Can someone sell me on Matt Light at LT?

[Patspsycho]

I can't believe people are coming to this guy's defense. He literally stands there slack jawed whilst his QB is being pounded into the dirt. At times, (Not all the time), he is little more than a human turnstile.

And what proof do you have to back this rhetoric up?

 

[LeonPowe]

Yeah, Kontradiction and Klinefan probably should stop posting

 

[BennyBledsoe]

So... as fans we should be happy we have an above average LT?

A guy who might rate a 6/7 on a scale of 10 therefore?

What's wrong with wanting to see what another guy can do? Maybe someone even good?

Hey, I respect the guy but Schobel and Taylor own him and have owned him IN COMPARISON to the usual good job he does against most others.

I admit, I'm probably noting his bad plays more b/c of the fact that (as far as I know) he's the highest paid member of the offensive line. Highest paid means he should be the most talented.

Seriously, what's the harm in at least getting a looksee a couple times a game to see if any of the younger guys can do the same job for cheaper?

 

[DarrylS]

Fine. If you only want to talk sacks allowed, we can go back to 2008. Here is the total list or sacks allowed left tackles in the NFL:

1. Ryan Clady (Broncos) 0.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
2. Michael Roos (Titans) 1.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*
3. Tra Thomas (Eagles) 2.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)
3. Orlando Pace (Rams) 2.0 sacks allowed (14 starts)
5. Jake Long (Dolphins) 2.5 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*
6. Jordan Gross (Panthers) 3.0 sacks allowed (15 starts) *PRO-BOWL*
6. Jammal Brown (Saints) 3.0 sacks allowed (15 starts)
6. Jared Gaither (Ravens) 3.0 sacks allowed (15 starts)
6. Marcus McNeill (Chargers) 3.0 sacks allowed (14 starts)
6. Tony Ugoh (Colts) 3.0 sacks allowed (12 starts)
6. Chris Samuels (Redskins) 3.0 sacks allowed (12 starts) *PRO-BOWL*
6. Todd Weiner (Falcons) 3.0 sacks allowed (11 starts)
13. Walter Jones (Seahawks) 3.5 sacks allowed (12 starts) *PRO-BOWL*
14. D’Brickashaw Ferguson (Jets) 4.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)
14. Bryant McKinnie (Vikings) 4.0 sacks allowed (12 starts)
14. Max Starks (Steelers) 4.0 sacks allowed (11 starts)
17. Joe Thomas (Browns) 4.5 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*
17. Branden Albert (Cheifs) 4.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)
19. Levi Brown (Bengals) 5.5 sacks allowed (11 starts)
20. Mike Gandy (Cardinals) 6.25 sacks allowed (16 starts)
21. David Diehl (Giants) 6.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
22. Flozell Adams (Cowboys) 7.25 sacks allowed (16 starts)
23. Khalif Barnes (Jags) 7.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
23. Matt Light (Pats) 7.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
23. Chad Clifton (Packers) 7.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)
23. Kwame Harris (Raiders) 7.5 sacks allowed (11 starts)
27. Joe Staley (49ers) 8.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
28. Donald Penn (Bucs) 8.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
29. Jeff Backus (Lions) 9.25 sacks allowed (16 starts)
30. John St. Clair (Bears) 9.75 sacks allowed (16 starts)
31. Duane Brown (Texans) 11.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
31. Jason Peters (Bills) 11.5 sacks allowed (13 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

...ranked #23 despite having a mobile quarterback that was able to evade pass rushers. Not really what I would call solid or reliable. Keep in mind that was also against a cupcake schedule that didn't see us playing as many elite pass rushers as we do this year. Hopefully, the Matt that you're referring to comes out and starts playing this week... not the Matt that I'm referring to.

It would be helpful if you had a source for this, then there could be followup for the previous seasons.. all that can be found right now is some message board that lists this and that is not referenced either.. these stats are tough to figure out..

That MB has a list of sacks allowed by each lineman, which can be contested as there is no knowledge of blocking schemes for each play.. until these stats are verified they mean nothing.

 

[DSal]

Fine. If you only want to talk sacks allowed, we can go back to 2008. Here is the total list or sacks allowed left tackles in the NFL:

1. Ryan Clady (Broncos) 0.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
2. Michael Roos (Titans) 1.0 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*
3. Tra Thomas (Eagles) 2.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)
3. Orlando Pace (Rams) 2.0 sacks allowed (14 starts)
5. Jake Long (Dolphins) 2.5 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*
6. Jordan Gross (Panthers) 3.0 sacks allowed (15 starts) *PRO-BOWL*
6. Jammal Brown (Saints) 3.0 sacks allowed (15 starts)
6. Jared Gaither (Ravens) 3.0 sacks allowed (15 starts)
6. Marcus McNeill (Chargers) 3.0 sacks allowed (14 starts)
6. Tony Ugoh (Colts) 3.0 sacks allowed (12 starts)
6. Chris Samuels (Redskins) 3.0 sacks allowed (12 starts) *PRO-BOWL*
6. Todd Weiner (Falcons) 3.0 sacks allowed (11 starts)
13. Walter Jones (Seahawks) 3.5 sacks allowed (12 starts) *PRO-BOWL*
14. D’Brickashaw Ferguson (Jets) 4.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)
14. Bryant McKinnie (Vikings) 4.0 sacks allowed (12 starts)
14. Max Starks (Steelers) 4.0 sacks allowed (11 starts)
17. Joe Thomas (Browns) 4.5 sacks allowed (16 starts) *PRO-BOWL*
17. Branden Albert (Cheifs) 4.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)
19. Levi Brown (Bengals) 5.5 sacks allowed (11 starts)
20. Mike Gandy (Cardinals) 6.25 sacks allowed (16 starts)
21. David Diehl (Giants) 6.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
22. Flozell Adams (Cowboys) 7.25 sacks allowed (16 starts)
23. Khalif Barnes (Jags) 7.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
23. Matt Light (Pats) 7.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
23. Chad Clifton (Packers) 7.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)
23. Kwame Harris (Raiders) 7.5 sacks allowed (11 starts)
27. Joe Staley (49ers) 8.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
28. Donald Penn (Bucs) 8.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
29. Jeff Backus (Lions) 9.25 sacks allowed (16 starts)
30. John St. Clair (Bears) 9.75 sacks allowed (16 starts)
31. Duane Brown (Texans) 11.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
31. Jason Peters (Bills) 11.5 sacks allowed (13 starts) *PRO-BOWL*

...ranked #23 despite having a mobile quarterback that was able to evade pass rushers. Not really what I would call solid or reliable. Keep in mind that was also against a cupcake schedule that didn't see us playing as many elite pass rushers as we do this year. Hopefully, the Matt that you're referring to comes out and starts playing this week... not the Matt that I'm referring to.

IMO Matt Light does a good job. I think this is a great discussion. The stats you and Andy have listed is good stuff to chew on.

I'm not sure that 2008 should apply for this argument because of Cassel's tenedency to hold the ball too long - especially in the first half of the season. What are the stats for the second half of 2008?

 

[olschool]

Did you watch Patriots All Access on their website ?

There's some film of Jake Long, Miami's # 1 pick left tackle, being absolutely pancaked by John Abraham. It's not just Light, all tackles have trouble with those speed guys.

Light does a passable job, but after nine years, he does seem to have lost a step.

Sebastian Vollmer looks like the heir apparent. He looked pretty good at left tackle this pre-season.

 

[DarrylS]

Did you watch Patriots All Access on their website ?

There's some film of Jake Long, Miami's # 1 pick left tackle, being absolutely pancaked by John Abraham. It's not just Light, all tackles have trouble with those speed guys.

Light does a passable job, but after nine years, he does seem to have lost a step.

Sebastian Vollmer looks like the heir apparent. He looked pretty good at left tackle this pre-season.

This is why they are called elite pass rushers.. everyone has problems with them.

 

[JSn]

This is why they are called elite pass rushers.. everyone has problems with them.

Very true.

Remember the Raiders game last year? Cassel and Moss made Mr. Elite Corner Nmamdi Os.....rghrghrgulag look like Deltha O'Neil.

 

[OldNEPatsFan]

The problem isn't with Light. The interior of the line couldn't pick up a stunt if their lives depended on it. The majority of the pressure has come up the middle.

 

[PATSNUTme]

You can't "sell" someone who refuses to buy.

Matt has been starting LT since 2001. During this period the team had not had a losing record, went to 4 SB's, and other AFCCG. How many fans of other teams would give their right or left *** for that?

BB and Donte must think he is good enough to be in there at LT.

Those are facts that cannot be disputed. Sold yet? No, I didn't think so.

 

[Kontradiction]

In 2008 we were playing with Cassel and not Brady so there was a big adjustment, and Cassel contributed a lot to this by holding on to the ball for too long. The schemes the Pats were running at the time were a lot better suited for Brady and his quick release. Not only until a few games in did they start tinkering to accommodate Cassel.

What are the 2007 numbers? That would be a better comparison to now than 2008, because that was a transition year.

No it wouldn't. Because then everyone would just say "well, Brady was dropping back almost 50 times per game".

 

[Kontradiction]

It would be helpful if you had a source for this, then there could be followup for the previous seasons.. all that can be found right now is some message board that lists this and that is not referenced either.. these stats are tough to figure out..

That MB has a list of sacks allowed by each lineman, which can be contested as there is no knowledge of blocking schemes for each play.. until these stats are verified they mean nothing.

Sure...

Here: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...419-sacks-given-up-each-left-tackle-year.html

and...

Here: How Many Sacks Each LT Gave Up (Because it interests me) - WalterFootball.com Forums

And here is this year's list, which doesn't even take in account QB hits: Sacks Given Up By LTs (Updated Weekly!) - WalterFootball.com Forums

Yes, I know it's Week 3. Hopefully we'll see him improve today and John Anderson won't constantly be in the backfield. As for the 2007 list, I'm having a little bit of trouble locating it but I'm still looking so give me some time.

 

[Kontradiction]

You can't "sell" someone who refuses to buy.

Matt has been starting LT since 2001. During this period the team had not had a losing record, went to 4 SB's, and other AFCCG. How many fans of other teams would give their right or left *** for that?

BB and Donte must think he is good enough to be in there at LT.

Those are facts that cannot be disputed. Sold yet? No, I didn't think so.

I can buy if someone can put up a strong argument. Simply putting: "they give him trouble", "they give everyone trouble" (not true and I can present other LTs around the league, such as Ryan Clady who allowed a grand total of a half a sack in 2008), and the grand finale of "he's good enough for BB and Donte and has been here since 2001" is NOT a strong argument. Hell, it's not even a decent argument. Andy had the strongest argument of the thread so far and I actually admitted that I was impressed with the fact that he hasn't given up a sack to Freeney in four years. However, that still doesn't stop other evidence from being used against Light and it doesn't stop people from questioning whether or not he would be better moving over to the right side of the line or if an upgrade could be afforded to the LT position. You seem to think that Light is a very good LT. Can you explain why? Or is "BB is happy with him" all you've got?

 

[Kontradiction]

Yeah, Kontradiction and Klinefan probably should stop posting

You're blinding me with your brilliant insight! A personal attack is defined as an acknowledgment by the attacker that he has nothing to argue the point at hand. In this case, you could have just said "I am dead in the water on this issue" and the post would have contained .06% more insight than the one you put up.

 

[Kontradiction]

Found Matt Light's 2007 stats. Pretty good actually considering that he was blocking for a QB that dropped back more than anyone in the league. He allowed 6.50 sacks that season. Here are the numbers for everyone else (sorry, it's a Lions website but that was all I could find for 2007):

Examining the Evidence - Jeff Backus

It's still a shame that the NFL apparently didn't record QB hits as a stat until this year. Still, impressive for Light in 2007. It's probably why he went to the Pro Bowl.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I've never considered "Todd" to be an elite guy, but I don't think he's done either.

He's definitely lost a step, and he's definitely on his last legs. But for what we pay, he's pretty good. It'd be hard to acquire a better player for comparable value.

I know every football player is ridiculously overpaid. However, as far as offensive linemen go, Light really isn't paid that much. I haven't seen a 2009 salary review yet, but according to 2008 figures from USA Today, 30 offensive linemen were paid more than Light in 2008.

Sacks aren't really a great stat. The line gave up no sacks against the Jets, but no one can argue they did a great job. A guy like Roos only gave up one sack last year, but the Titans run a lot, so style of play also impacts those numbers.

I think the FO knows Light isn't as good as he used to be, though he is still the best LT option on the team. I'm really excited about Sea Bass, but he's not ready yet. So you'd think they wouldn't have TB passing 50+ times a game.

So while I agree that we could use an upgrade at LT, Light's not one of the main reasons we've played so poorly.

 

[Michael]

I've been saying for years he's one guy I wouldn't mind seeing traded. He draws more flags than anyone else on the line.

 

[Ring 6]

I think he sold himself today, totally shutting down Abraham.

 

[Patspsycho]

I think he sold himself today, totally shutting down Abraham.

I was about to say that. He shut you up pretty well, Kontradiction, didn't he?

 

[PATSNUTme]

Kontra, if you want to be "sold", your eyes should help you out today.