PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Brady vs. Montana: First 9 years


Status
Not open for further replies.
And Brady had less YPA. We could do this all day.

Brady's rating 117.2

Manning's 121.1

But that is also the only season out of Brady's career where he had a statistically better season than Manning.

And he certainly didn't have a better season than Manning this year despite what your fellow Pats fan there called a "ordinary" season for Manning.

Cool story bro

I choose 3 SB rings over regular season stats.

I'm happy you feel differently, it's working out for both of us
 
In conclusion, categories where each lead head-to-head.



I'll take the second guy.

Wow, a Pats fan taking Brady? Imagine that.

BTW, I don't know if you messed up maybe my screen is screwing up, but there's nothing in your post.
 
Last edited:
We're talking about now, not 2004. That's my whole point.

Brady won 3 SB's the last of which was in 2004. How does that say he's the 2nd best now?

And I think Brady is great too, and I realize things are slow around here for obvious reasons, but the statute of limitations for chest thumping is running out for the Pats.

If 2007 hadn't happened you would be right. We didn't win the superbowl but we went an unprecedented 18-0 and now own some very impressive records.

By your logic what makes Manning the best? His regular season heroics which have only managed to capture 1 SB ring?

Maybe Ben Worthlessburger is the best since he has 2 SBs, both more recent than Bradys and 1 more than Manning

RIGHT?
 
If 2007 hadn't happened you would be right. We didn't win the superbowl but we went an unprecedented 18-0 and now own some very impressive records.

By your logic what makes Manning the best? His regular season heroics which have only managed to capture 1 SB ring?

Maybe Ben Worthlessburger is the best since he has 2 SBs, both more recent than Bradys and 1 more than Manning

RIGHT?

I didn't say Manning was the best ever, did I?
 
Wow, a Pats fan taking Brady?

1) Brady's best regular season is better than Manning's best regular season.
2) Brady's playoff stats (+ record) are better than Manning's playoff stats (+ record)
3) Brady has three Super Bowl Championships, Manning has one.

Makes it quite easy for me to pick Brady.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
1) Brady's best regular season is better than Manning's best regular season.
2) Brady's playoff stats (+ record) are better than Manning's playoff stats (+ record)
3) Brady has three Super Bowl Championships, Manning has one.

Makes it quite easy for me to pick Brady.

Brady's best season isn't better, he just threw 1 more TD.

Brady's PO stats aren't much better than Manning's and depending on what happens this year Manning could be ahead of Brady, PO stat wise.

And SB's doesn't mean a QB is better. Sorry. If it does Terry Bradshaw is right up there with Montana as the best QB of the modern era.

Now are you telling me Terry Bradshaw is better than Brady? I could rattle off QB's all day that are/were better than Bradshaw. Same with Aikman, you think Aikman is as good as Brady?

If you're just going to say "SBs" then that's what you're saying. Bradshaw is better than Brady.
 
Brady's best season isn't better, he just threw 1 more TD.

Only threw 1 more TD? Once again, Brady had...

-More passing TDs
-Less INTs
-Higher completion percentage
-More passing yards
-More rushing TDs
-More wins


So you're trying to tell me the guy with less passing TDs, less rushing TDs, more INTs, less passing yards, a lower completion percentage and less wins had a better season than the man who won all those categories?

And SB's doesn't mean a QB is better.

Brady's SB numbers are great, how you perform at the biggest stage does play a part in comparing QBs.

If Brady won 3 SB's with Ben Roethlisberger. '05 numbers then you could make an argument.
 
Last edited:
And SB's doesn't mean a QB is better. Sorry. If it does Terry Bradshaw is right up there with Montana as the best QB of the modern era.

Now are you telling me Terry Bradshaw is better than Brady? I could rattle off QB's all day that are/were better than Bradshaw. Same with Aikman, you think Aikman is as good as Brady?

If you're just going to say "SBs" then that's what you're saying. Bradshaw is better than Brady.

I can't speak for everyone else but I agree that SBs don't make you a great QB

However as a fan I'd take a mediocre QB who could win me a bunch of SBs over the best QB of all time who couldn't win 1
 
Just a note, in 2007 Brady played every game, a luxury Manning didn't have in 2007.

Brady also had Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Dante Stallworth and Jabar Gaffney. That's FOUR starting calibre wide receivers. Peyton Manning never had a receiving corps that deep. Always very good, but never that good.

Brady threw 23 touchdowns to one player. Manning never had the benefit of having a receiver like Randy Moss. Marvin Harrison was 6'0. You can't just toss a ball up and let a guy like Marvin Harrison jump for it. Which is something Brady loved that season. WIll anyone actually try and argue that Brady wasn't going deep to Moss in almost any situation, like it was going out of style, that year? Manning had to use his weapons more evenly and spread the ball around. He didn't have the luxury of having a guy on his team capable of breaking the all time receiving TDs record.

If Manning had been allowed to play the full season out, how many more TDs would he have put up? Probably at least 3 more, but who knows. Brady very well might not have been able to catch it. And if Brady had've sat towards the end like Manning did, he wouldn't have broken the record.

All things to keep in mind when comparing those two seasons. Yes Brady had an amazing year that year, and he deserves a lot of respect for it, but he did it with a team that was basically custom built that year for that kind of thing to happen, and that never let up on throwing TDs, at any point in any game all season long.
 
Last edited:
Just a note, in 2007 Brady played every game, a luxury Manning didn't have in 2007.

And once again, Brady still had less INTs. That's even more amazing.

Peyton Manning never had a receiving corps that deep. Always very good, but never that good.

In 2004 he had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne & Dallas Clark.

And Edgerrin James, an All-Pro RB that season. It's a lot easier to pass when you have such an elite running threat, something Brady obviously didn't have.

WIll anyone actually try and argue that Brady wasn't going deep to Moss in almost any situation....Manning had to use his weapons more evenly and spread the ball around.

Moss didn't even lead his own team in receptions, Welker had 112 of them.
 
And once again, Brady still had less INTs. That's even more amazing.



In 2004 he had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne & Dallas Clark.

And Edgerrin James, an All-Pro RB that season. It's a lot easier to pass when you have such an elite running threat, something Brady obviously didn't have.



Moss didn't even lead his own team in receptions, Welker had 112 of them.

The 2004 Colts and the 2007 Pats had very similar run games, both had around 1800 yards rushing and I looked it up, NE had something like a 4.1 average and Indy had a 4.3 average. Indy averaged 115.8 YPG on the ground and NE averaged 115.6 Not exactly a big difference.

So try again.
 
Just a note, in 2007 Brady played every game, a luxury Manning didn't have in 2007.

Brady also had Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Dante Stallworth and Jabar Gaffney. That's FOUR starting calibre wide receivers. Peyton Manning never had a receiving corps that deep. Always very good, but never that good.

Brady threw 23 touchdowns to one player. Manning never had the benefit of having a receiver like Randy Moss. Marvin Harrison was 6'0. You can't just toss a ball up and let a guy like Marvin Harrison jump for it. Which is something Brady loved that season. WIll anyone actually try and argue that Brady wasn't going deep to Moss in almost any situation, like it was going out of style, that year? Manning had to use his weapons more evenly and spread the ball around. He didn't have the luxury of having a guy on his team capable of breaking the all time receiving TDs record.

If Manning had been allowed to play the full season out, how many more TDs would he have put up? Probably at least 3 more, but who knows. Brady very well might not have been able to catch it. And if Brady had've sat towards the end like Manning did, he wouldn't have broken the record.

All things to keep in mind when comparing those two seasons. Yes Brady had an amazing year that year, and he deserves a lot of respect for it, but he did it with a team that was basically custom built that year for that kind of thing to happen, and that never let up on throwing TDs, at any point in any game all season long.


Let me get this straight. The receiver talent (Moss) made Brady's stats better than they should have been thus proving Manning is better?

Brady had Moss for 2 seasons, Manning had probowl WR talent virtually his entire career. So in effect you are arguing the small deviations in Manning's stats over Brady's throughout their careers actually prove Brady is better because he played the bulk of his career throwing to guys like: Brow, Branch, Givens, Wiggins, Caldwell, Gaffney...

Yes I agree, Tom Brady is the best QB the game has ever seen. No single QB ever could do as much as Brady with the lack of pure talent he has had. Brady does more with less, Brady does more with more...
 
Last edited:
Just a note, in 2007 Brady played every game, a luxury Manning didn't have in 2007.

Brady also had Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Dante Stallworth and Jabar Gaffney. That's FOUR starting calibre wide receivers. Peyton Manning never had a receiving corps that deep. Always very good, but never that good.
Harrison, Wayne, Stokely, Clark, James. Cry me a frickin' river. God I despise Colts fans!
 
Those really are amazing stats. I truly in the future they will be considered "equals" as all time greats.
 
Harrison, Wayne, Stokely, Clark, James. Cry me a frickin' river. God I despise Colts fans!


Harrison and Wayne, yes. Stokley and Clarke, no. Dallas Clark in 2004 was NOT the same player he is today. He was in his 2nd year and he was a talented up and comer, but nowhere near the talent he is right now.

Brandon Stokley was a product of Peyton Manning. Manning made Stokley look good when he so chose to. Compare that year to the rest of Stokley's career and you'll see that.
 
And once again, Brady still had less INTs. That's even more amazing.
His INTs that year were definitely very impressive.

In 2004 he had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne & Dallas Clark.

And Edgerrin James, an All-Pro RB that season. It's a lot easier to pass when you have such an elite running threat, something Brady obviously didn't have.

See the poster above.

Moss didn't even lead his own team in receptions, Welker had 112 of them.

Which makes complete sense because Welker is the go to guy on shorter routes. So naturally he's going to have more receptions. We're talking about TDs tho. Look at the number of TDs. Face it, when it came time to put points on the board, Brady was locked in on Moss who put up just under 4x more TDs than the second place guy on the team.

Manning never had the luxury of throwing TDs to a player that could chew up almost any corner in the league just by jumping. Remember those routes Moss would run where he'd go into the endzone, Brady would just toss the ball up high and Moss would jump for it. That play was almost undefendable. You either let Moss outjump you, or you knock him down and its pass inter.

When Manning hit his record year he couldn't do that and he had to use his weapons evenly. He even hit Stokley for 10 TDs. Wayne had 12. Harrison had 15. Then some guys with 5, 6, etc. No one even close to 23.

Face it, Brady had a scarily elite receiving unit that he could use to march down the field whichever way he wanted, and when it came time to get the TDs, he had the most dominant receiver in the game catching almost half of the touchdowns he used to set that record.

So whereas Manning set his record in less attempts/less games, using his offense more evenly and making stars out of guys like Brandon Stokley, Brady got to throw 23 touchdowns to Randy frickin' Moss!


Face it folks, Brady was clearly gunning for that record hard that year. And he did it by continuously looking endzone to arguable the single greatest WR ever to play the game, who also set a TD record that year! Not a coincidence. Must be nice to have a receiving corps so good that you can ignore guys like Welker, Stalworth and Gaffney when it comes to TD strikes and throw 23 to one guy, who happens to be probably the single most talented and athletic WR of his era, if not all time.
 
Last edited:
When it's all said and done QB's are judged by rings. I know Brady is better but he's got to get another ring before the public will acknowledge that he's the best.
 
His INTs that year were definitely very impressive.



See the poster above.



Which makes complete sense because Welker is the go to guy on shorter routes. So naturally he's going to have more receptions. We're talking about TDs tho. Look at the number of TDs. Face it, when it came time to put points on the board, Brady was locked in on Moss who put up just under 4x more TDs than the second place guy on the team.

Manning never had the luxury of throwing TDs to a player that could chew up almost any corner in the league just by jumping. Remember those routes Moss would run where he'd go into the endzone, Brady would just toss the ball up high and Moss would jump for it. That play was almost undefendable. You either let Moss outjump you, or you knock him down and its pass inter.

When Manning hit his record year he couldn't do that and he had to use his weapons evenly. He even hit Stokley for 10 TDs. Wayne had 12. Harrison had 15. Then some guys with 5, 6, etc. No one even close to 23.

Face it, Brady had a scarily elite receiving unit that he could use to march down the field whichever way he wanted, and when it came time to get the TDs, he had the most dominant receiver in the game catching almost half of the touchdowns he used to set that record.

So whereas Manning set his record in less attempts/less games, using his offense more evenly and making stars out of guys like Brandon Stokley, Brady got to throw 23 touchdowns to Randy frickin' Moss!


Face it folks, Brady was clearly gunning for that record hard that year. And he did it by continuously looking endzone to arguable the single greatest WR ever to play the game, who also set a TD record that year! Not a coincidence. Must be nice to have a receiving corps so good that you can ignore guys like Welker, Stalworth and Gaffney when it comes to TD strikes and throw 23 to one guy, who happens to be probably the single most talented and athletic WR of his era, if not all time.

I do not understand your point.

One HOF Receiver in Moss vs. 2 Pro bowl receivers in Wayne/Harrison is your argument for what exactly? You act as if Manning set a record throwing to nobodies but he's had 2 pro bowl receivers for the bulk of his career.

And if you want to get on this topic then you must admit that Brady is a better QB because while Manning was throwing to Wayne/Harrison for most of his career, Brady had guys like Brown, Patten, Branch, Givens, and still put up comparable numbers.

Simply "using your offense more evenly" does NOT prove that your overall weapons were worse. You aren't making a lot of sense.
 
Updated, for the first 10 years now. (No stats from 2010 included)

TDs
Brady: 225
Montana: 159

INTs
Brady: 102
Montana: 99

Yards
Brady: 30,844
Montana: 27,533

NFL MVP
Brady: 1
Montana: 0

Super Bowl Championships
Brady: 3
Montana: 3

Conference Championships
Brady: 4
Montana: 3

Playoff Record
Brady: 14-4
Montana: 10-4

Do note, Brady has started 14 additional regular season games through his first 10 years compared to Montana.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


New Patriots WR Javon Baker: ‘You ain’t gonna outwork me’
Friday Patriots Notebook 5/3: News and Notes
Thursday Patriots Notebook 5/2: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 5/1: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Jerod Mayo’s Appearance on WEEI On Monday
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/30: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Drake Maye’s Interview on WEEI on Jones & Mego with Arcand
MORSE: Rookie Camp Invitees and Draft Notes
Patriots Get Extension Done with Barmore
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/29: News and Notes
Back
Top