Beisel and the new LBs coach...

[pats1]

Then announcers in the booth screw up credit for tackles, blocks, etc. all the time, no big whup unless you actually listen to them without garbage filters. How many times did Randy Cross and his partner call BB "Cowher" in that one game? (Miami?) As far as their call affecting a player's stats, I'm pretty sure there is an "official" scorer at the games - I recall Wilfork's "interception in the Oakland game was rescored as a fumble recovery the next day.

Right. The most recent play that comes to mind was a run by Anderson in which Seymour shed his block and then started the tackle, but another 3 guys (Warren, Wilfork, Vrabel) all essentially created a pile to finish off the stop. Warren was credited, at least in the play-by-play, with a solo tackle.

 

[mcsully]

Stats also don't record things like getting penetration or setting great edge containment to force runs into the grasp of tacklers. Colvin had many of such plays in the game. Bruschi, as I can remember, got driven into the ground by a good number of blockers.

You had me going until this statement. Stats should only be used to backup an agrument. Unless two people, who have two different perspectives, sit down and watch the same tape and debate over a play, the view of "getting penetration or seeting great edge containment" can't be used.
A players role might be to contain while another rushes.. You can't judge who had a great game by that point.. We would be here for 100 years debating the issue over who "contains" better..

The fact is, the patriots front 7 played awesome and shut down one of the best running teams in the NFL. They worked as a team.
This thread is about Biesel, not this and that.

Joker is right (and apparently is a loud angry person.. if you don't want to be viewed in this way, then don't type in CAPS and/or give a few minutes away from keyboard before responding), the stats prove that no LB had a better game then another. Vrabel had a sack but maybe in order to get that play (and this is just a theory) McGinnest had to contain.. How can you slight either player?? They were doing their job..

I'm looking forward to some proof that Beisel will be a starter this year. My belief is there is a serious chance he might not make it out of Training camp..

 

[mcsully]

Right. The most recent play that comes to mind was a run by Anderson in which Seymour shed his block and then started the tackle, but another 3 guys (Warren, Wilfork, Vrabel) all essentially created a pile to finish off the stop. Warren was credited, at least in the play-by-play, with a solo tackle.

Are we assuming that annoucers keep stats? I'm positive someone else does. Annoucers are there just to give a general feeling of the game. The good ones are the ones that tell you something you don't already see or feel..

 

[pats1]

You had me going until this statement. Stats should only be used to backup an agrument. Unless two people, who have two different perspectives, sit down and watch the same tape and debate over a play, the view of "getting penetration or seeting great edge containment" can't be used.
A players role might be to contain while another rushes.. You can't judge who had a great game by that point.. We would be here for 100 years debating the issue over how "contains" better..

The fact is, the patriots front 7 played awesome and shut down one of the best running teams in the NFL. They worked as a team.
This thread is about Biesel, not this and that.

Joker is right (and apparently is a loud angry person.. if you don't want to be viewed in this way, then don't type in CAPS and/or give a few minutes away from keyboard before responding), the stats prove that no LB had a better game then another. Vrabel had a sack but maybe in order to get that play (and this is just a theory) McGinnest had to contain.. How can you slight either play?? They were doing their job..

I'm looking forward to some proof that Beisel will be a starter this year. My belief is there is a serious chance he might not make it out of Training camp..

The only playing time he got in the playoffs was in goal line situations. I'll have to check the New Years' Miami game to see how he performed there, especially with Bruschi out.

 

[mcsully]

The only playing time he got in the playoffs was in goal line situations. I'll have to check the New Years' Miami game to see how he performed there, especially with Bruschi out.

And the Jaguar Game.

Here is his stats when given a chance. Two games, a total of 4 tackles.
in week 11, 13, 14 and 15 (when the defense came around and stepped up) he didn't even play..

 

[spacecrime]

Seriously, I need to see some stats or a trained eye (sorry for the poke), I went to every game and they guy never appeared to be in the right position or when he was, he missed an open tackle.
My belief is that he is nothing more than a backup and won't be around after this year ( I still feel he might not even make it out of Training camp).

Make me believe he'll be around> I'll be objective about it.. Provide stats, video or some proof to change my mind. I see a lot of posts about Beisel and his improvement. Never saw it during the ENTIRE year.. What makes people think this?

no need to convince you 'cause it doesn't matter it you saw an imporvemnt or not. but if you really need something, re-watch any of the games later in the year. or wait until next year. doesn'tmatter though

 

[Joker]

Like many others have said, you'll get respect and whatever else you want if you just calm the hell down! Enough with the overreacting and virtual screaming.
I'm not overreacting...I'm reacting to your libels.If I was going toi give the impression of screamimg I'd use 8 point or 10 point fonts.If words printed on a style sheet affect your ears, seek help from a psychiatrist.

What do you want me to do? Post hundreds of MBs worth of game tape?
hundreds of MB's of game tape???to what...show Bruschi miss a tackle?...more on THIS further down...

As a unit, they certainly played great as a unit in the playoffs. Colvin was noticeably making the plays while Bruschi well, wasn't really.
Uh....this statement is just plain nutty . Colvin made four tackles playing the outside,Bruschi made four inside in the Denver game.Bruschi didn't play the Jax game, calf injury...guess anything Colvin did in that game HAD to be better than what Bruschi did.

The first play that comes to mind is a scramble by Plummer where Seymour and Green (I believe - or maybe Willie) pinched Plummer and forced him to run, but Bruschi was looking over Hobbs' way and yelling towards him, and didn't notice Plummer's scramble right away. By the time he did, it had gone for 16 yards and first down.
so....you see the defensive signal caller yelling at the rookie CB who has just taken over a starting spot and the reason eludes you? Hobbs out of position for the D called perhaps? Hmmmmm? Or are we to assume that the all pro linebacker is at fault for trying to correct a rookie's technique? Again, this an example of extreme bias used by you against Bruschi....you place all the responsibility for contain on a Plummer scramble on one player. Craziness.

On another play, Rod Smith went on a quick slant across the middle, and Bruschi turned his back to the QB, and then turned just his head back towards Plummer to the see the pass fly to his right and into Rod Smith's hands. Just when Bruschi saw the throw coming in, he stopped straight in his tracks and Hobbs ran into his back, giving Rod Smith an uncontested catch.
Nevermind that the Denver O calls plays to succeed, and that teams WILL hit plays during the game, what exactly is this supposed to prove about Bruschi supposedly having a bad game? He's supposed to cover the 4.3 speed of Smith on a quick slant? Hobbs is supposed to have Smith in front of him with Bruschi underneath on any slant. The fact that Hobbs ran into Bruschi only shows that HE,Hobbs, used the wrong technique. Now it's obvious YOU would like everyone to think that the All Pro veteran was at fault to further buttress your flawed argument , but I think I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to Bruschi here.

Compare this to a play where Chad Brown was brought in instead of Bruschi in the 3rd quarter in a 3-3-5 formation. Brown set up low and just took out out the crossing WR Charlie Adams to force Plummer, under pressure, to throw to Anderson trying to squeeze underneath Hawkins and above a chasing Vrabel. The pass fell short. Recall the January 2005 Colts game play where Vrabel (as a ILB) took out Dallas Clark trying to go across the middle in the endzone, forcing Manning to toss it up, where Geno dropped the interception.
Not sure where you going with THIS....you try to use a crossing pattern in a completely different defensive set to illustrate your argument that Bruschi misplayed a quick slant? This is ridiculous.

With the stats, they can be very misleading. Check my next post for one example. Stats also don't record things like getting penetration or setting great edge containment to force runs into the grasp of tacklers. Colvin had many of such plays in the game. Bruschi, as I can remember, got driven into the ground by a good number of blockers.
so...Colvin forced runs right in to Bruschi, who was driven into the ground by a "good number" of blockers...what...10 blockers....20 blockers? I'm sorry...we must be talking about two different games...here ...you look at the post game write-up by the Denver sports dept. at the Rocky Mountain news...
The Broncos should take great pride in themselves for knocking the champs out of the playoffs, but the only place on the stats sheet in which they dominated were in the lack-of-turnovers category (one versus five), penalty yardage (24 yards of infractions to New England's 82), and rushing yardage (96-78). That last statistic is definitely noteworthy, since Denver entered the game as supposedly the best running team in the NFL, and its running game was unquestionably shut down for the greater part of the night by the Patriots' rush defense. Denver won despite getting manhandled in total offensive yardage (420 to 286) in the contest, and many observers had a tough time crowning the Broncos as the superior team overall.

"and its running game was unquestionably shut down for the greater part of the night by the Patriots' rush defense. Denver won despite getting manhandled in total offensive yardage "...sort of blows 10 foot howitzer holes in your "Bruschi was terrible in the Denver game" argument.

And when I do these breakdowns, I won't even look at the stats first. That diminishes my objectivity and gives me a scope of "who played better" before I even watch a minute of the tape.

Now it is quite obvious you have an agenda re: Tedy Bruschi...it is also quite obvious that you crave acknowledgement for your football knowledge...but the two are in direct opposition to one another. I don't know why you went to such lengths to denigrate the play of Bruschi...perhaps you are the type of person that sees another human being who has had serious medical issues as damaged goods, and somebody to be denigrated and degraded by any skewed logic available to you.

Or perhaps you are one of these Uber-Fantasy Football geniuses who look at a Bruschi and see "too short, too weak, too slow,damaged goods...I would upgrade this position if I were coach of the Patriots"....well, if that's the case, I feel sorry for you.I want to close by posting the opinions of the Denver Bronco players about this man that you so casually throw under the bus....

DENVER -- The difference is startling. Watching tape of the New England Patriots playing with and without linebacker Tedy Bruschi is, to many of the Denver Broncos, like watching two completely different teams.

"It would be the change in our team with and without Al" Wilson, fullback Kyle Johnson said Tuesday. "He's their team leader. It's the same difference if Baltimore has Ray Lewis playing."

A stroke forced Bruschi to begin the year on the physically unable to perform list. The stroke robbed him of some of his vision and motor skills. He was on the reserve list until Oct. 29.

The longer he's back, the better he looks. He was flying over blockers to chase down quarterbacks in games against Miami and New Orleans. The Patriots won both games.

"I think you saw in those two games the emotional potion he brings to their team," Johnson said. "He brings added intensity and a change to that team."

In college, Jake Plummer played at Arizona State at the same time Bruschi played at Arizona.

"I saw enough of that when we were both in college," Plummer said.

Bruschi sat out New England's playoff game with Jacksonville with a calf injury. Coach Bill Belichick wouldn't tip his hand about the linebacker's availability in the game against Denver on Saturday, although Bruschi wasn't listed on the injury report.

 

[pats1]

Now it is quite obvious you have an agenda re: Tedy Bruschi...it is also quite obvious that you crave acknowledgement for your football knowledge...but the two are in direct opposition to one another. I don't know why you went to such lengths to denigrate the play of Bruschi...perhaps you are the type of person that sees another human being who has had serious medical issues as damaged goods, and somebody to be denigrated and degraded by any skewed logic available to you.

Or perhaps you are one of these Uber-Fantasy Football geniuses who look at a Bruschi and see "too short, too weak, too slow,damaged goods...I would upgrade this position if I were coach of the Patriots"....well, if that's the case, I feel sorry for you.I want to close by posting the opinions of the Denver Bronco players about this man that you so casually throw under the bus....

DENVER -- The difference is startling. Watching tape of the New England Patriots playing with and without linebacker Tedy Bruschi is, to many of the Denver Broncos, like watching two completely different teams.

"It would be the change in our team with and without Al" Wilson, fullback Kyle Johnson said Tuesday. "He's their team leader. It's the same difference if Baltimore has Ray Lewis playing."

A stroke forced Bruschi to begin the year on the physically unable to perform list. The stroke robbed him of some of his vision and motor skills. He was on the reserve list until Oct. 29.

The longer he's back, the better he looks. He was flying over blockers to chase down quarterbacks in games against Miami and New Orleans. The Patriots won both games.

"I think you saw in those two games the emotional potion he brings to their team," Johnson said. "He brings added intensity and a change to that team."

In college, Jake Plummer played at Arizona State at the same time Bruschi played at Arizona.

"I saw enough of that when we were both in college," Plummer said.

Bruschi sat out New England's playoff game with Jacksonville with a calf injury. Coach Bill Belichick wouldn't tip his hand about the linebacker's availability in the game against Denver on Saturday, although Bruschi wasn't listed on the injury report.

Are you kidding me?

Number one, there are few people out there who love Tedy more than I do. Mrs. B, of course, comes to mind as one of those.

Number two, this was just one of many, many observations I've made. Since it would be on topic here, I'd thought I'd share it. I'm not trying to denigrate the guy in any way. People are so obsessed with the stroke and his comeback that if you don't laud the guy endlessly and don't claim he hasn't changed since a few years ago it's blasphemy! Right when I mentioned the observation, I explicitly said "I'll probably get chastised for saying this...," simply because I know there are people ou there who'll see it as heartless disrepsect not to praise Bruschi.

Number three, I've always hated Fantasy Football for the exact reasons you stated!

Essentially, I simply mention that I felt Colvin and Vrabel played better than Bruschi, throw a few examples out onto the table, add my scope was only for a single game and that I'm not targeting him for the loss, and yet, I'm practically burned at the stake as a heretic! Thou shalt not question an All-Pro veteran!

Again, I never said he was terrible and never blamed him for the loss. I certainly see him as part of the squad that had its strong points against Denver, but I also see him as part of the squad that had it's low points. But what I was really trying to dig at is, watching his contributions, plays, effort, role, etc. in 2004 and before, and then comparing it to what I saw his role to be (determined by the team, not me!) squarely in the Denver game (his calf injury might have something to do with it), there was unquestionably a difference. Difficult to pinpoint at that.

The fact that Hobbs ran into Bruschi only shows that HE,Hobbs, used the wrong technique.

And I'm supposed to be the one with an agenda for/against drawing a conclusion without evidence to support it?

you place all the responsibility for contain on a Plummer scramble on one player. Craziness.

From what I saw, Bruschi was in a spy/zone on that play. Plummer was scrambling right at Bruschi, who was looking over towards the sideline until he finally turned, reacted, and forced Plummer to slide...after 16 yards gained.

"and its running game was unquestionably shut down for the greater part of the night by the Patriots' rush defense. Denver won despite getting manhandled in total offensive yardage "...sort of blows 10 foot howitzer holes in your "Bruschi was terrible in the Denver game" argument.

Again, you're deriving how Bruschi as AN INDIVIDUAL performed by how the team defense performed. The team defense might have performed well, but that doesn't mean every player performed equally and to the level the entire group played.

What I'm getting at with that is, in the past (2004, 2003, etc.), when the team defense performed well, it was mainly because Bruschi performed a cut above. He WAS the defense. But when the team defense performed well in Denver, it was players like Colvin and Seymour who made the contributions to the team defense that Bruschi made in years past. Bruschi was still a piece to that success, but just not like he has been in the past.

 

[mcsully]

no need to convince you 'cause it doesn't matter it you saw an imporvemnt or not. but if you really need something, re-watch any of the games later in the year. or wait until next year. doesn'tmatter though

Isn't this a forum? I'm open for other people's opinions and trying to determine why they see what they see. I've watched the games, gone to them and even looked at the mans stats.
Maybe it won't change the world and it really doesn't matter, but kinda the whole point of a forum with threads is to discuss your view point.
My view point is he has never shown anything in his time spent with us and if you back track, even in K.C. he didn't how anything.

The continued replies of now backing of facts or "doesn't matter" shows that someone with a high post really has nothing much to say except "Tom Brady is awesome".. over and over..

 

[DaBruinz]

Here is my POINT OF VIEW:

1. From my time spent watching the Patriots, Beisel looked lost, a step behind and not athletic enough to make up for his inexperience..

Beisel is actually very athletic. There were 3 problems that Beisel had last year. 1) Over-pursuing. 2) Trying to tackle too high. 3) Learning a new position entirely.

2. D. PEE's has a new position and this is really his 1st challenge. There is no history of PEE turnign around a player

The coach's name is Dean Pees. Pees has 15 years experience as a College Defenisve Coordinator and at teaching ILBs. Including 3 years under Nick Saban at Michigan State.

He comes for K.C. that was had a strong defense, he couldn't even start or break the lineup.

Beisel started 9 games for KC at MLB. You have to remember that he was changing positions from DE to MLB. So, to knock him for that shows a lack of understanding about what it really takes to make the switch. Heck, even Bruschi said it took him a few years to get fully comfortable with the switch from DE to OLB and then from OLB to ILB. The Pats were asking Beisel to make the switch instantly. Which was totally unfair.

4. As the year went on, he played less, not more.. He wasn't even in the rotation a majority of the time.. And I believe the LBer named Chad played more than him at points in the year.

Once Bruschi and Vrabel were moved inside, Beisel and Brown were both relegated to the bench. There were times that Brown went it as a nickel LB or as a D-lineman lining up over the center. However, Beisel was still in on goal-line plays.

Just a few off the top of my head but if I hear a good argument, I'll change my tune and support him.

From what I can see, you are basing what you saw of him at the games. Well, from experience, you miss a lot of stuff not having it on the TV. Also, you are acting as if Beisel is a 5 or 6 year pro who has spent his entire career at ILB. He's not. Last year was his 1st year as an ILB. He was brought in to learn the position so that he could, potentially be a starter down the line. It was a series of unfortunate events that thrust him into the starting role. One that he was clearly not ready for, but one, in which, he did his damdest to do his best at.

 

[DaBruinz]

"caught out of position a few times", "made a few mental mistakes"...what a load of bull

Cite each and every mental mistake he made

delineate the exact position called for on these plays where he was "out of position"

Last time I looked you were a fan just like everybody else...stop the "Vince Lombardi" impersonations, "coach".The Patriots D and Willie and Bruschi were NOT anywhere near responsible for that loss. The defense played BETTER than Denver's you IDIOT!

Nothing like proving how much of an arse you truly are Joker. Pats1 and Box clearly show more knowledge about the game than you have in your 30 some-odd years of watching the team. How about you keep your opinions to yourself for a change unless you can actually be productive.

 

[mcsully]

Beisel is actually very athletic. There were 3 problems that Beisel had last year. 1) Over-pursuing. 2) Trying to tackle too high. 3) Learning a new position entirely.



The coach's name is Dean Pees. Pees has 15 years experience as a College Defenisve Coordinator and at teaching ILBs. Including 3 years under Nick Saban at Michigan State.



Beisel started 9 games for KC at MLB. You have to remember that he was changing positions from DE to MLB. So, to knock him for that shows a lack of understanding about what it really takes to make the switch. Heck, even Bruschi said it took him a few years to get fully comfortable with the switch from DE to OLB and then from OLB to ILB. The Pats were asking Beisel to make the switch instantly. Which was totally unfair.

Once Bruschi and Vrabel were moved inside, Beisel and Brown were both relegated to the bench. There were times that Brown went it as a nickel LB or as a D-lineman lining up over the center. However, Beisel was still in on goal-line plays.



From what I can see, you are basing what you saw of him at the games. Well, from experience, you miss a lot of stuff not having it on the TV. Also, you are acting as if Beisel is a 5 or 6 year pro who has spent his entire career at ILB. He's not. Last year was his 1st year as an ILB. He was brought in to learn the position so that he could, potentially be a starter down the line. It was a series of unfortunate events that thrust him into the starting role. One that he was clearly not ready for, but one, in which, he did his damdest to do his best at.

Wow it always makes me think twice when someone breaks down posts in this manner..
But what I've taken from your post:

1. I agree with all 3 problems (can he over come them?)
2. D. Pee's has good experience in college but this is his first in the pro's as DC. Steve Spurrier had great success in college, never translated to pro's. You just never know. My statement was he hasn't shown it at this position yet.
3. See your point about taking time. And I will definitely AGREE with you on that. Maybe he was thinking to much and caused him to react instead of being proactive..
4. Actually seeing a game in person, you get to see A LOT more than on TV. Never mind that fact i have TIVO and would rewatch it during the week
Again, I like you am not a pro but someone said Hawkins picked up the conversion to Saftey in no time. Beisel got worse and played less as the time went on..

Being objective, The pats lack depth at the LB position. If he could turn around his play from last year, it would benefit the Patriots down the road.
I just won't be holding my breath..

 

[DaBruinz]

No.I don't remember what anybody writes "about" me. When I see condescending holier than thou pontifications like that crap you posted I respond. Grow some thicker skin.

You are sure one to SLING the mud, there, Joker. The only HOLIER THAN THOU Pontificating in this thread is coming from you. There was NOTHING condescending about Pats1's post. I suggest you learn what ponificating really means before you use the words.

that's YOUR opinion...not F-A-C-T...you have NO IDEA how the defense graded out individually. If Belichick said that Colvin andVrabel "played better" then I'll accept THAT. Just because you say so doesn't mean SQUAT. I watched that entire game and ran the tape back a couple of times afterwards and the team defense looked solid. Certainly nothing approaching YOUR criticism.

Obviously, we DO have some idea how the individual grading played out as Willie McGinest is no longer with the team. Why don't you do us all a favor and STFU since we are allowed to have opinions here that are backed up by fact. BTW, all your reviewing of the tape shows is your lack of knowledge of the game. But, of wait. That's right, you'll throw out there that you've been watching for 30 some-odd years and think that means something.

yeah..uh...SO WHAT? did you just write that to fill space and use letters?

Pats1 wrote that to attempt to put some perspective on the post. Obviously it was done in vain.

AGAIN, you must be slow witted or worse....SPECIFIC INSTANCES...EXACTLY WHICH PLAYS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?EXACTLY WHICH MISTAKES?

I think I caught you spouting off these unverifiable generalities and you didn't expect to be called on it. Do me and everyone else a favor...next time you feel this urge to be "THe Great Football Educator And World's Greatest Analyst", use this caveat..."in my opinion"....that's a lot easier to stomach

IMHO, Joker, you need to do everyone else a favor. You need to stop attacking people who show they have a modicum of football knowledge. Why do you do it? Do you have some inferiority complex or something? Unlike you, Pats1 and Box_Of_Rocks are very well respected posters on here who have shown to be very adept, as fans, at breaking down game tape and offering up what they see. They do it for the joy of doing so. And its taken as their opinions. But, many times, their opinions are dead on.

 

[PonyExpress]

I am optimistic about Beisel and feel comfortable with him starting at ILB. His weaknesses were (1) overpursuing, which I chalk up to lack of experience in the system, much as it took Wilfork a season and a half to properly 2-gap; and (2) being outmuscled, with the Tomlinson embarrassments being the worst example. Beisel has beefed up to 248 and this will help him. He was the primary ILB in the Jacksonville and Denver game, and held up reasonable well. I see no reason to think he won't have improved over last year. I am more concerned about OLB depth behind Vrabel and Colvin.

 

[DaBruinz]

My tone? Who are you, the tone police?

He STATED AS FACT that Bruschi played poorly in Denver...I asked for SPECIFIC PLAYS...he came back with more generalities based on opinion...do YOU have FACTS to back up HIS statements?

Since you want facts, how about you use them yourself. Pats1 did not say that Bruschi played poorly. Go back and actually READ what was said. Pats1 said that Bruschi didn't seem right and seemed to make some mistakes. Mistakes are a part of HUMAN NATURE. Pats1 didn't say that Bruschi stunk and shouldn't have been on the field. But, why use facts when you can use conjecture and assumptions. Right Joker?

 

[pats1]

Since you want facts, how about you use them yourself. Pats1 did not say that Bruschi played poorly. Go back and actually READ what was said. Pats1 said that Bruschi didn't seem right and seemed to make some mistakes. Mistakes are a part of HUMAN NATURE. Pats1 didn't say that Bruschi stunk and shouldn't have been on the field. But, why use facts when you can use conjecture and assumptions. Right Joker?

Thanks for the backup. Always appreciate it.

 

[DaBruinz]

Oh..and BTW..in the Denver game Bru had FOUR solo tackles..the EXACT same line as the "much better!!!!" Colvin. So right there he's basically CAUGHT LYING.

*ROFLMOA* For supposedly having 30+ years of football knowledge, you really don't show it. And, no, Pats1 wasn't caught lying. The one lying seems to be YOURSELF since you insist on putting words in Pats1's mouth.
Now, I can't find the game log on NFL.com, but here is the espn game log. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=260114007&quarter=0

I notice right away that Bruschi did not have 4 solo tackles as he and Wilfork took down Plummer after a 6 yard gain at 2nd and 5 from the Denver 41 in the 1st quarter. (4:54 remaing)

Bruschi had a solo tackle in the 2nd quarter on Mike Anderson, stopping him for a yard at 1st and 10 from the NE 31. (6:59 remaining)

In the 3rd quarter, Bruschi and Seymour took down Mike Anderson after a gain of 2 yards at 2nd and 7 from the Denver 25. (14:20 remaining)

In the 4th quarter, Bruschi had a solo tackle against Mike Anderson for 3 yards from the NE 15. (10:10 remaining)

None of Bruschi's tackles were for a loss.
According to the log, all of Colvin's tackles were solo and one was for no gain.

Vrabel had 7 tackles BUT only THREE solo...hardly "way better!!!!"..maybe because he had a sack, that caused Pat1 to jump to this intergalactically moronic conclusion that Bru was bad and Vrabel "way better!!!" in that game.

Or, maybe Pats1 has a modicum of football sense, is pretty good at breaking down tape and has earned the respect of people on here not to get attacked by someone who hasn't proven they know ANYTHING.

The point is, by both STATISTICS and VIEWING, the defense...Colvin, Bru,Vrabel and Willie...played the way they were supposed to as a unit. Nobody "played way better!!!!" than another. That is what is called a presumptive LIE.

You don't like MY TONE?? What about his thinly veiled implication that Bruschi wasn't as good as he was before the stroke...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where he's trying to go in the future with this. And I find THAT repugnant.

First off, if you think that Bruschi was as good last year as he had been prior to his stroke, you truly don't know anything about football. Bruschi wasn't as good last year. Maybe it was the stroke. Maybe its age. I don't know.

However, what thinly veiled implication are you referring to? The fact that Bruschi might not be here after his contract is up? That's reality man. That's the NFL. If you don't like it, that's just too damn bad.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm not overreacting...I'm reacting to your libels.If I was going toi give the impression of screamimg I'd use 8 point or 10 point fonts.If words printed on a style sheet affect your ears, seek help from a psychiatrist.

[/quote]

Yes, you are over-reacting and making a ton of assumptions. And, since your Netiquette is lacking, typing in all caps is the equivalent of screaming.

hundreds of MB's of game tape???to what...show Bruschi miss a tackle?...more on THIS further down...

You asked for proof. That's what it would take.

Uh....this statement is just plain nutty . Colvin made four tackles playing the outside,Bruschi made four inside in the Denver game.Bruschi didn't play the Jax game, calf injury...guess anything Colvin did in that game HAD to be better than what Bruschi did.

The number of tackles doesn't matter. Its the QUALITY of the play that matters. That a differentiation you don't seem to be able to make.

so....you see the defensive signal caller yelling at the rookie CB who has just taken over a starting spot and the reason eludes you? Hobbs out of position for the D called perhaps? Hmmmmm? Or are we to assume that the all pro linebacker is at fault for trying to correct a rookie's technique? Again, this an example of extreme bias used by you against Bruschi....you place all the responsibility for contain on a Plummer scramble on one player. Craziness.

Hobbs hadn't JUST taken over the starting spot. He'd been there for 9 games. Bruschi's responsibility is supposed to be aligning the Linebackers, NOT the corners. Also, if Bruschi is trying to yell at Hobbs DURING a play and is not focused on his job, then yes, it is Bruschi's fault. He IS human and does make mistakes, you know.

There is absolutely NO bias on the part of Pats1. What there is here is a lack of understanding on your part. You seem to be like the guy MIDGAR over on the ESPN web board. If you criticize Brady one iota, he goes off. And that is what you are doing here.

Nevermind that the Denver O calls plays to succeed, and that teams WILL hit plays during the game, what exactly is this supposed to prove about Bruschi supposedly having a bad game? He's supposed to cover the 4.3 speed of Smith on a quick slant? Hobbs is supposed to have Smith in front of him with Bruschi underneath on any slant. The fact that Hobbs ran into Bruschi only shows that HE,Hobbs, used the wrong technique. Now it's obvious YOU would like everyone to think that the All Pro veteran was at fault to further buttress your flawed argument , but I think I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to Bruschi here.

Rod Smith doesn't have 4.3 speed. But, you are so used to not using facts, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Now, I think you need to check your attitude at the door because its plain you don't know as much as you claim to. You are so quick to blame Hobbs, yet neither you nor I know what the secondary coverage was supposed to be.. I don't remember the play, but if Hobbs was lined up on the inside of Smith and Smith performed a quick slant, it would be very easy for Hobbs to end up in coverage underneath Smith and run into Bruschi if Bruschi was trying to do too much and was not focused on his own coverage. And, IF that is the case, then, yes, the blame falls onto Bruschi.

Not sure where you going with THIS....you try to use a crossing pattern in a completely different defensive set to illustrate your argument that Bruschi misplayed a quick slant? This is ridiculous.

How do you know it was a completely different defense? I think that Pats1 is smarter than to try and compare two different defenses.

Now it is quite obvious you have an agenda re: Tedy Bruschi...it is also quite obvious that you crave acknowledgement for your football knowledge...but the two are in direct opposition to one another. I don't know why you went to such lengths to denigrate the play of Bruschi...perhaps you are the type of person that sees another human being who has had serious medical issues as damaged goods, and somebody to be denigrated and degraded by any skewed logic available to you.

What is quite obvious is that you don't know wtf you are talking about and are conintuing to make ludicrous assumptions about people you don't know. You insist on lying and making things up. No where did Pats1 go to great lengths to denigrate Bruschi. That is just absurdity on your part. If you think that Bruschi played a great game in Denver, you are one of a select few.

Or perhaps you are one of these Uber-Fantasy Football geniuses who look at a Bruschi and see "too short, too weak, too slow,damaged goods...I would upgrade this position if I were coach of the Patriots"....well, if that's the case, I feel sorry for you.I want to close by posting the opinions of the Denver Bronco players about this man that you so casually throw under the bus....

No where has Pats1 ever said the stupidity your posting. Pats1 didn't throw Bruschi under the bus. And it doesn't matter what the Broncos players said BEFORE the game.

 

[pats1]

*ROFLMOA* For supposedly having 30+ years of football knowledge, you really don't show it. And, no, Pats1 wasn't caught lying. The one lying seems to be YOURSELF since you insist on putting words in Pats1's mouth.
Now, I can't find the game log on NFL.com, but here is the espn game log. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=260114007&quarter=0

I notice right away that Bruschi did not have 4 solo tackles as he and Wilfork took down Plummer after a 6 yard gain at 2nd and 5 from the Denver 41 in the 1st quarter. (4:54 remaing)

Bruschi had a solo tackle in the 2nd quarter on Mike Anderson, stopping him for a yard at 1st and 10 from the NE 31. (6:59 remaining)

In the 3rd quarter, Bruschi and Seymour took down Mike Anderson after a gain of 2 yards at 2nd and 7 from the Denver 25. (14:20 remaining)

In the 4th quarter, Bruschi had a solo tackle against Mike Anderson for 3 yards from the NE 15. (10:10 remaining)

None of Bruschi's tackles were for a loss.
According to the log, all of Colvin's tackles were solo and one was for no gain.

I think ESPN gets their log from the NFL, so this one would probably be considered official:

http://nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20060114_NE@DEN

The play with Wilfork and Bruschi was actually the scramble from Plummer I thought had gone for 16 yards (only went for 6, but for a first down). That would be the play where Bruschi was communicating with Hobbs while Plummer scrambled.

Here's my breakdown of it:

2nd and 5 Den 41

Result: Scramble, Plummer, up the middle, play action, 6 yds.

Offense: 3 WR, 2 left, 1 right, TE down off RT, Bell lone RB.

Defense: 3-4, Colvin and Hobbs pressure coverage on the slot WR left, Hawkins 5 yards off the RWR, Wilson on the fringes of the box talking to Bruschi at the snap

Blocking:

Seymour is able to beat the LG outside when Colvin blitzes inside on the LT, lowering his shoulder into the right side of the LG, allowing Seymour to seize the opportunity with a disoriented blocker to beat the edge, but the LT is able to push Seymour enough behind Plummer that there can’t be a sack, but there is a scramble

Wilfork can’t get around the C and RG but holds his ground, breaking off the C’s block and in part forcing Plummer’s slide, albeit for a first down

Warren starts to swim his way around the RT but Plummer scrambles because of other penetration

Colvin blitzes inside but is pushed from behind by the LG across Plummer’s face, and in accord with Seymour’s penetration behind Plummer forces the scramble

Coverage:

Vrabel shadows Bell’s play action and subsequent route underneath, drawing Vrabel away from the scramble

Bruschi spies Plummer in a zone but was a tad too deep, not able to force a slide quickly enough to prevent a first down

McGinest does a stare-down with the stationary TE before dropping off in a short zone behind the TE’s standing nothingness, breaking off on the scramble

Hobbs follows the slot WR’s deep route

Samuel does his customary opening of the body to the field, staying a few yards ahead of his man

Analysis:

The Bronco LG Hamilton and LT Lepsis did a great job of recovering from Patriot penetration by shoving Seymour and Colvin away from Plummer. Bruschi was caught off guard from a pretty quick Bronco snap, as he was making adjustments with Hobbs when the quick count came. Then, Bruschi repeatedly looked to his right while waving his arm towards the line, at possibly Hobbs’ single coverage and skirmish with the slot WR downfield. When he turned back to the play for about the third time, he noticed Plummer’s scramble but couldn’t stop the slide in time.

 

[DaBruinz]

Wow it always makes me think twice when someone breaks down posts in this manner..
But what I've taken from your post:

1. I agree with all 3 problems (can he over come them?)
2. D. Pee's has good experience in college but this is his first in the pro's as DC. Steve Spurrier had great success in college, never translated to pro's. You just never know. My statement was he hasn't shown it at this position yet.
3. See your point about taking time. And I will definitely AGREE with you on that. Maybe he was thinking to much and caused him to react instead of being proactive..
4. Actually seeing a game in person, you get to see A LOT more than on TV. Never mind that fact i have TIVO and would rewatch it during the week
Again, I like you am not a pro but someone said Hawkins picked up the conversion to Saftey in no time. Beisel got worse and played less as the time went on..

Being objective, The pats lack depth at the LB position. If he could turn around his play from last year, it would benefit the Patriots down the road.
I just won't be holding my breath..

McSully - Beisel did not get worse as time went on. Yes, he played less because Bruschi was back and Beisel is being groomed for Bruschi's position.

The change from a CB spot to a safety spot is a significantly different than moving from DE to ILB. Tedy Bruschi has attested to how difficult it was for him to make the switch inside after spending the time at OLB.

Now, about Dean Pees. You mentioned Steve Spurrier not being able to make the switch. Correct me if I am wrong, but Spurrier went from College HC to Pro HC. That is different than going from College HC and DC to Pro DC after 2 years as a Pro LB coach. I think that Pees will actually be better than Mangini as a DC, possibly even this year. I don't believe that Pees has any HC aspirations, but who knows.