Best article from Reiss in quite a while

[tanked_as_usual]

The Colts for comparison purposes have 35 drafted players average round of selection is 3.8. They have 8 players selected in the 1st round, 14 players selected in round 4 or later. They have 17 UDFAs and 15 FA and 1 UFA (a kicker we may know).

The Pats have 31 drafted players, average pick is 105 (mid 3rd). 7 1st round players, 9 Players drafted in round 4 or later, 15 UDFA, 4 UFA, 14 FA and 3 players from trades.

The Colts are generally held up as a great drafting team and you say you would rather have their roster than the Pats. The numbers show that the Pats draft is comparable to the Colts. The Pats have more UFAs and we've used 4 picks to acquire 3 players, two of whom are all pros. They have more UDFA (which according to your logic means they don't draft well). They have 4 more drafted players on their team but have one more 1st rounder and more late rounders which may mean they miss more in rounds 2 and 3 than the Pats.

You have been consistently been referring to the the past 5 years not since 2004, but that still doesn't change the my argument. The Pats are a good drafting team and a good team at evaluating and developing UDFA talent and the numbers back that up. They aren't perfect but they are also not the Lions, Rams, Bears, Bucs, or KC.

hahahah...LMFAO at you.......you fill a paragraph with garbage and the LALALALA I DON'T HEAR YOU.....

your first paragraph is baseless.......use names and examples instead of spinning

I didn't dismiss cassel.....in fact, I was the one who mentioned him.....but I still think he is a lousy QB

keep trying to say nothing........you are good at it

 

[Wretch]

we can include all rounds if you really like.......the 2nd and 3rd rounds have particularly been a joke....nothing like getting a collective next to zero out of bethel johnson, chad jackson, marquise hill (RIP), kevin oconnell, shawn crable, david thomas, ron brace......

continue to let me know how successfult the pats were with outstanding value for ben watson, laurence maroney, brandon meriweather, jerod mayo.......it is clear the ship is right on track for its next championship

This sums up why debating with you is fruitless. In order the 1st round selections you list are a solid pro starter, solid pro starter, pro bowler, and DROY.

As for the 2nd rounders I agree BB has missed too much, but Johnson wasn't a complete bust he was a good returner and Okay WR at worst I think you can say he was over drafted. Jackson, bust, Hill, we will never know, OConnell, bust, Thomas was a good player buried on a deep roster and with a skill set that isn't utilized by the Pats (receiving TE). The jury is out on Crable and Brace.

But we also have to give credit for the 2nd and 3rd rounder that have played out, Light, Vollmer, Butler, Chung, and Kaczur. McKenzie and Tate are still unknowns but based on there make ups and what we were able to see on the field with Tate I am hopeful.

According to a 10 year study the odds of a drafted player becoming a starter are:
First round – 75 percent
Second round – 50 percent
Third round – 30 percent
Fourth round – 25 percent
Fifth round – 20 percent
Sixth round – 9 percent
Seventh round – 9 percent
The Sports Economist

So the Pats record in round 2 and 3 aren't as bad as some would think.

 

[Wretch]

hahahah...LMFAO at you.......you fill a paragraph with garbage and the LALALALA I DON'T HEAR YOU.....

Ok I was wrong this is why debating with you is fruitless.

I didn't dismiss cassel.....in fact, I was the one who mentioned him.....but I still think he is a lousy QB

How is calling him lousy not dismissing him?

 

[tanked_as_usual]

This sums up why debating with you is fruitless. In order the 1st round selections you list are a solid pro starter, solid pro starter, pro bowler, and DROY.

As for the 2nd rounders I agree BB has missed too much, but Johnson wasn't a complete bust he was a good returner and Okay WR at worst I think you can say he was over drafted. Jackson, bust, Hill, we will never know, OConnell, bust, Thomas was a good player buried on a deep roster and with a skill set that isn't utilized by the Pats (receiving TE). The jury is out on Crable and Brace.

But we also have to give credit for the 2nd and 3rd rounder that have played out, Light, Vollmer, Butler, Chung, and Kaczur. McKenzie and Tate are still unknowns but based on there make ups and what we were able to see on the field with Tate I am hopeful.

According to a 10 year study the odds of a drafted player becoming a starter are:
First round – 75 percent
Second round – 50 percent
Third round – 30 percent
Fourth round – 25 percent
Fifth round – 20 percent
Sixth round – 9 percent
Seventh round – 9 percent
The Sports Economist

So the Pats record in round 2 and 3 aren't as bad as some would think.

mckenzie and tate are zeroes to date...

pats 2nd round since BB:
adrian klemm - 0,matt light - 1,deion branch - 1, bethel johnson - 0, eugene wilson - 1, marquise hill - 0, chad jackson - 0,terence wheatley - 0,connie chung - 0, ron brace - 0, darius butler - 1, sebastian vollmer - 1... <50%

round 3:
jr redmond - 0, brock williams - 0, guss scott - 0, ellis hobbs - 1, nick kaczur - 1, dave thomas - 0, shawn crable - 0, kevin oconnell - 0, brandon tate - 0, tyrone mckenzie - 0... 20%

below average on both counts my friend.........you're making my argument for me

it is obvious early on that he was better than average and the end result showed.........but the 2nd half is far below average and the result is playing itself out now

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Ok I was wrong this is why debating with you is fruitless.

any homer will find it fruitless to argue with me

How is calling him lousy not dismissing him?

because dismissing him would be saying he didn't happen........he did happen......but he still stinks.....another scott mitchell, rob johnson

 

[Wretch]

mckenzie and tate are zeroes to date...

pats 2nd round since BB:
adrian klemm - 0,matt light - 1,deion branch - 1, bethel johnson - 0, eugene wilson - 1, marquise hill - 0, chad jackson - 0,terence wheatley - 0,connie chung - 0, ron brace - 0, darius butler - 1, sebastian vollmer - 1... <50%

round 3:
jr redmond - 0, brock williams - 0, guss scott - 0, ellis hobbs - 1, nick kaczur - 1, dave thomas - 0, shawn crable - 0, kevin oconnell - 0, brandon tate - 0, tyrone mckenzie - 0... 20%

below average on both counts my friend.........you're making my argument for me

it is obvious early on that he was better than average and the end result showed.........but the 2nd half is far below average and the result is playing itself out now

Calling Brace and Chung zeroes is premature and I have already said Bethel wasn't worth a second rounder but was a key ST contributor. I will conceded Wheatley had a disappointing second year after a promising rookie year prior to the injury. Its premature to rate either McKenzie or Tate as busts as they were injured in their rookie years. So my evaluation of the players sits at >50% for 2nd and >30% for 3rds.

We just disagree.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Calling Brace and Chung zeroes is premature and I have already said Bethel wasn't worth a second rounder but was a key ST contributor. I will conceded Wheatley had a disappointing second year after a promising rookie year prior to the injury. Its premature to rate either McKenzie or Tate as busts as they were injured in their rookie years. So my evaluation of the players sits at >50% for 2nd and >30% for 3rds.

We just disagree.

well......based on YOUR litmus test, they are not starters, so what do you call them? I'm just going by your rules

this was the actual reason I didn't count the 2009 picks earlier......but if you're going to count vollmer, edelman, and butler as successes already, there is no other way to regard the others

I think you have to admit though that the drafts of 2004-2008 are why this team has so many holes now.......

 

[Wretch]

any homer will find it fruitless to argue with me

because dismissing him would be saying he didn't happen........he did happen......but he still stinks.....another scott mitchell, rob johnson

Actually I am not a homer and have said I am disappointed in the Pats drafting in the second and 3rd rounds. I am just not as pessimistic as you.

Cassel may prove to be another Scott Mitchell or Rob Johnson, but neither were busts, just serviceable players and NFL starters, not HOFers. If Cassel has careers like those two he will not be a bust or a waste of a pick.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Actually I am not a homer and have said I am disappointed in the Pats drafting in the second and 3rd rounds. I am just not as pessimistic as you.

Cassel may prove to be another Scott Mitchell or Rob Johnson, but neither were busts, just serviceable players and NFL starters, not HOFers. If Cassel has careers like those two he will not be a bust or a waste of a pick.

I'm not pessimistic......I am looking forward to the future, but that does not escape the fact that 2004-2008 were pretty poor draft years for the pats across the board

I like the 2009 draft, even though they have gotten nothing out of 3 picks in the first 3 rounds .... brace,tate,mckenzie...which I don't blame, that was just bad luck, but tate was known damaged good, with a proven guy like mike wallace waiting to be taken by the steelers with the next pick.....connor barwin or clint sintim would have made much more sense instead of brace, and this is not hindsight....I wanted both badly prior to last year's draft

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Actually I am not a homer and have said I am disappointed in the Pats drafting in the second and 3rd rounds. I am just not as pessimistic as you.

Cassel may prove to be another Scott Mitchell or Rob Johnson, but neither were busts, just serviceable players and NFL starters, not HOFers. If Cassel has careers like those two he will not be a bust or a waste of a pick.

no they weren't........they each had one good year, got traded for a high pick and crashed and burned...neither has anything to do with the pats draft, just pegging cassel for what he really is

 

[Wretch]

well......based on YOUR litmus test, they are not starters, so what do you call them? I'm just going by your rules

this was the actual reason I didn't count the 2009 picks earlier......but if you're going to count vollmer, edelman, and butler as successes already, there is no other way to regard the others

I think you have to admit though that the drafts of 2004-2008 are why this team has so many holes now.......

That isn't my litmus test, just a study showing how difficult it is to draft players with certainty.

Even if it was my litmus test it's based on a 10 year sample not 3 or 4 years.

Additionally lets give player more than 2 years before we declare them busts.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

WTF do you know?

instead of refuting anything, you revert to your homer, kool-aid guzzling ways and come up with your own brand of stupidity.....

prove me wrong......at least I did enough legwork to qualify the statement

its better than reverting to your hater, piss guzzling ways to come up with YOUR own brand of stupidity.

and what legwork? All i ever see from your posts is statements that the Pats cant draft. I havent seen anything to back it up. If i missed a post that included your facts, then i'll apologize. Until then, you're just a Pats hater who would be better off being a Lions fan.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

its better than reverting to your hater, piss guzzling ways to come up with YOUR own brand of stupidity.

and what legwork? All i ever see from your posts is statements that the Pats cant draft. I havent seen anything to back it up. If i missed a post that included your facts, then i'll apologize. Until then, you're just a Pats hater who would be better off being a Lions fan.

you should look through the thread, then apologize........I started a team by team comparison of rounds 4-7........I can keep going although it already makes the point quite well