Can the kicker be offsides?

[Spiral]

On SD's onside kick, Kris Brown's plant foot clearly landed about a foot in front of the ball before he kicked it. He needed to do this in order to top the ball to the right side. Why isn't this offsides? And if it is, the refs missed it twice, since the play was reviewed.

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

I assume not because they most likely would have called it if it was. I think because he was back behind the ball before it was kicked it was legal.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

On SD's onside kick, Kris Brown's plant foot clearly landed about a foot in front of the ball before he kicked it. He needed to do this in order to top the ball to the right side. Why isn't this offsides? And if it is, the refs missed it twice, since the play was reviewed.

Have you ever kicked a football? It would be almost impossible to keep the plant foot behind the football and have an effective kick, so I doubt there is any rule regarding the position of the kicker relative to the ball, only the other players.

 

[Batman]

After the referee's whistle, prior to a free kick, all kicking team players must be inbounds and behind the ball when it is kicked. The holder of the kick, if he is necessary, may be beyond the line. The kicker may be beyond the line, with his plant foot, but his kicking foot may not be beyond the line until the ball is actually kicked. What you describe is perfectly legal. His plant foot was beyond the line, but his kicking foot was not.

Yes he can but not with the plant foot

 

[Rossmci90]

Have you ever kicked a football? It would be almost impossible to keep the plant foot behind the football and have an effective kick, so I doubt there is any rule regarding the position of the kicker relative to the ball, only the other players.

It depends of the type of kick, for a long kick like a normal kick off you probably want your plant foot to be behind or level with the ball. For an onside you definitely want it to be ahead.

 

[BB4PRez]

I have a somewhat related question (and don't have enough posts to start a thread). It looked to me that even though Brown kicked the ball high it never bounced but instead looked like short pop up of a kick.

Shouldn't the Pats have simply signaled for a fair catch on a kick like that ? Maybe I am wrong and the kick bounced once and went up but it didn't look that way from the replays I saw. The Pats clearly need work on thier onsides kick defense and this could impact the kick return in general as my guess is the Pats players have been headed back a little quick and San Diego picked up on that.

 

[Dufflebagz]

I have a somewhat related question (and don't have enough posts to start a thread). It looked to me that even though Brown kicked the ball high it never bounced but instead looked like short pop up of a kick.

Shouldn't the Pats have simply signaled for a fair catch on a kick like that ? Maybe I am wrong and the kick bounced once and went up but it didn't look that way from the replays I saw. The Pats clearly need work on thier onsides kick defense and this could impact the kick return in general as my guess is the Pats players have been headed back a little quick and San Diego picked up on that.

It bounced, he sent the ball straight into the ground.

 

[jmt57]

Former NFL referee Jerry Markbreit answers this question:

Jerry Markbreit's answers - chicagotribune.com

Q: Can a kicker be offsides on a kickoff? Near the end of this weekend's Packers-Vikings game, the Packers attempted an onside kick during which the (right-footed) kicker approached the ball from the left at an angle almost parallel to the 30-yard line. Before touching the ball, he planted his left foot across the 30-yard line. Isn't that offsides? -- Matt M., Evanston

A: Here is the rule regarding offsides on the kickoff. After the referee's whistle, prior to a free kick, all kicking team players must be inbounds and behind the ball when it is kicked. The holder of the kick, if he is necessary, may be beyond the line. The kicker may be beyond the line, with his plant foot, but his kicking foot may not be beyond the line until the ball is actually kicked. What you describe is perfectly legal. His plant foot was beyond the line, but his kicking foot was not.

To me it doesn't make sense to insist a kicker's plant foot is behind the football. If that was considered offsides, I think we would have offsides on nearly every kick, regardless of whether it is a normal kickoff or an onside kick. If refs started calling offsides on the kicker's plant foot then teams would have to tee the ball up a few inches behind the 30-yard line to avoid a penalty.

 

[resdubwhite]

I
Shouldn't the Pats have simply signaled for a fair catch on a kick like that ? .

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. You have to be able to get possession to call the Fair catch on a kick off. Its not like a punt where you don't have to have possession.

 

[jmt57]

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. You have to be able to get possession to call the Fair catch on a kick off. Its not like a punt where you don't have to have possession.

Even though it does not make sense when you compare the rules of recovering a punt to recovering a kickoff, I have seen it done. It's very rare on a kick traveling only ten yards, but I have seen a fair catch called when kickers tried to pooch one beyond the first line of opposing players in an attempt to recover twenty or so yards downfield. That's part of why you see kickers drive the ball into the ground rather than just trying to loft a 'jump ball' near the sideline.

The rules regarding a fair catch apply to any type of kick (i.e., kickoff or punt.)

NFL Rules Digest: Fair Catch

 

[unoriginal]

On a related question, does anyone know if the center is offsides if he has part of his body in the neutral zone before the snap? Seems to me that should be illegal.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. You have to be able to get possession to call the Fair catch on a kick off. Its not like a punt where you don't have to have possession.

The fair catch rules for both are the same; the ball has to be in flight, i.e. has to have crossed the "line of scrimmage" and still be in the air. Kickers bounce onside kicks against the ground specifically to invalidate any fair catch attempts.

 

[jmt57]

On a related question, does anyone know if the center is offsides if he has part of his body in the neutral zone before the snap? Seems to me that should be illegal.

I would presume that similar to the exception for the kicker's plant foot, that there is also some type of exception for the center. If nothing else, it makes sense for safety reasons; he'd have to be so off balance to snap the ball there's no way he could protect himself after the snap if he had to keep his entire body behind the ball.

 

[BB4PRez]

On a related question, does anyone know if the center is offsides if he has part of his body in the neutral zone before the snap? Seems to me that should be illegal.



The fair catch rules for both are the same; the ball has to be in flight, i.e. has to have crossed the "line of scrimmage" and still be in the air. Kickers bounce onside kicks against the ground specifically to invalidate any fair catch attempts.

I am pretty sure the fair catch rules apply - I think I have seen it called on an onside kick before. Here, I still am not positive that the kick did not bounce, maybe it did but it didn't look that way to me. If it didn't bounce I am surprised that the Pats didn't call for it. Usually a BB team knows the rules much better than the other teams. I was surprised that this did not come up as a topic -

 

[unoriginal]

I would presume that similar to the exception for the kicker's plant foot, that there is also some type of exception for the center. If nothing else, it makes sense for safety reasons; he'd have to be so off balance to snap the ball there's no way he could protect himself after the snap if he had to keep his entire body behind the ball.

You're thinking too hard on this one. It's impossible for a center to snap the ball unless he has at least an arm in the netural zone.

Unless he's Uri Geller.

 

[jmt57]

You're thinking too hard on this one. It's impossible for a center to snap the ball unless he has at least an arm in the netural zone.

Unless he's Uri Geller.

Ha ha, yeah, you're right. I was just thinking of some way of getting his head/helmet behind the ball and had completely forgotten about his hand and arm being in the neutral zone.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Even though it does not make sense when you compare the rules of recovering a punt to recovering a kickoff, I have seen it done. It's very rare on a kick traveling only ten yards, but I have seen a fair catch called when kickers tried to pooch one beyond the first line of opposing players in an attempt to recover twenty or so yards downfield. That's part of why you see kickers drive the ball into the ground rather than just trying to loft a 'jump ball' near the sideline.

The rules regarding a fair catch apply to any type of kick (i.e., kickoff or punt.)

NFL Rules Digest: Fair Catch

I'll take your word for it that the fair catch rules apply to any type of kick. But, it isn't logical that they apply on a kickoff that has gone more than ten yards. Such a kick results in a free ball that either team can claim. But, you are right.