Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

[Rob0729]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

BTW, this is a part of the SMY report that wasn't posted here:

There's an idea out there that the Patriots are trying to nickel and dime Waters or have somehow wronged him, when in this instance they've gone well above and beyond in trying to appease a player and get him to the team.

Patriots offered Brian Waters $4 million to return this season - Extra Points - Boston.com

 

[MoLewisrocks]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

So the Pats offered him $4 million in August. I assume that was a base salary and not a salary plus incentives. Yet, you think the Pats were going to give him the veteran minimum base with incentives and then bench him to save money? Where is the logic in that?

You know how big they are on playing situations here... The situation changed. Gallery and Koppen didn't pan out. That meant they needed to consider alternatives at two positions. And when put into action in the pre season, that was scary. Not to mention Vollmer and Mankins weren't exactly coming along as rapidly as they may have anticipated.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

BTW, this is a part of the SMY report that wasn't posted here:



Patriots offered Brian Waters $4 million to return this season - Extra Points - Boston.com

That is her opinion. As I said earlier, depends on your definition of bending over backwards. And you don't usually have to appease a player unless you first nickel and dime him, both of which they did.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

This isn't complicated.

The man likes spending time with his family, and prioritizes family over money.

It's honorable, to be honest. We whine and moan about athletes being all about the $$, when one finally steps up and says he'd forego some serious change just to be near his family - good for him. He's made his bank, he's had a long career, I hold no grudges.

I wish he had made the decision long ago; or rather, I ideally wish he arranged for his family & kids to spend the year in Massachusetts (did anyone try to sell Brian on our education system?), but so be it. It is what it is. Belichick was prepared for it, our depth on the interior is OK, at the moment it is being tested because of the Connolly situation, but we'll have to survive.

When you think about it,suppose Waters was only on a 1 year deal last year and was a FA and Houston or Dallas offered him 4 Million to play for them this year.

Do you really think he turns it down? ..... I don't.

 

[Rob0729]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

You know how big they are on playing situations here... The situation changed. Gallery and Koppen didn't pan out. That meant they needed to consider alternatives at two positions. And when put into action in the pre season, that was scary. Not to mention Vollmer and Mankins weren't exactly coming along as rapidly as they may have anticipated.

Who cares? They stepped up their commitment and agreed to over pay him. What is the difference. Damn them for offering to give Waters a $1.75 million raise because they had to wait too long to do it.

 

[Rob0729]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

That is her opinion. As I said earlier, depends on your definition of bending over backwards. And you don't usually have to appease a player unless you first nickel and dime him, both of which they did.

Except, SMY has direct knowledge of the situation by talking to people involved possibly even Waters. You are forming assumptions based on media reports. Curran, Bedard, and Reiss all echo her opinion based on talking to their sources. I will go with the consensus opinion. Curran and Bedard have not be lock step and barrell with the Patriots on every move and criticized them.

Based on all the information, Waters wants to play, but only in Dallas or Houston. It isn't a money thing.

 

[randomk1]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

This isn't complicated.

The man likes spending time with his family, and prioritizes family over money.

It's honorable, to be honest. We whine and moan about athletes being all about the $$, when one finally steps up and says he'd forego some serious change just to be near his family - good for him. He's made his bank, he's had a long career, I hold no grudges.

I wish he had made the decision long ago; or rather, I ideally wish he arranged for his family & kids to spend the year in Massachusetts (did anyone try to sell Brian on our education system?), but so be it. It is what it is. Belichick was prepared for it, our depth on the interior is OK, at the moment it is being tested because of the Connolly situation, but we'll have to survive.

This is a business and every one of these players are making a sacrifice when it comes to family, i know it is quite horrible considering how little they are being paid. But this guy was under contract and has an obligation to this team. If he has such an issue with leaving his family and has his mind made up why hasn't he retired and let the team know long before that. Seems to me like this guy has jerked around with the entire FO.

 

[Rob0729]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

This is a business and every one of these players are making a sacrifice when it comes to family, i know it is quite horrible considering how little they are being paid. But this guy was under contract and has an obligation to this team. If he has such an issue with leaving his family and has his mind made up why hasn't he retired and let the team know long before that. Seems to me like this guy has jerked around with the entire FO.

I think he might be holding out hope that the Pats work out a trade with Dallas who are in desperate need of upgrading their o-line. It is the only thing that makes sense. If not, there is no difference from officially retiring or doing what he is doing now.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Again, the Pats were willing to pay $4 million to the guy. This other stuff is irrelevant. $4 million for a 36 year old guard is good money. He just doesn't want to play in New England and leave his family. You are making a conspiracy where there is none.

I'm not into conspiracies. I asked Shalize for a timeline and details, and she provided as much as she knows. We disagree on what it reveals. I see a team that needed a player but didn't want to pay what he was worth. In fact, for some reason, even knowing his history, they decided to prod him for a break in exchange for nothing. And he apparently thought that over and figured it out. And then when push came to shove they offered him what he is likely worth on the open market. And he said no thanks, probably in part because he doesn't really want to play for them anymore. And while he might still choose to play if he could play closer to home, he doesn't need the money and apparently he's willing to forego it given the options.

This is as much a story of miscalculating human nature as anything. If they have an achilles heel this is it. Has been forever. There is a certain player they will always do OK with, there are others they never will. Sometimes that's OK and other times it's just sad.

 

[brdmaverick]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Ted Washington circa 2003 says hi!

I think he has a missed call from Rodney Harrison, too.

Oh, and Randy Moss.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

I think he might be holding out hope that the Pats work out a trade with Dallas who are in desperate need of upgrading their o-line. It is the only thing that makes sense. If not, there is no difference from officially retiring or doing what he is doing now.

For a decent late pick (4th? 5th?) I'd trade with Dallas, issue being we could meet them in the SB, though unlikely IMO. NFW do I trade him to Houston for such.

Note again that Waters and his agent have said nothing. Unusual in these situations. That indicates that there's a reluctance to burn bridges whether it's a trade or a mid-season play half the games deal where away from family is minimized.

I think he sits out the season, retiring afterwards.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Except, SMY has direct knowledge of the situation by talking to people involved possibly even Waters. You are forming assumptions based on media reports. Curran, Bedard, and Reiss all echo her opinion based on talking to their sources. I will go with the consensus opinion. Curran and Bedard have not be lock step and barrell with the Patriots on every move and criticized them.

Based on all the information, Waters wants to play, but only in Dallas or Houston. It isn't a money thing.

I'm just forming different assumptions based exactly on her information as well as Bedard's, wherever it came from. I'm also looking at the situation from the perspective of a player who has already banked plenty, who was known to be somewhat sensitive to being mistreated or mishandled by his previous boss, a BB protoge, and a team who had a need for a pro bowl RG (although perhaps they didn't believe that would necessarily be the case until after camp opened).

Shalise was the same person who seemed to think Adalius was misunderstood and mishandled here. I disagreed with her then, too.

 

[BradyManny]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

This is a business and every one of these players are making a sacrifice when it comes to family, i know it is quite horrible considering how little they are being paid. But this guy was under contract and has an obligation to this team. If he has such an issue with leaving his family and has his mind made up why hasn't he retired and let the team know long before that. Seems to me like this guy has jerked around with the entire FO.

If the bolded is the case, then it's most certainly a one-way street, because "contracts" in the NFL are anything but. Teams are allowed to tear up "contracts" and not pay what salary is left on it. It doesn't mean jack.

Brian Waters is 35 years old, he's played in a 175 games and made 6 Pro Bowls. He has 5 children. If he has made the decision that he wants to be around his family, whether he is playing football or not, that is his decision to make. There are very few people that would prioritize their company over their family, and those that do are making a mistake.

If he erred, it was signing a 2 year deal last year, but again, it's almost meaningless. Light signed a two year deal last year without having much intention of following through on year 2, should we have his head, too? An NFL contract isn't really a contract. And both sides know it and both sides deal with it. And that's fine.

 

[Deus Irae]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Who cares? They stepped up their commitment and agreed to over pay him. What is the difference. Damn them for offering to give Waters a $1.75 million raise because they had to wait too long to do it.

Players care, just like employees at "regular" jobs care.

 

[Rob0729]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Players care, just like employees at "regular" jobs care.

If the Pats cave and offer him a great deal like the Pats offered in August, players usually don't care because they won. If your boss low balls you and you threaten to leave and then he offers you an above market deal, you usually forgive and forget pretty quickly.

From all accounts, this isn't about money. It is about playing close to his family. If it was about money, he would be playing right now under a $4 million deal.

 

[Rob0729]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

I'm just forming different assumptions based exactly on her information as well as Bedard's, wherever it came from. I'm also looking at the situation from the perspective of a player who has already banked plenty, who was known to be somewhat sensitive to being mistreated or mishandled by his previous boss, a BB protoge, and a team who had a need for a pro bowl RG (although perhaps they didn't believe that would necessarily be the case until after camp opened).

Shalise was the same person who seemed to think Adalius was misunderstood and mishandled here. I disagreed with her then, too.

Except your assumptions are not supported by the source material you are drawing your assumptions from.

 

[Deus Irae]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

If the Pats cave and offer him a great deal like the Pats offered in August, players usually don't care because they won. If your boss low balls you and you threaten to leave and then he offers you an above market deal, you usually forgive and forget pretty quickly.

Funny.... I've worked in many different "industries", and I've seen precisely the opposite. Once a boss screws over an employee, things are rarely ever the same. It's usually followed by a disgruntled employee caring less about his job and beginning to look for employment elsewhere. Even if the employee gets that "above market deal" you're talking about, the initial slight is never forgotten and very rarely forgiven.

From all accounts, this isn't about money. It is about playing close to his family. If it was about money, he would be playing right now under a $4 million deal.

This is simply not true.

 

[IllegalContact]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

This is simply not true.

you know this how?

if it was about money, then it would have been about money a long time ago just as it is with every other player.

the only thing that makes logical sense is that he wants to play in houston and there is no way the pats are going to allow that to happen and that's why there is nothing to talk tbout

 

[Rob0729]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

This is simply not true.

Really? Have you spoken to Waters? Everyone who reported on this said he wants to be cut or traded to Houston or Dallas, but you are saying that isn't true. Obviously, you have information that none of us know.

I'm sure if the Pats offered him something ridiculous like $8 million, he might cave. But it seems pretty obvious that if $4 million doesn't get him to report, it isn't about money.

 

[Deus Irae]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

you know this how?

if it was about money, then it would have been about money a long time ago just as it is with every other player.

the only thing that makes logical sense is that he wants to play in houston and there is no way the pats are going to allow that to happen and that's why there is nothing to talk tbout

Because not all accounts have said that it isn't about money.