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Can someone explain the Justin Fields hype?


Fields have improved unlike the Mac.
Some Patsfans don't agree with that ^ yikes what a surprise.
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Another po

in that scenario you go for broke at wr in the free agency.

Mid round WRs I love Corley, Walker.

Am I crazy to think McCarthy will be a better pro than Maye or Daniel’s?
You know how I value your QB evaluations but I have hard time buying that. I just think we didn't see enough on the College level. My fall back guys are Nix or Pennix Jr.
 
Just like WR enough of picking from the thrift store for foundation players.

If you want to make an immediate impact in the 2024 draft, take Marv Harrison Jr. Roll with Corky and Van Pelt.
You're really convincing me that Mac is going to be reclimated by AVP. I'm starting to believe it.
 
YW. The highest Alt will go is fifth since the three QBs and Harrison are going 1-4. But 5th is Alt’s most likely spot to be picked. But he ain’t going past ten.

The good news is they think there are potentially 5-6 franchise LT in this draft. So the Pats could potentially draft Maye or Daniels and then trade into the first with their second round pick and draft their LT of the future.
Name them please?? Didn't know OL was that deep.
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I've been trying to come up with reasons for the Fields hype but I can't find any, even in this thread.
 
You know how I value your QB evaluations but I have hard time buying that. I just think we didn't see enough on the College level. My fall back guys are Nix or Pennix Jr.
Who would have ever thought Mac would out past BB! LOL
 
John Candy No GIF by Laff


To be fair he played "better" down the stretch. But ..no.
 
Yes I also would like to know the 5 sure thing franchise LTs in this draft. There are 2 the others are rolls of the dice.

I never said there were any sure thing franchise LTs. I said there were 5-6 potential franchise LTs in the draft. They were listed several posts back. The draft is a roll of the dice from the first pick to Mr. Irrelevant. There is no such thing as a sure thing franchise LT in the draft. A guy like Alt is as close to a sure thing as you can get, but he could easily be a bust. Although tackles tend to be better bets than other positions.

On the list above, I could see five or six of them with the potential of anchoring an NFL team's line for the next decade. I am not a draftnik or expert by any of the stretch of the imagination, but from what I have researched, some of the guys going later in the first round could be steals because they are big and athletic, but just need some technique work and/or more experience.
 
I never said there were any sure thing franchise LTs. I said there were 5-6 potential franchise LTs in the draft. They were listed several posts back. The draft is a roll of the dice from the first pick to Mr. Irrelevant. There is no such thing as a sure thing franchise LT in the draft. A guy like Alt is as close to a sure thing as you can get, but he could easily be a bust. Although tackles tend to be better bets than other positions.

On the list above, I could see five or six of them with the potential of anchoring an NFL team's line for the next decade. I am not a draftnik or expert by any of the stretch of the imagination, but from what I have researched, some of the guys going later in the first round could be steals because they are big and athletic, but just need some technique work and/or more experience.
And when we had Dante, we could be sure that anyone drafted to play the line could be coached up. It's not like that anymore.
 
I've been trying to come up with reasons for the Fields hype but I can't find any, even in this thread.
Tells us just how bad the QB position is.. I'd rather have fields than Bailey jones.
 
To answer the question of the thread concisely...

"Can someone explain the Justin Fields hype?"

"No."
He had 1143 yards rushing in a season (2nd all time for a QB).

And he is probably as good a passer as broken Cam.

Patriots went 7-8 with Cam Newton. Now imagine the Patriots with that Cam Newton, but he has twice as many rushing yards. Now imagine we pick RHJ in the draft and maybe sign a good FA WR. We could win 10!!!! games.
 
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I've been a proponent of trading for Justin Fields so I will give my justification.

Firstly, I don't think Justin Fields is a franchise QB. Having said that, I don't feel like any of the players that will realistically be available are franchise QB's. My interest in a Justin Fields trade is simply after evaluating all of the likely QB's that will be available, I think he is the best combination of talent, upside, value and allocation of resources. I was going to do a deep evaluation into each of these options but I will try and keep it as short as I can.

The Free Agent QB class is obviously very weak. I don't think we are in the Kirk Cousins market and as much as I would really like Baker Mayfield, I just don't see TB letting him go. Beyond that you have a bunch of veteran backups that don't bring a lot of optimism. Is anyone excited by the prospect of Ryan Tannehill or Jacoby Brissett? I would sign one of these guys as depth but they certainly wouldn't preclude me from going after Fields.

On to the draft and I think there are two QB's worthy of a top 5 pick. Caleb Williams is the #1 QB in the draft and the only reason Fields is available in the first place. I don't love Drake Maye but I can see the tools there and I think he would be a good fit for the scheme the Pats will likely try and run. If either guy were available at 3 I would take them but I think they are going 1/2. Would I trade up for either of them? No. Simply because the cost required to trade up would prohibit us from putting the talent around them to succeed. I think a huge part of QB failure, especially for high draft picks, is teams not having the talent or stability around the young QB. Unfortunately I don't think there is a team in the NFL currently set up worse to develop a young QB that the Patriots. Losing addition resources (because the cost to trade up would be substantial) would really make it different to surround either of these guys with talent.

The most contentious player is Jayden Daniels. I won't get too deep into it but I just don't believe in him with a top 5 pick. I question his ability to read through his progressions and play out of the pocket in the NFL. We also haven't seen him have to throw into NFL windows because his WR's were always wide open. We have seen with Mac Jones how much having an ultra talented WR group in college can make you look good. I'm also really worried about his frame and his ability to hold up with the physicality in the NFL. If we were taking a shot at him in the late 1st round to develop I would be really intrigued by his tools. In the top 3 of a draft that is loaded at WR and OL, that is just too rich for my blood.

Beyond the top 3 there are 3 other fringe 1st round QB's, none of which I would take that high. Bo Nix and JJ McCarthy are game managers that need a lot of talent around them. They could both eventually be NFL QB's, I just don't see the Pats being suited for that type of QB with the current lack of talent. Likely requiring a trade up into the late 1st round I just don't see the value there. Bo Nix reminds me of Brock Purdy, unfortunately we don't have the talent of the 49ers.

Michael Penix Jr is the most intruiging guy to me, but that depends on where he lands in the draft. With a lot of medical red flags and a shaky senior bowl, I think Penix is a candidate to drop in the draft. Every year we see a QB get drafted way later than expected, I think Penix could be the guy this year. The thing that makes Penix most intruiging to me is watching Joe Flacco on the Browns last season. If that is the kind of system AVP wants to use, heavy run and throw the ball vertically off play action, I think Penix would be a good fit. He has an excellent deep ball and good control of the offense pre-snap. I worry about his fit in other schemes though and the medical is a concern. If he fell to the 3rd I'd be interested.

Beyond that there isn't anybody worth mentioning because they wouldn't have any bearing on Fields or any of these top QB's if they were drafted. They would simply be a hedge as a double dip pick.

So we finally get to Justin Fields. He hasn't lived up to the hype as a 1st round pick on a terrible Bears team, but looking at guys like Jared Goff, Baker Mayfield and Geno Smith give me hope he can be salvaged in a new environment. He obviously has excellent athleticism and is a threat with his legs, but I think he still has untapped potential throwing the ball. He has a good but not elite NFL arm. He can't sling it like Josh Allen but he can make all the throws and is certainly an upgrade from Mac Jones. He already has 3 years experience in the NFL and is still only 24 years old. Only 1 year older than guys like Jayden Daniels, Michael Penix and Bo Nix. So there is still upside and room to grow there. I think his ceiling is similar to Jayden Daniels (maybe a bit lower) but his floor is much higher.

He is still under contract for 2 years. 2024 he is dirt cheap and 2025 he is reasonable for a starting NFL QB. One of the things I like the most about trading for Fields is it allows us to keep most of our draft capital to build an offense around him. Fields wont require pick 3 or 34. I would try and trade a 2025 pick, maybe even a conditional pick ranging from rounds 2-4 depending on performance. This would allow us to trade back from 3, gather assets and target 2 OT's and 2 WR's early in the draft to build an offense.

Would the Bears do this trade? One benefit for the Bears taking a 2025 pick is it might make them a little bit more comfortable trading forward future picks to move up in this draft. For example, maybe they want to move up from 9 to draft a generational WR to pair with Caleb Williams? Having potentially an extra 2nd round in 2025 could make them more comfortable trading their 2025 1st in a trade up.

I know Fields isn't everyone's cup of tea and you might evaluate one or many of the QB's differently to me. I just don't feel good about any of the potential options we are looking at in the draft and free agency and I think Fields might be the best of a bad bunch.
 
Tells us just how bad the QB position is.. I'd rather have fields than Bailey jones.
I think the hype is because our QBs suck and we have the 3rd pick, two picks behind Da Bears. The circumstances may fit but I'd rather have another QB than Fields. I wouldn't want Baker Mayfield either.
 
He had 1143 yards rushing in a season (2nd all time for a QB).

And he is probably as good a passer as broken Cam.

Patriots went 7-8 with Cam Newton. Now imagine the Patriots with that Cam Newton, but he has twice as many rushing yards. Now imagine we pick RHJ in the draft and maybe sign a good FA WR. We could win 10!!!! games.
You ready to make him the highest paid Pat before training camp, fully guaranteed?

No? Then enjoy your year with him.
 
I've been a proponent of trading for Justin Fields so I will give my justification.

Firstly, I don't think Justin Fields is a franchise QB. Having said that, I don't feel like any of the players that will realistically be available are franchise QB's. My interest in a Justin Fields trade is simply after evaluating all of the likely QB's that will be available, I think he is the best combination of talent, upside, value and allocation of resources. I was going to do a deep evaluation into each of these options but I will try and keep it as short as I can.

The Free Agent QB class is obviously very weak. I don't think we are in the Kirk Cousins market and as much as I would really like Baker Mayfield, I just don't see TB letting him go. Beyond that you have a bunch of veteran backups that don't bring a lot of optimism. Is anyone excited by the prospect of Ryan Tannehill or Jacoby Brissett? I would sign one of these guys as depth but they certainly wouldn't preclude me from going after Fields.

On to the draft and I think there are two QB's worthy of a top 5 pick. Caleb Williams is the #1 QB in the draft and the only reason Fields is available in the first place. I don't love Drake Maye but I can see the tools there and I think he would be a good fit for the scheme the Pats will likely try and run. If either guy were available at 3 I would take them but I think they are going 1/2. Would I trade up for either of them? No. Simply because the cost required to trade up would prohibit us from putting the talent around them to succeed. I think a huge part of QB failure, especially for high draft picks, is teams not having the talent or stability around the young QB. Unfortunately I don't think there is a team in the NFL currently set up worse to develop a young QB that the Patriots. Losing addition resources (because the cost to trade up would be substantial) would really make it different to surround either of these guys with talent.

The most contentious player is Jayden Daniels. I won't get too deep into it but I just don't believe in him with a top 5 pick. I question his ability to read through his progressions and play out of the pocket in the NFL. We also haven't seen him have to throw into NFL windows because his WR's were always wide open. We have seen with Mac Jones how much having an ultra talented WR group in college can make you look good. I'm also really worried about his frame and his ability to hold up with the physicality in the NFL. If we were taking a shot at him in the late 1st round to develop I would be really intrigued by his tools. In the top 3 of a draft that is loaded at WR and OL, that is just too rich for my blood.

Beyond the top 3 there are 3 other fringe 1st round QB's, none of which I would take that high. Bo Nix and JJ McCarthy are game managers that need a lot of talent around them. They could both eventually be NFL QB's, I just don't see the Pats being suited for that type of QB with the current lack of talent. Likely requiring a trade up into the late 1st round I just don't see the value there. Bo Nix reminds me of Brock Purdy, unfortunately we don't have the talent of the 49ers.

Michael Penix Jr is the most intruiging guy to me, but that depends on where he lands in the draft. With a lot of medical red flags and a shaky senior bowl, I think Penix is a candidate to drop in the draft. Every year we see a QB get drafted way later than expected, I think Penix could be the guy this year. The thing that makes Penix most intruiging to me is watching Joe Flacco on the Browns last season. If that is the kind of system AVP wants to use, heavy run and throw the ball vertically off play action, I think Penix would be a good fit. He has an excellent deep ball and good control of the offense pre-snap. I worry about his fit in other schemes though and the medical is a concern. If he fell to the 3rd I'd be interested.

Beyond that there isn't anybody worth mentioning because they wouldn't have any bearing on Fields or any of these top QB's if they were drafted. They would simply be a hedge as a double dip pick.

So we finally get to Justin Fields. He hasn't lived up to the hype as a 1st round pick on a terrible Bears team, but looking at guys like Jared Goff, Baker Mayfield and Geno Smith give me hope he can be salvaged in a new environment. He obviously has excellent athleticism and is a threat with his legs, but I think he still has untapped potential throwing the ball. He has a good but not elite NFL arm. He can't sling it like Josh Allen but he can make all the throws and is certainly an upgrade from Mac Jones. He already has 3 years experience in the NFL and is still only 24 years old. Only 1 year older than guys like Jayden Daniels, Michael Penix and Bo Nix. So there is still upside and room to grow there. I think his ceiling is similar to Jayden Daniels (maybe a bit lower) but his floor is much higher.

He is still under contract for 2 years. 2024 he is dirt cheap and 2025 he is reasonable for a starting NFL QB. One of the things I like the most about trading for Fields is it allows us to keep most of our draft capital to build an offense around him. Fields wont require pick 3 or 34. I would try and trade a 2025 pick, maybe even a conditional pick ranging from rounds 2-4 depending on performance. This would allow us to trade back from 3, gather assets and target 2 OT's and 2 WR's early in the draft to build an offense.

Would the Bears do this trade? One benefit for the Bears taking a 2025 pick is it might make them a little bit more comfortable trading forward future picks to move up in this draft. For example, maybe they want to move up from 9 to draft a generational WR to pair with Caleb Williams? Having potentially an extra 2nd round in 2025 could make them more comfortable trading their 2025 1st in a trade up.

I know Fields isn't everyone's cup of tea and you might evaluate one or many of the QB's differently to me. I just don't feel good about any of the potential options we are looking at in the draft and free agency and I think Fields might be the best of a bad bunch.
tl;dr
 
I've been a proponent of trading for Justin Fields so I will give my justification.

Firstly, I don't think Justin Fields is a franchise QB. Having said that, I don't feel like any of the players that will realistically be available are franchise QB's. My interest in a Justin Fields trade is simply after evaluating all of the likely QB's that will be available, I think he is the best combination of talent, upside, value and allocation of resources. I was going to do a deep evaluation into each of these options but I will try and keep it as short as I can.

The Free Agent QB class is obviously very weak. I don't think we are in the Kirk Cousins market and as much as I would really like Baker Mayfield, I just don't see TB letting him go. Beyond that you have a bunch of veteran backups that don't bring a lot of optimism. Is anyone excited by the prospect of Ryan Tannehill or Jacoby Brissett? I would sign one of these guys as depth but they certainly wouldn't preclude me from going after Fields.

On to the draft and I think there are two QB's worthy of a top 5 pick. Caleb Williams is the #1 QB in the draft and the only reason Fields is available in the first place. I don't love Drake Maye but I can see the tools there and I think he would be a good fit for the scheme the Pats will likely try and run. If either guy were available at 3 I would take them but I think they are going 1/2. Would I trade up for either of them? No. Simply because the cost required to trade up would prohibit us from putting the talent around them to succeed. I think a huge part of QB failure, especially for high draft picks, is teams not having the talent or stability around the young QB. Unfortunately I don't think there is a team in the NFL currently set up worse to develop a young QB that the Patriots. Losing addition resources (because the cost to trade up would be substantial) would really make it different to surround either of these guys with talent.

The most contentious player is Jayden Daniels. I won't get too deep into it but I just don't believe in him with a top 5 pick. I question his ability to read through his progressions and play out of the pocket in the NFL. We also haven't seen him have to throw into NFL windows because his WR's were always wide open. We have seen with Mac Jones how much having an ultra talented WR group in college can make you look good. I'm also really worried about his frame and his ability to hold up with the physicality in the NFL. If we were taking a shot at him in the late 1st round to develop I would be really intrigued by his tools. In the top 3 of a draft that is loaded at WR and OL, that is just too rich for my blood.

Beyond the top 3 there are 3 other fringe 1st round QB's, none of which I would take that high. Bo Nix and JJ McCarthy are game managers that need a lot of talent around them. They could both eventually be NFL QB's, I just don't see the Pats being suited for that type of QB with the current lack of talent. Likely requiring a trade up into the late 1st round I just don't see the value there. Bo Nix reminds me of Brock Purdy, unfortunately we don't have the talent of the 49ers.

Michael Penix Jr is the most intruiging guy to me, but that depends on where he lands in the draft. With a lot of medical red flags and a shaky senior bowl, I think Penix is a candidate to drop in the draft. Every year we see a QB get drafted way later than expected, I think Penix could be the guy this year. The thing that makes Penix most intruiging to me is watching Joe Flacco on the Browns last season. If that is the kind of system AVP wants to use, heavy run and throw the ball vertically off play action, I think Penix would be a good fit. He has an excellent deep ball and good control of the offense pre-snap. I worry about his fit in other schemes though and the medical is a concern. If he fell to the 3rd I'd be interested.

Beyond that there isn't anybody worth mentioning because they wouldn't have any bearing on Fields or any of these top QB's if they were drafted. They would simply be a hedge as a double dip pick.

So we finally get to Justin Fields. He hasn't lived up to the hype as a 1st round pick on a terrible Bears team, but looking at guys like Jared Goff, Baker Mayfield and Geno Smith give me hope he can be salvaged in a new environment. He obviously has excellent athleticism and is a threat with his legs, but I think he still has untapped potential throwing the ball. He has a good but not elite NFL arm. He can't sling it like Josh Allen but he can make all the throws and is certainly an upgrade from Mac Jones. He already has 3 years experience in the NFL and is still only 24 years old. Only 1 year older than guys like Jayden Daniels, Michael Penix and Bo Nix. So there is still upside and room to grow there. I think his ceiling is similar to Jayden Daniels (maybe a bit lower) but his floor is much higher.

He is still under contract for 2 years. 2024 he is dirt cheap and 2025 he is reasonable for a starting NFL QB. One of the things I like the most about trading for Fields is it allows us to keep most of our draft capital to build an offense around him. Fields wont require pick 3 or 34. I would try and trade a 2025 pick, maybe even a conditional pick ranging from rounds 2-4 depending on performance. This would allow us to trade back from 3, gather assets and target 2 OT's and 2 WR's early in the draft to build an offense.

Would the Bears do this trade? One benefit for the Bears taking a 2025 pick is it might make them a little bit more comfortable trading forward future picks to move up in this draft. For example, maybe they want to move up from 9 to draft a generational WR to pair with Caleb Williams? Having potentially an extra 2nd round in 2025 could make them more comfortable trading their 2025 1st in a trade up.

I know Fields isn't everyone's cup of tea and you might evaluate one or many of the QB's differently to me. I just don't feel good about any of the potential options we are looking at in the draft and free agency and I think Fields might be the best of a bad bunch.
I would absolutely take Ryan Tannehill or Jacoby Brissett as a bridge QB over Fields. Hopefully we'll draft a QB and put him in there in 2025 and off we'll go.

While having a drink at a local restaurant a man came in and sat next to me at the bar and we started chatting. He asked me if I was a football fan and I told him yes but I don't follow college ball. He said that I need to watch out for JJ McCarthy, who I watched in the playoffs. He was okay but nothing to write home about, like the other QBs I saw for the first time in this year's playoffs.

The problem for the NYFL is that the college coaches smartened up and started using runners at QB. I guess they were more interested in keeping their jobs than training pocket QBs for the NYFL coaches. The problem is that the NYFL still requires passers more than runners at QB.
 


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