman
8) George Fant
9) Jermaine Eluemunor
10) Josh Jones

Is Becton a steal? 24 years old. 1st round pick. Lots of injuries. Needs an attitude change. A bridge contract on low $$s for 2 years?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Onwenu isn't an ELITE Tackle, but he's an ELITE OG. What rumors? Care to cite them?

That might be your opinion of his skillset. But his agent is obviously going to market him as a right tackle because that bumps up the value of his potential salary into the 15m-20m dollar range.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I don't think they'll be able to agree, especially now that the cap went up another 30M. If he wants to stay for 56/4 then fine. Even at 15 apy would be ok. He's probably looking for 18-20 apy.

Most projections for cap spending were based on a roughly $240M cap, so about half of that $30M was baked in already. In any case, the Patriots must spend money this year; it's the start of a new three-year cycle, and they are far below the 90% minimum (though, in their defense, most teams are right now, just not as much).

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Agree. The biggest thing is that everything we were used to from drafting trade strategies and player grade evaluations are out the window. There is no Patriots player profile as we knew it.

I wonder how @BaconGrundleCandy will take this into account, as he looked at Pats player profiles in his analysis.

Ill change accordingly. For example GB and us have typically looked at OL very similar. I always looked at their preferences for that position. If you're looking for to make a real switch to an OZ rush attack you'll need WR that can block and at least one that can dig out along the line. Everyone has a type and I'll narrow down what I think Wolf and Mayo will look for.

Like I've mentioned Payton Wilson for years now. Athletic maniac LB former wrestler and lacrosse player. He'll be on my list.

I've been preparing

 

[Uptown]

 

[1960Pats]

Those salary numbers right there show how much a certain GM undervalued the Patriots offense and completely crippled it by 2023.

I remember seeing Tom Curran and Phil Perry discuss the difference between money spent on defense vs offense. There's a substantial difference.

 

[Ivan]

Onwenu isn't an ELITE Tackle, but he's an ELITE OG. What rumors? Care to cite them?

That's because he was coming off an injury and missed 4 games.

The comment about Onwenu not fitting the profile for WC blocking schemes was in one of the Van Pelt articles, but I’m not sure which one, and as such I put it as rumor and not a fact.

Smith was coming off an injury but he’s still worth taking a shot at.

I like Onwenu but I would rather have Sow at OG and use that 20 million elsewhere.

 

[Ivan]

Onwenu isn't an ELITE Tackle, but he's an ELITE OG. What rumors? Care to cite them?

Here’s the article

Patience will be key for the Patriots’ offensive line this season​

Related: Why fans should be optimistic about the Patriots offense

Here’s the quote:

Beyond continuity issues, Onwenu frankly is not a great fit in an outside zone scheme. He is an impressive athlete for measuring at 6-foot-3 and 350 pounds, and one of the Patriots’ best players let alone linemen, but he is a better puller than reach blocker.



Whether he’s right or not this is what I saw, and it makes sense, as they tried to change their blocking scheme under Patricia, and gave up on it almost immediately. I won’t be surprised to see them changing the profiles of the OL they draft the next few years.

 

[Real fan 02]

This is easily the most interesting offseason to me in years and years. I’m looking forward to seeing all of the decisions they have to make in free agency and the draft, and the construction of their new offense.

Absolutely, as we know there was always one constant at the QB position. Wich in turn made off-season needs more of a replenishment than a full all out construction as you perfectly mentioned. I'm very interested myself as well

 

[DaBruinz]

Here’s the article

Patience will be key for the Patriots’ offensive line this season​

Related: Why fans should be optimistic about the Patriots offense

Here’s the quote:

Beyond continuity issues, Onwenu frankly is not a great fit in an outside zone scheme. He is an impressive athlete for measuring at 6-foot-3 and 350 pounds, and one of the Patriots’ best players let alone linemen, but he is a better puller than reach blocker.



Whether he’s right or not this is what I saw, and it makes sense, as they tried to change their blocking scheme under Patricia, and gave up on it almost immediately. I won’t be surprised to see them changing the profiles of the OL they draft the next few years.

You're offering an article from 2 years ago that has ZERO mention of Van Pelt an the version of the West Coast that he runs as "proof" that Onwenu isn't a fit for the "West Coast Offense" despite them saying "Outside Zone Scheme" in the article.

I could very well be wrong, but my understanding is that Van Pelt runs more of the Bill Walsh West Coast Offense. Meaning that spread things out with quicker horizontal passing to open up the A Gap Runs for the Running Backs. You still need POWER to do that. Onwenu is plenty mobile and more than has the ability to make reach blocks to his outside shoulder going either direction. Despite him being 350lbs. Now, maybe I'm wrong and they don't seem him as a fit. But if he's not a fit, then Sow and Mafi aren't going to be fits either. And you just wiped out your entire contingent of OGs with the exception of Jake Andrews and Cole Strange. I'm not buying what you're selling there.

Your mention of the change under Patricia isn't entirely accurate. They weren't trying to change the WHOLE blocking scheme. They were trying to ADD specific groups of plays that used the Outside Zone that Shanahan ran. But, let's remember that the Pats used 5 different RTs that year. Attempting to blame the situation on Onwenu when we know, for a fact, that Patricia was a large part of the problem with his inability to learn the Outside Zone properly seems like your scape-goating. Remember that Trent Brown and Bourne had actually PLAYED in the Shanahan Outside Zone System and Patricia benched Bourne because Bourne supposedly spoke out about Patricia's issues with it.

 

[DaBruinz]

The comment about Onwenu not fitting the profile for WC blocking schemes was in one of the Van Pelt articles, but I’m not sure which one, and as such I put it as rumor and not a fact.

Smith was coming off an injury but he’s still worth taking a shot at.

I like Onwenu but I would rather have Sow at OG and use that 20 million elsewhere.

How is a guy that hasn't played a full season in 8 seasons "worth a shot"?

As for your preference of Sow over Onwenu.. That's like saying you're content with a base model mustang over a Shelby GT 500. Not buying what your selling man..

Sow is OK at OG, but he's not anywhere close to an ALL-PRO.
5 sacks, 4 hits, 18 hurries (772 snaps) v 1 sack, 2 hits, 11 hurries. (1044 snaps)

6.76 sacks, 5.49 hits, 24 hurries v 1 sack, 2 hits, 11 hurries.

You keep throwing around the $20M number, but you're forgetting how the cap works. They could pay Onwenu 40M in guarantees between SB and guaranteed salary and still only have his cap hit be under 10M for this year while paying him an AAV of $20M over 4.

 

[venecol]

As for your preference of Sow over Onwenu.. That's like saying you're content with a base model mustang over a Shelby GT 500. Not buying what your selling man..

Sow is OK at OG, but he's not anywhere close to an ALL-PRO.

Since when is Onwenu an AP?

You keep throwing around the $20M number, but you're forgetting how the cap works. They could pay Onwenu 40M in guarantees between SB and guaranteed salary and still only have his cap hit be under 10M for this year while paying him an AAV of $20M over 4.

The 21M refers to the franchise tag. You can't spread it since it's guaranteed for 1 season. Patriots aren't signing him for $20M APY. Come on man.

 

[Ivan]

How is a guy that hasn't played a full season in 8 seasons "worth a shot"?

As for your preference of Sow over Onwenu.. That's like saying you're content with a base model mustang over a Shelby GT 500. Not buying what your selling man..

Sow is OK at OG, but he's not anywhere close to an ALL-PRO.
5 sacks, 4 hits, 18 hurries (772 snaps) v 1 sack, 2 hits, 11 hurries. (1044 snaps)

6.76 sacks, 5.49 hits, 24 hurries v 1 sack, 2 hits, 11 hurries.

You keep throwing around the $20M number, but you're forgetting how the cap works. They could pay Onwenu 40M in guarantees between SB and guaranteed salary and still only have his cap hit be under 10M for this year while paying him an AAV of $20M over 4.

You asked for the report that Onwenu might not fit VannPelt’s blocking scheme and I gave it to you. And I don’t like Sow over Onwenu, I’m just willing to use a tag for 20 million on Onwenu, he’s not an elite player and I wouldn’t pay him like one. I’d give Christian Wilkins 20 million, but I wouldn’t give it to Onwenu. If you think you have better ways to rebuild this team feel free to put them out there, no ones stopping you.

 

[Ivan]

You're offering an article from 2 years ago that has ZERO mention of Van Pelt an the version of the West Coast that he runs as "proof" that Onwenu isn't a fit for the "West Coast Offense" despite them saying "Outside Zone Scheme" in the article.

I could very well be wrong, but my understanding is that Van Pelt runs more of the Bill Walsh West Coast Offense. Meaning that spread things out with quicker horizontal passing to open up the A Gap Runs for the Running Backs. You still need POWER to do that. Onwenu is plenty mobile and more than has the ability to make reach blocks to his outside shoulder going either direction. Despite him being 350lbs. Now, maybe I'm wrong and they don't seem him as a fit. But if he's not a fit, then Sow and Mafi aren't going to be fits either. And you just wiped out your entire contingent of OGs with the exception of Jake Andrews and Cole Strange. I'm not buying what you're selling there.

Your mention of the change under Patricia isn't entirely accurate. They weren't trying to change the WHOLE blocking scheme. They were trying to ADD specific groups of plays that used the Outside Zone that Shanahan ran. But, let's remember that the Pats used 5 different RTs that year. Attempting to blame the situation on Onwenu when we know, for a fact, that Patricia was a large part of the problem with his inability to learn the Outside Zone properly seems like your scape-goating. Remember that Trent Brown and Bourne had actually PLAYED in the Shanahan Outside Zone System and Patricia benched Bourne because Bourne supposedly spoke out about Patricia's issues with it.

2 years ago as when they tried that change and ended up throwing it out.

 

[slash83]

Crazy thing is along with this year, they have to go big in free agency in 25 and 26 just to meet the minimum CBA requirements for cash spending.

 

[Wozzy]

Here’s the article

Patience will be key for the Patriots’ offensive line this season​

Related: Why fans should be optimistic about the Patriots offense

Here’s the quote:

Beyond continuity issues, Onwenu frankly is not a great fit in an outside zone scheme. He is an impressive athlete for measuring at 6-foot-3 and 350 pounds, and one of the Patriots’ best players let alone linemen, but he is a better puller than reach blocker.

Whether he’s right or not this is what I saw, and it makes sense, as they tried to change their blocking scheme under Patricia, and gave up on it almost immediately. I won’t be surprised to see them changing the profiles of the OL they draft the next few years.

Yeah I don’t get this whole “not a scheme fit” narrative. Athletic lineman can play any scheme, and zone is easier.

The easiest fix in the world for the team is to re-sign Onwenu, plug him in a RT and find a left tackle in the draft.

That will make it so 3 out of 5 lineman are playing on rookie contracts and the unit will be really cost effective despite paying Michael a bag.