JJDChE
In the Starting Line-Up
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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.It was his grandfather and the issue was he remained away longer than the pre agreed time he was excused for without seeking additional permission. Just came back a day late.
I'm kind of annoyed that this guy doesn't have that desire for the ring in him. A few months away from his family is going to be that big of an issue?
Pretty sure Troy,Tedy,Rodney would suit up tomorrow if they could play.
**** it...why not pay the 4 mill to a guy that actually wants play? Carter would've looked awesome on that front line even if he might not be 100% atm.
Similar leverage they used and perhaps are still employing in Welker's case. If they limit Waters use or don't start him he never sees any incentives. They did bring in Gallery on a $1.8M contract with $400K in signing bonus up front and they brought Koppen back on a 2 year deal with $350K in signing bonus up front which immediately resulted in freeing up Connolly to play guard if not center. Folks can cover their eyes and stick their fingers in their ears all they want but it's not like they haven't done some head scratching stuff this offseason geared towards getting younger and cheaper...and where they believe they can turning the vet into the backup or cutting him.
Bedard talked about a trust issue earlier on, and those usually cut both ways.
Folks can cover their eyes and stick their fingers in their ears all they want
the texans and cowboys have just as good of a shot at makeing the SB as the pats do so i wont say he has no desire for a ring and we dont know if that "4 million" was guaranteed... bottom line is im not saying he's right or worng but for a guy at the end of he's career to play one more year for he's home town team for maybe only one million less means more to him then it dose to us
$100K was his in house off season workout bonus which like many before him he didn't care to earn. Bedard reported that he seemed to be OK with the restructure when first approached. Maybe they should have had it drawn up and signed. I know this team often has a different view of what was agreed upon or what players were seemingly OK with than it turns out they did in reality. Mankins and Brady both immediately come to mind. In the end neither signed until they got what they really were OK with.
WOW. Listen to the BS you are spewing. This is SMY we are talking about. She's proven that she's not one to kiss the teams arse. The Adalius Thomas reporting was proof of that. So, your claims that it's a "one sided report spun about how the poor team is attempting to bend over backwards and was just totally screwed over by the conniving player" schtick doesn't hold water.
How do you know she's not getting her information from Waters himself? You don't. None of us do. But it's pretty sad that you automatically defend Waters as if his garbage don't stink..
Sorry, Mo. But the only one doing any spinning on this is you. And nothing coming out supports any of your claims.
As colleague Greg Bedard and I have previously reported, when Waters initially signed with New England last September, he and Bill Belichick had an agreement that Waters wouldn't have to take part in training camp or offseason work so that he could spend as much time as possible at home in Texas (he's a married father of five). That's not something that's going to be publicized because it is giving a veteran player special treatment.
OK, so that agreement pre-existed any discussion of restructure - ergo nothing to trade.
But New England fully expected that Waters would show up late in training camp.
Earlier in the year, Waters and the Patriots agreed to a modified contract structure but never officially signed off on it or it would appear to lower his base salary on the NFLPA site and have been reported by one of the many folks who keep tabs on that site for just that reason for this year that was to drop his base salary but offer per-game bonuses that would have put him at least to - and likely above - the $1.4 million base he originally signed for. [/b] Only he originally signed for more, $2.25M including $750K in for 2012 LTBE incentives.[/b] The expectation was he would show up late in training camp. Waters has been durable in his career, so he likely would have earned all of the money, if he were allowed to start, ask WW about how that works begging the question, why even go there with a player who missed 3 games in the last decade but New England was protected in case the 35-year old offensive lineman was injured. And a renegotiation such as that can't happen without the player agreeing to it. And had he agreed to it in writing, officially, it would have been reflected on the NFLPA site and we all would have heard about it - so that never happened. They may have talked and he may have initially seemed OK with the prospect and later realized that was a really stupid move for him to even consider even before they signed Gallery and Koppen for more base money than he was going to be getting.
My question is...if this was as early as it was.....wasn't there any OG out in FA that they could have signed for 4 million if Brian said thanks but no thanks?
the texans and cowboys have just as good of a shot at makeing the SB as the pats do so i wont say he has no desire for a ring and we dont know if that "4 million" was guaranteed... bottom line is im not saying he's right or worng but for a guy at the end of he's career to play one more year for he's home town team for maybe only one million less means more to him then it dose to us
Apparently, because you seem to keep doing it. Every single report except for Jeff Howe's (which was neutral) states the Pats really wanted Waters back and bent over backwards to accomodate him and his family commitments. It doesn't make sense that they would give him the summer off to be with his family and then try to screw with him.
Also, your logic about then "Welkering" him makes no sense. If the Pats did deactivate him to avoid paying him an incentive bonus, he could easily do what he is doing now is leave the Pats and go home and get paid $50-60k for three days worth of practice. Why would the Pats even want to bring him back and the get desperate and offer him a substantial raise if they intended to play games with him and deactivate him.
Also, you argument about bringing in Gallery and Koppen so they could screw with Waters to do this youth movement and be cheaper makes no sense. First both those guys are clearly declining and would have been making more than Waters' deal before adjusted. Also, neither fit into a "youth movement" philosophy. Koppen is 33 and Gallery is 32. How is that a youth movement?
Something tells me that the pats assumed he would be in town by the end of August until it was too late.
Here is what Shalise said...
My question is...if this was as early as it was.....wasn't there any OG out in FA that they could have signed for 4 million if Brian said thanks but no thanks?
Depends on your definition of bent over backwards I guess. The agreement that he not have to come in for camp or most of it was reached a year and a half ago when they signed the original deal. If he came in on the deal they wanted to restructure him to in mid August, he leaves his family for a month and risks injury for per diem only. He wouldn't know if he was going to be replaced until the game plan is installed, kinda like Wes.
Koppen and Gallery were younger than Waters, but in the end whose playing now? Those guys are a lot younger. Not better, but again using the Welker example, that doesn't seem to matter. Maybe if he had come in he'd be stuck on the bench behind Connolly or Thomas until they got desperate and in the meantime look like there is something wrong with him ala Welker.
Per Shalise the $4M offer came in August during camp. And no, there was no OG FA worth that money still available at that time. Had the offer been made in March and he declined, then they probably could have persued viable alternatives although it's always hard to replace a pro bowl caliber player.
You keep on saying that Waters would already get $2.25 million which isn't true. He already passed on a $100k workout bonus which brought it down to $2.15 million (according to Jason's site). We don't know how many of the LTBE bonuses he would get in original contract. Odds are that $750k in bonuses were already tied to playing time anyway which would be a wash in the revised deal.
So basically, if the max he could earn in the revised deal is $2.25 million, the Pats basically gave him the summer off and agreed to give him his workout bonus for not showing up as long as he played 16 games. In return, they lowered his base salary and increased his incentives.
This isn't complicated.
The man likes spending time with his family, and prioritizes family over money.
It's honorable, to be honest. We whine and moan about athletes being all about the $$, when one finally steps up and says he'd forego some serious change just to be near his family - good for him. He's made his bank, he's had a long career, I hold no grudges.
I wish he had made the decision long ago; or rather, I ideally wish he arranged for his family & kids to spend the year in Massachusetts (did anyone try to sell Brian on our education system?), but so be it. It is what it is. Belichick was prepared for it, our depth on the interior is OK, at the moment it is being tested because of the Connolly situation, but we'll have to survive.
He may be entitled to that $100K yet if their original deal stipulated it. Ty Law used to get his $250K without participating in house... We do know if he remained the starter he would get them all because he got all of his incentives which were double that last season. That is what LTBE means, likely to be earned based on you earned them last season. They were asking him to make another $500K of his base salary LTBE. As Jason pointed out, that saved them nothing on the cap but might have saved them something in cash if he was injured (or simply didn't start). The FO wasted three times that on players it ultimately cut (so far this season).