Brady vs. Montana: First 9 years

[patsfan-1982]

yes bradys stats are better then montana through the first 9 yers but the team around montana got better after that they averaged 13 wins a season and won back to back super bowls in 89 and 90 right now the team around brady is geting worst.

 

[Patjew]

yes bradys stats are better then montana through the first 9 yers but the team around montana got better after that they averaged 13 wins a season and won back to back super bowls in 89 and 90 right now the team around brady is geting worst.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Things change, though!

 

[Simkin]

yes bradys stats are better then montana through the first 9 yers but the team around montana got better after that they averaged 13 wins a season and won back to back super bowls in 89 and 90 right now the team around brady is geting worst.

that 's not brady fault .

Remember uncapped years and SF had the money to do it .

 

[Bostonian1962]

To me, this simply shows that stats can lie. First, let me say that I'm a Brady fan, and always want my team's (New England teams) players to be considered the best. I'm biased.

However, Brady is no Montana. Montana seemingly usually won "big games". People think about all Montana's Super Bowl performances, and must remember that he NEVER threw a Super Bowl interception.

He had 31 4th Quarter comebacks, earning the nickname The Comeback Kid.

Montana would take over big games, and be in total control, looking so cool out there (which reminds me of his other nickname Joe Cool.)

Watching Montana, when certain games were huge games and got all the hype, you just knew he would pick the opposing team apart. You just knew he wasn't going to let SF lose.

They didn't win all the games, but all I know is that in 4 Super Bowls, Montana NEVER once threw and interception, and that's going against the best AFC Team in the league.

If I'm honest with myself, many of the truly big, and most hyped games over the last few years (a couple of Denver ones, a couple against Miami, several against Indy including the AFC Championship game, this years first game against the Jets, the game against Denver, the game against Indy, and of course the playoff game against the Ravens. Not even to mention the Super Bowl against the Giants.), and Brady hasn't been the difference. He hasn't been that cool gun slinger that just said to the team, "don't worry, I got this", like Montana would always do.

We all remember the games, when Brady pouted like a two year old afterwards. Did you EVER see Montana do that?

The best always worked harder than everybody. They would study more film. They would live in the gym. When Brady was doing that, the team won Super Bowls. Now, he's not one of the offseason award winners. We don't get offseason pictures of him at Gillette. We get picture after picture of him in one country or another, being fed grapes on a beach. Let me repeat, I am not slamming the man, he can spend his free time how he wants. The point is, if I were a professional athlete, with a limited shelf life, and particularly if I were suppose to be a team leader/QB, there would be NOBODY that spent more time trying to get better. Brady was that once. Many can still be that way, when they get married and have kids. Brady never figured out how to do that.

Please don't slam me for this. I love Brady. Montana was the best of all time. Brady is not.

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

God why did Tyree have to catch that ducking ball

 

[Sivy]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

God why did Tyree have to catch that ducking ball

Because once again, the refs failed to do their job by blowing the whistle when Eli was in the grasp.

 

[FootballFan85]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Because once again, the refs failed to do their job by blowing the whistle when Eli was in the grasp.

Is there anything some people won't blame the refs for?

First of all, "in the grasp" is a judgement call that the ref is to make based on his perception of the QBs safety. What is in the grasp? One hand on the jersey? An arm wrapped around? Two arms wrapped around? That is one of the most wide open rules in the entire book.

Secondly, Eli Manning makes a great play shaking off a sack and you complain because the refs didn't blow him dead based on a rule that is meant to protect him, at a key moment in the biggest game of the year.

Imagine for a second the situation was reversed and it was the Pats down and Brady in Eli's position. If the refs blow that play dead there would be a massive uproar about how the refs stole the game and that he should've been allowed to try and break the tackle and make the pass.

Sometimes I read the posts on here and I wonder if the people writing them have ever played a sport in their entire lives. Nothing screams loser more than consistently blaming the refs for everything.

 

[BradyManny]

The best always worked harder than everybody. They would study more film. They would live in the gym. When Brady was doing that, the team won Super Bowls. Now, he's not one of the offseason award winners. We don't get offseason pictures of him at Gillette. We get picture after picture of him in one country or another, being fed grapes on a beach. Let me repeat, I am not slamming the man, he can spend his free time how he wants. The point is, if I were a professional athlete, with a limited shelf life, and particularly if I were suppose to be a team leader/QB, there would be NOBODY that spent more time trying to get better. Brady was that once. Many can still be that way, when they get married and have kids. Brady never figured out how to do that.

I get sick of reading posts like this. Every reporter who covers this Patriot team said Brady was around Gillette more than any other player this year, and that his work ethic was higher than ever. So I don't know why fans make up crap like this. It's actually kind of pathetic that people jump to these conclusions when a guy gets married or has a kid, or whatever. You really have to question the maturity of a person who makes those leaps.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Sometimes I read the posts on here and I wonder if the people writing them have ever played a sport in their entire lives. Nothing screams loser more than consistently blaming the refs for everything.

I don't like blaming the refs either.

I've never blamed SB42 on the refs, even though if they choked down the stretch (or at least the clock operator did). But while I may agree with your sentiment, it comes off a little silly coming from a Colts fan, who are to the NFL what Lebron or Jordan are to the NBA when it comes to refereeing. You guys get a lot of star calls, and I think even Colts fans acknowledge that.

 

[Ryan]

I'm not saying Brady is better than Montana or anything, but it's not like Montana was perfect. The 49ers were 1 and done 3 straight years under him. One of those losses was a 49-3 blowout. Another one was 17-3. And yet, he went on to win 2 more Super Bowls. So that should show you 2 things:

A) Brady being blown out by Baltimore shouldn't affect him when it comes to comparing him to Montana

and

B) Good teams CAN bounce back from awful playoff losses

 

[Sivy]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Is there anything some people won't blame the refs for?

First of all, "in the grasp" is a judgement call that the ref is to make based on his perception of the QBs safety. What is in the grasp? One hand on the jersey? An arm wrapped around? Two arms wrapped around? That is one of the most wide open rules in the entire book.

Secondly, Eli Manning makes a great play shaking off a sack and you complain because the refs didn't blow him dead based on a rule that is meant to protect him, at a key moment in the biggest game of the year.

Imagine for a second the situation was reversed and it was the Pats down and Brady in Eli's position. If the refs blow that play dead there would be a massive uproar about how the refs stole the game and that he should've been allowed to try and break the tackle and make the pass.

Sometimes I read the posts on here and I wonder if the people writing them have ever played a sport in their entire lives. Nothing screams loser more than consistently blaming the refs for everything.

I've played plenty of sports in my life.

Yes its a judgement call, but how far does that "judgement" go. Ive sceen plenty of plays since and before that where the QB is "in the grasp" for far less time, than what eli was on that play...I dont give a crap how awsome of of sports guy you think you are because you dont blame the refs...The biggest problem in the nfl is the lack of consistency from the refs week in and week out...Dont get me started on PI, you cant sit there, in your awsome wisdom of the game and tell me that PI calls on the colts oppents over the years havent been straight up Bull sht! Yea, I do blame the refs when they need to be blamed...I didnt blame them this past sunday when the ravens won, but I blammed them when the pats got screwed on a bad PI call against the colts, and a bad spot of the ball. I didnt blame them when N.O. beat NE, but I did blame them when they failed to throw two flags agains AZ when they clearly roughed the passer and had a huge face mask on GB this past weekend.

The refs are not always the reason for a win or a loss...but they are more often then the should be.

 

[FootballFan85]

No one is disputing that bad calls happen. In fact they happen ALL the time. Every game.

Welcome to sports. That's what happens when games are officiated by human beings. Any sport like football or hockey with constant action and a need for split second judgments will always be full of poor calls.

The difference is, winners don't blame their losses on the refs. They look at what they could have done better to win.

You say the Pats were screwed because a ref missed an "in the grasp" call (which is a judgement call. And I'm sure your judgement as a completely biased Pats fan is much better than a professional NFL officials).

Yet you didn't mention the dropped INT that could have finished off the Giants? You didn't mention that the Patriots only scored FOURTEEN points in the game.

Why did that ball get caught? Convenient Answer: Refs screwed the Pats.
Real answer: Eli Manning made a great effort to get free from a sack, tossed up a pass on a prayer and David Tyree made a very lucky, yet very good, catch while being covered tightly.

Say what you want, but the fact of the matter is, plays can be decided by the refs, entire games almost never are. And in this case, your example of the ref costing the Pats the SB because Eli was 'in the grasp' is laughable.

Its literally sad when people overlook the shortcomings of their own or a teams performance in a game and just focus on what the refs did.

 

[Ring 6]

To me, this simply shows that stats can lie. First, let me say that I'm a Brady fan, and always want my team's (New England teams) players to be considered the best. I'm biased.

However, Brady is no Montana. Montana seemingly usually won "big games". People think about all Montana's Super Bowl performances, and must remember that he NEVER threw a Super Bowl interception.

He had 31 4th Quarter comebacks, earning the nickname The Comeback Kid.

Montana would take over big games, and be in total control, looking so cool out there (which reminds me of his other nickname Joe Cool.)

Watching Montana, when certain games were huge games and got all the hype, you just knew he would pick the opposing team apart. You just knew he wasn't going to let SF lose.

They didn't win all the games, but all I know is that in 4 Super Bowls, Montana NEVER once threw and interception, and that's going against the best AFC Team in the league.

If I'm honest with myself, many of the truly big, and most hyped games over the last few years (a couple of Denver ones, a couple against Miami, several against Indy including the AFC Championship game, this years first game against the Jets, the game against Denver, the game against Indy, and of course the playoff game against the Ravens. Not even to mention the Super Bowl against the Giants.), and Brady hasn't been the difference. He hasn't been that cool gun slinger that just said to the team, "don't worry, I got this", like Montana would always do.

We all remember the games, when Brady pouted like a two year old afterwards. Did you EVER see Montana do that?

The best always worked harder than everybody. They would study more film. They would live in the gym. When Brady was doing that, the team won Super Bowls. Now, he's not one of the offseason award winners. We don't get offseason pictures of him at Gillette. We get picture after picture of him in one country or another, being fed grapes on a beach. Let me repeat, I am not slamming the man, he can spend his free time how he wants. The point is, if I were a professional athlete, with a limited shelf life, and particularly if I were suppose to be a team leader/QB, there would be NOBODY that spent more time trying to get better. Brady was that once. Many can still be that way, when they get married and have kids. Brady never figured out how to do that.

Please don't slam me for this. I love Brady. Montana was the best of all time. Brady is not.

I think you misremember a lot.
Montana was a good clutch player, but not the infallible God you make him out to be. You criticize Brady for playoff losses, of which he has 4 in his life, yet believe Montana always won, when his record was not as good.
As far as calling Brady a whiner, Child Please.

You criticize Brady for not winning big games 'the last few years'? A few is 3. He is 29-8 in 3 years.

Of course you then go on to say that Brady doesnt work as hard as he used to. Are you stalking him? How could you possibly have any such idea?
I guess that him being fully ready by the start of training camp after the knee injury happened because he was lazy or something.

Joe Montana was a great QB, and he and Brady are neck and neck in any comparison, right at the top of the list. You should get your facts straight before trying to detail the small difference between the 2.

 

[Michael]

Anyone catch the NFCC championship game from 1982 (49ers vs Cowboys) they aired on the NFL Network around Christmas? One thing that jumped out was that Montana was really good at avoiding the pass rush. But, players weren't as fast then. He made mistakes, got picked a few times etc. Brady and Montana are both just two guys that are pretty dam good in the QB position. They're human. They have moments of greatness in between lots of mundane.

 

[pheenix11]

Forget in the grasp, the Giants OL was holding like a mofo on the miracle catch. Christ, one of them had one of the Patriot's facemasks in his hands.

 

[Bostonian1962]

I get sick of reading posts like this. Every reporter who covers this Patriot team said Brady was around Gillette more than any other player this year, and that his work ethic was higher than ever. So I don't know why fans make up crap like this. It's actually kind of pathetic that people jump to these conclusions when a guy gets married or has a kid, or whatever. You really have to question the maturity of a person who makes those leaps.

Are you living in a $%#^ cave? "Every reporter who covers this Patriot team said Brady was around Gillette more than any other player this year"? Tell that to Gostokowski, Kaczur Mayo, Morris, Neal, Sanders Watson, Welker, and Wright, all Workout attendance Parking Space winners this year. Brady did NOT win one. He didn't last year either, saying "there are other things that have come up in my life" that have influenced how much time he can spend on football. If you don't believe me, I've provide some links for you. Brady HIMSELF is saying this, so your comment about me making up "crap like this", is wrong.

I don't usually argue on this board with people like you that say stupid things. But, if you were a real fan, you would know all this. Pathetic! I will not be responding anymore.

I challenge you to provide me ONE reporter's story that says Brady was in Gillette "more than any other player this year". You can't, because he wasn't. I can provide links for my position though.

Links:


New England Patriots Hand Out 8 Belichick-Offseason Awards | Bleacher Report

 Patriots training camp postcard - Don Banks - SI.com

In first practice, Brady passes on throwing; Notes

Tom Brady’s new approach - BostonHerald.com

 

[Patjew]

Anyone catch the NFCC championship game from 1982 (49ers vs Cowboys) they aired on the NFL Network around Christmas? One thing that jumped out was that Montana was really good at avoiding the pass rush. But, players weren't as fast then. He made mistakes, got picked a few times etc. Brady and Montana are both just two guys that are pretty dam good in the QB position. They're human. They have moments of greatness in between lots of mundane.

Well I've heard some crazy things about Brady here, but that may take the cake.

 

[Sivy]

No one is disputing that bad calls happen. In fact they happen ALL the time. Every game.

Welcome to sports. That's what happens when games are officiated by human beings. Any sport like football or hockey with constant action and a need for split second judgments will always be full of poor calls.

The difference is, winners don't blame their losses on the refs. They look at what they could have done better to win.

You say the Pats were screwed because a ref missed an "in the grasp" call (which is a judgement call. And I'm sure your judgement as a completely biased Pats fan is much better than a professional NFL officials).

Yet you didn't mention the dropped INT that could have finished off the Giants? You didn't mention that the Patriots only scored FOURTEEN points in the game.

Why did that ball get caught? Convenient Answer: Refs screwed the Pats.
Real answer: Eli Manning made a great effort to get free from a sack, tossed up a pass on a prayer and David Tyree made a very lucky, yet very good, catch while being covered tightly.

Say what you want, but the fact of the matter is, plays can be decided by the refs, entire games almost never are. And in this case, your example of the ref costing the Pats the SB because Eli was 'in the grasp' is laughable.

Its literally sad when people overlook the shortcomings of their own or a teams performance in a game and just focus on what the refs did.

Refs help the colts every single game.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

thanks. As I looked at this, it wasn't clear how you counted the "years." Joe just started one game in 79 and five in 80, plus 82 was strike shortened. I assumed you didn't include 2008 in Tommy's numbers and since he didn't start any games in 2000, I wasn't sure about that either.

So, I got curious and looked at Games Started by TB since he entered the league, according to a generally reliable source, Pro Football Reference.com (Pro-Football-Reference.com - Pro Football Statistics and History.)

According to them, Brady has started 127 games (including the one game in 08 against the Chiefs which he obviously left early). In order to do apples to apples I just took the games that Brady and Montana started, allowing that either one of them could have left any of those games at any time for any reason over the years. (The only more precise way to do this would be to look at minutes played in games started, which is kind of ridiculous.)

To date, Brady has started 127 games. Joe started 127 games between 1979 and the first three games of 1990, making it easy to just pull the stats on those three games.

Here's what a comparison of the two QB's through 127 Starts shows:

Wins: Joe 89, Tommy 97
Passing Yards: Joe 31,903, Tommy 30,844
Completions: J 2,660, T 2,672
Attempts: J 4,174, T 4,218
Comp Percent: J 63.7%; T 63.3%
TD's: J 220, T 225
INT's: J 108, T 99
INT/TD: J 2.04, T 2.27
Pass Rating: J 93.82, T 93.34

Joe was 34 at the start of the season when he started his 127th game, Tommy was 32.

They represent different eras and so comparisons are difficult to make; the Pass Rating stat in particular can be significantly impacted by rule changes.

So, in a sense Montana's stats are remarkable because he racked up a lot of them when the Defense could do everything short of mugging his receivers and before a lot of the rules protecting the QB. Otherwise, the numbers themselves are very similar, with a slight edge to Brady.

The only difference between these guys is one ring. We all know how close TB came to numbers four and five in 2006 and 2007.

 

[BradyManny]

Are you living in a $%#^ cave? "Every reporter who covers this Patriot team said Brady was around Gillette more than any other player this year"? Tell that to Gostokowski, Kaczur Mayo, Morris, Neal, Sanders Watson, Welker, and Wright, all Workout attendance Parking Space winners this year. Brady did NOT win one. He didn't last year either, saying "there are other things that have come up in my life" that have influenced how much time he can spend on football. If you don't believe me, I've provide some links for you. Brady HIMSELF is saying this, so your comment about me making up "crap like this", is wrong.

I don't usually argue on this board with people like you that say stupid things. But, if you were a real fan, you would know all this. Pathetic! I will not be responding anymore.

I challenge you to provide me ONE reporter's story that says Brady was in Gillette "more than any other player this year". You can't, because he wasn't. I can provide links for my position though.

Links:


New England Patriots Hand Out 8 Belichick-Offseason Awards | Bleacher Report

*Patriots training camp postcard - Don Banks - SI.com

In first practice, Brady passes on throwing; Notes

Tom Brady’s new approach - BostonHerald.com

Um, those are all from 2008.

Not 2009.

If you paid attention to this season, you would've seen all the articles on how Brady literally did not miss a practice, articles that talked about how the injury just increased his desire for the game, how he wants to play another 10 years, how he came in the morning his kid was born b/c Coach told him to, how Fred Taylor talked about how hard Brady works, etc., etc. I mean, literally a week ago some moron calling EEI espoused the same opinion you are now and Perillo shut him down, and said, just as I told you "Brady has been at Gillette as much as anybody". Again, Reiss has said the same thing and sold that tune all the way back since training camp. As have others.

Honestly, do you pay attention to this team at all?!? I refuse to believe someone who follows this team could be oblivious to what was probably the biggest theme of the offseason all the way through the end of the season, which was Brady's renewed passion for the game, and his ever-increasing role as a leader, and his unmatched work ethic. But, bravo, for somehow being the only person on patsfans who missed that.

So the next time you accuse me of living in a cave, you might want to find links that aren't outdated and actually load, b/c I don't care what Brady said in 2008. We were talking about 2009, and probably the only reason he didn't win the offseason award was b/c he was rehabbing from a blownout knee and therefore couldn't participate in everything that the non-injured player could. The Ed Block award probably means more than anything, as thats only given to one player.