Brady vs Ben?

[Wildo7]

Much as I like Big Ben, he is not in the top 5 of pocket passers

1. Brady
2. Manning (not the younger the version - aka Eli)
3. Palmer
4. Brees
5. Warner (even now) or Hasselback

Accuracy is the key skill in the pocket and Ben is shy of all of the above.

That's a little harsh. Palmer has been pretty average since the "VonOelhoffening"

 

[BradyFTW!]

Rookie stats misleading? Anyone can have a good/great year? Ben blew away just about every rookie record there is, nobody has ever even been close to doing what he did. No way Romo is better than Ben, but I'll give you Favre... he is the man. Manning, Brady, Favre in no particular order, then Ben. Why is everyone on the Romo bandwagon? The guy has barely played 16 games, no way he's better than Ben.

And the fact that you guys are still hanging your hats on his rookie year all these years later should tell you something...

 

[Drewwho]

Motorcycle driving ability: Brady>Roethlisberger
Number of appendix's: Brady>Roethlisberger

Number of appendix's = Zero for both! Brady had an emergency appendectomy while at Michigan.

 

[Brady_12]

Is there anything that Ben does better than Brady? This question should tell me who's real and who's a homer.

He may drive a motorcycle better than Brady. Oh, wait...

EDIT: Oops, didn't see Bruschi's post... oh well.

 

[Wildo7]

Appendices = the most overrated organ in the body

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

Since it's obvious nobody is going to give Ben the credit he deserves for his amazing mobility... so let's try something else.

Is there anything that Ben does better than Brady? This question should tell me who's real and who's a homer.

Much better at handing the ball off than Brady, but thats probably because he's got so much more experience at it than Brady.

 

[ClosingTime]

Regarding the point to starting this whole thread: are Steelers fans delusional because of this thread? Actually it proves quite the opposite. If you bother to read more than just the title to the thread (I don't ever visit the messageboard in question) you'll see most of the responses emphatically choose Brady. So who is delusional?

Th choice is obviously Brady. Only a blind person would choose otherwise at this point.

Ben is not as good as he was as a rookie and not as bad as he was last year. Perhaps he is somewhere in the middle...like this year. I think he is a good quarterback, maybe leading the next tier below Brady/Manning.

Not sure why I am even getting into this, but that's just uninformed. Ben is having by far his best season, much much better than as a rookie and better than when he won the SB. He, along with the defense, is carrying this team.

Ben has the Ryan Leaf thing about him - people will always overlook his faults because they fall in love with his physical attributes: size, speed, cannon arm, overall accuracy, and likable character.

Um....who ever fell in love with Leaf? And then you go on to call Leaf a likable character. Do you mean likable in the way **** Cheney is likable? I don't get your point.

The fact is Brady is the best quarterback. peyton is a slight notch below him and then there is a dropoff, but Ben is right there at 3-5. (Romo and Farve are the only ones that can objectively be put in this same space.)

 

[TIMEsteelersfan]

Congratulations guys... some of you are realistic, but generally speaking this is the first group of fans I've come across that just absolutely refuses to give Ben the credit he deserves. Anybody who wouldn't put Ben in at least the Top Five doesn't know the game of football. The guys a stud. He makes plays no other QB can make right now. And he's having the best year of his career... he's had two very solid seasons, one average/bad season and now the best one yet.

Keep watching guys him guys... you're watching a future HOFer if he stays healthy. He's got all the tools, everything but pass protection. Put Brady behind our pathetcic line and he's not doing much better than Ben is. Ben is very good at what he doesn, and no doubt a top five. Hasselback? LOL. Give me a break.

 

[TIMEsteelersfan]

ClosingTime... Right on. You couldn't be more right if you tried.

 

[Wildo7]

Congratulations guys... some of you are realistic, but generally speaking this is the first group of fans I've come across that just absolutely refuses to give Ben the credit he deserves. Anybody who wouldn't put Ben in at least the Top Five doesn't know the game of football. The guys a stud. He makes plays no other QB can make right now. And he's having the best year of his career... he's had two very solid seasons, one average/bad season and now the best one yet.

Keep watching guys him guys... you're watching a future HOFer if he stays healthy. He's got all the tools, everything but pass protection. Put Brady behind our pathetcic line and he's not doing much better than Ben is. Ben is very good at what he doesn, and no doubt a top five. Hasselback? LOL. Give me a break.

The problem with the question was the "at age 25" hypothesis. We can't ignore the benefit of hindsight. We know what Brady is capable of at and beyond age 25. BR could be good or he could stink or get injured constantly. And I think most people here would definitely put BR in the top 5.

 

[bradmahn]

Congratulations guys... some of you are realistic, but generally speaking this is the first group of fans I've come across that just absolutely refuses to give Ben the credit he deserves. Anybody who wouldn't put Ben in at least the Top Five doesn't know the game of football. The guys a stud. He makes plays no other QB can make right now. And he's having the best year of his career... he's had two very solid seasons, one average/bad season and now the best one yet.

Keep watching guys him guys... you're watching a future HOFer if he stays healthy. He's got all the tools, everything but pass protection. Put Brady behind our pathetcic line and he's not doing much better than Ben is. Ben is very good at what he doesn, and no doubt a top five. Hasselback? LOL. Give me a break.

So, wait, Roethlisberger has one top five season and he's a top five quarterback? Romo's playing quarterback better than anyone not named Brady, yet he doesn't deserve to be declared a better quarterback than Berger? That's some pretty good logic there. His first two year's in the league he was a game manager, and nothing more.

In games where he has had to throw thirty or more times, Roethlisberger is 5-7, throwing for 14 touchdowns and a ridiculously terrible 26 INTs. But he's great at running.

And Roethlisberger is a top five quarterback in this league today, but it's foolish to just ignore Romo as possibly being better than Ben.

 

[Sivy]

Rookie stats misleading? Anyone can have a good/great year? Ben blew away just about every rookie record there is, nobody has ever even been close to doing what he did. No way Romo is better than Ben, but I'll give you Favre... he is the man. Manning, Brady, Favre in no particular order, then Ben. Why is everyone on the Romo bandwagon? The guy has barely played 16 games, no way he's better than Ben.

Like ive said before, I hate tony romo and fully expect him to pull a manning in the play offs

 

[TIMEsteelersfan]

So, wait, Roethlisberger has one top five season and he's a top five quarterback? Romo's playing quarterback better than anyone not named Brady, yet he doesn't deserve to be declared a better quarterback than Berger? That's some pretty good logic there. His first two year's in the league he was a game manager, and nothing more.

In games where he has had to throw thirty or more times, Roethlisberger is 5-7, throwing for 14 touchdowns and a ridiculously terrible 26 INTs. But he's great at running.

Let me give you a lesson or two.

1. Top five has nothing to do with numbers... if you're hanging your hat on numbers alone your in rough shape. How many years did Jerome lead the leagu ein any rushing category? Zero. Seems he was pretty good. It's about wins and losses. Ben is 43-15.

2. Game manager eh? First team in AFC history to go 15-1, then went to a superbowl and won it in his second year. You don't get to that point if your QB can't make plays.

3. Ben's record throwing 30 or more passes was built during his terrible year last year. You break a windshield with your face, then have an appendectomy, then have a concussion all in a matter of two months and we'll see how you do. Last year is a total wash... he's better than that and anybody that watches football would know that. Oh and by the way... he never used his health as an excuse... he manned up and took full responsibility when everyone around him knew what the problem was.

 

[bradmahn]

Let me give you a lesson or two.

1. Top five has nothing to do with numbers... if you're hanging your hat on numbers alone your in rough shape. How many years did Jerome lead the leagu ein any rushing category? Zero. Seems he was pretty good. It's about wins and losses. Ben is 43-15.

2. Game manager eh? First team in AFC history to go 15-1, then went to a superbowl and won it in his second year. You don't get to that point if your QB can't make plays.

3. Ben's record throwing 30 or more passes was built during his terrible year last year. You break a windshield with your face, then have an appendectomy, then have a concussion all in a matter of two months and we'll see how you do. Last year is a total wash... he's better than that and anybody that watches football would know that. Oh and by the way... he never used his health as an excuse... he manned up and took full responsibility when everyone around him knew what the problem was.

Maybe he was absolutely terrible last year because he didn't have a great defense. How do the injuries translate to horrendous decision making?

His first two years he had a great to very good defense, a tremendous running game, and was asked to not make mistakes that would ruin the team's chances in those games. Of course he made plays, but he wasn't asked to win them games. He was absolutely not a top five quarterback in those times. You can't be considered as one of the five best at the position when your own coach doesn't want to give him the reins to the offense.

Last year he was dreadful (make all the excuses you want, he was one of the worst in the league). He's playing much better now, and now is the only time I would ever consider him top five in the league.

 

[Grogan's neck roll]

Let me give you a lesson or two.

1. Top five has nothing to do with numbers... if you're hanging your hat on numbers alone your in rough shape. How many years did Jerome lead the leagu ein any rushing category? Zero. Seems he was pretty good. It's about wins and losses. Ben is 43-15.

2. Game manager eh? First team in AFC history to go 15-1, then went to a superbowl and won it in his second year. You don't get to that point if your QB can't make plays.

3. Ben's record throwing 30 or more passes was built during his terrible year last year. You break a windshield with your face, then have an appendectomy, then have a concussion all in a matter of two months and we'll see how you do. Last year is a total wash... he's better than that and anybody that watches football would know that. Oh and by the way... he never used his health as an excuse... he manned up and took full responsibility when everyone around him knew what the problem was.

You know the 15-1 thing was a team record and he was throwing at a rate lower than most of the league that year right? He had a GREAT game in the playoffs against the Pats,...oh, wait, no he didn't.

 

[bradmahn]

You know the 15-1 thing was a team record and he was throwing at a rate lower than most of the league that year right? He had a GREAT game in the playoffs against the Pats,...oh, wait, no he didn't.

Don't forget the excellent quarterbacking he put on display against the Jets.

 

[Charlotte Pats Fan]

Let me give you a lesson or two.

1. Top five has nothing to do with numbers... if you're hanging your hat on numbers alone your in rough shape. How many years did Jerome lead the leagu ein any rushing category? Zero. Seems he was pretty good. It's about wins and losses. Ben is 43-15.

2. Game manager eh? First team in AFC history to go 15-1, then went to a superbowl and won it in his second year. You don't get to that point if your QB can't make plays.

3. Ben's record throwing 30 or more passes was built during his terrible year last year. You break a windshield with your face, then have an appendectomy, then have a concussion all in a matter of two months and we'll see how you do. Last year is a total wash... he's better than that and anybody that watches football would know that. Oh and by the way... he never used his health as an excuse... he manned up and took full responsibility when everyone around him knew what the problem was.

Fact
2004 - 17 TD
2005- 17 TD
2006 -18 TD but he attempted 100 more passes than each of the previous 2 years. What does Breaking his face have to do with 30 attempts per game? And how can you call last year a wash when his TD production was the same as his first 2 years?

 

[TIMEsteelersfan]

You know the 15-1 thing was a team record and he was throwing at a rate lower than most of the league that year right? He had a GREAT game in the playoffs against the Pats,...oh, wait, no he didn't.

Do you watch football? Ben made countless plays that year and we wouldn't have been in the championship game if he hadn't made those plays. He lead the league that year in yards per attempt.. which means what? When he was throwing, he was throwing downfield. Those plays don't matter though right? He was bad in the championship game so he must have been bad all year eh? Please. He's having his best year, he's not top five statistically and he's going to get better and better. As much as you seem to hate him now, I can't wait to see you in 5 years when he's got the experience Brady has.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Nobody here is denying that Ben is a very good QB right now. Realistically, though, this is the first year that he's been asked to take on the responsibilities of a top-tier QB, and, to his credit, he's getting the job done. IMO he's already passed Brees and Palmer as someone that I'd want to build a team around. He's pretty close to Romo, in my estimation, but you're just flat-out kidding yourself if you'd put him up with Manning and Brady. They're in their own league.

 

[Charlotte Pats Fan]

Do you watch football? Ben made countless plays that year and we wouldn't have been in the championship game if he hadn't made those plays. He lead the league that year in yards per attempt.. which means what? When he was throwing, he was throwing downfield. Those plays don't matter though right? He was bad in the championship game so he must have been bad all year eh? Please. He's having his best year, he's not top five statistically and he's going to get better and better. As much as you seem to hate him now, I can't wait to see you in 5 years when he's got the experience Brady has.

Can I borrow your cystal ball for awhile