Beisel and the new LBs coach...

[pats1]

Here's a quick video of the play in question to draw your own conclusions:

http://rapidshare.de/files/21729765/Plummer_scramble.avi.html

And here's the no gain tackle by Colvin that DaBruinz mentioned:

http://rapidshare.de/files/21729429/Colvin_tackle.avi.html

(Scroll down and select the free option. It's a small file (~1 MB). Just enter the code it gives you.)

(Your speakers don't deceive you. I didn't record the sound to cut down on the file size. It's also heavily compressed.)

The reason for Colvin pointing and then doing the false start sign after the play is because the FB looked to have jumped a split second early.

Here's the play I mentioned with Rod Smith and the crossing route. It's really tough to tell what happened because of the camera angles:

http://rapidshare.de/files/21730399/Disputed_Bruschi_play_compressed.avi.html

 

[mcsully]

McSully - Beisel did not get worse as time went on. Yes, he played less because Bruschi was back and Beisel is being groomed for Bruschi's position.

The change from a CB spot to a safety spot is a significantly different than moving from DE to ILB. Tedy Bruschi has attested to how difficult it was for him to make the switch inside after spending the time at OLB.

Now, about Dean Pees. You mentioned Steve Spurrier not being able to make the switch. Correct me if I am wrong, but Spurrier went from College HC to Pro HC. That is different than going from College HC and DC to Pro DC after 2 years as a Pro LB coach. I think that Pees will actually be better than Mangini as a DC, possibly even this year. I don't believe that Pees has any HC aspirations, but who knows.

HOLY COW BATMAN You CRAZY

My comparison was between CB/Safety vs MLB/ILB (using your quote of Beisel starting "X" amt of games for the cheifs). ANd yea, DE to ILB is a big difference, but Beisel wasn't a DE.

Pees better than Mangini.. Well I wasn't a big fan of him early in the season (like others). Again my point of HC and DC is not the difference in positions but that both men had solid foundations in College but Spurrier flopped in the pro's at HC. Who knows what PEE's will be.. The bottom line is one made the transformation and we hope Pees will.. (that is for another thread )

 

[mcsully]

McSully - Beisel did not get worse as time went on. Yes, he played less because Bruschi was back and Beisel is being groomed for Bruschi's position.

He did get worse.. If he got better than he would have been of the field more or even activated.. Look at the stats.. HE didn't on the field 3-4 games at the end of the year.. If you are getting better and our SPECIAL TEAMS wasn't that great, he would have played more..
How can you not say he didn't get worse? Pats rotate LBers, they really didn't do that much and when they did last year Beisel wasn't part of the mix, ESPECIALLY @ THE END.
I'm not saying only with my "KEEN" observation EYE, that Beisel got worse but by the coaches decision to knock him down the depth chart and not activate him towards the end makes me belive not only with my EYES but the coaches decisions..

 

[mcsully]

Hey I'm willing to back up my opinion with a challenge here. Give me a bet. If you believe Beisel can start and be a player on this team then put your AVATAR up for a challenge. If I win, you have to put up a predetermined picture for the entire next off season.

If I'm wrong, then I'll do the same

 

[Joker]

I never once referred to YOU in this discussion, daBruinz...not sure why you are going off on me...maybe Pats1 is your best friend or whatever

the stats I posted are directly from NFL.com...you got a problem with them take it up with NFL.com

the fact of the matter is that the Patriots defense played well that day and Bruschi played well in the scheme for the most part...certainly not so noticeably poor as to warrant the picayune warts Pats 1 brought up.

Pats 1 used Bruschi in a 3/4 aligment and Smith's slant counterposed to Chad in a 3-3-5 and his reaction to a WR on a crossing pattern...apples and oranges...but if you can't see the difference, well , that's on you. Pats1 also stated as FACT, not opined, that Colvin outplayed Bruschi in the playoffs...I notice you didn't bother to explain THIS, since Bruschi didn't play against Jax and had the exact same stat line as Colvin in the Denver game. That's HIS opinion....am I not allowed to disagree in "DaBruinz World" when I read a post presented as fact that is not based on the verifiable game stats? Interesting....so when Pats 1 uses his opinion based on faulty information and I use the verifiable game stats as a rebuttal, I'm full of crap and he's "the knowledgeable one". Great. I'll remember that little nugget of pretzel logic.

oh yeah, almost forgot, I made a mistake referring to Rod Smith as having 4.3 speed, that's Lelie...sorry you are so offended by that faux pas...I can understand why you would think that Bruschi should have easily covered Denver's NUMBER ONE WR and perrenial all pro.

 

[bucky]

HOLY COW BATMAN You CRAZY

My comparison was between CB/Safety vs MLB/ILB (using your quote of Beisel starting "X" amt of games for the cheifs). ANd yea, DE to ILB is a big difference, but Beisel wasn't a DE.

There's 1 thing about Monty playing in our system that I haven't seen mentioned before - the keys the ILB has to make. Biesel mentioned that in the Chiefs' system, he typically made the read and then filled a hole. Most often in these systems, the LBs key on the backs and then quickly fill the corresponding frontside or backside hole.

Although I don't have any confirmation of this, I'm pretty sure that in the Patriots' base D, the ILBs key off the OL. There is a pretty large number of variations that an ILB can be blocked - drive blocked by the G, combo block with the C or the T, zone blocking, iso by the FB, block down by the stong side TE, pulling backside G or C. Each of these has to be played in a slightly different way and distinguishing between some of these blocking patterns can get rather tricky. Having played DE for his entire college career and keying off the backs in KC, I wouldn't be surprised if last year was the first time he ever had to do this. And because this is the NFL, the slightest error in position or technique is enough to get your butt kicked - or at least make it look that way. I think it's just a matter of experience for Biesel before he gets it. And that is the single biggest reason why I think he'll be just fine next year.

 

[spacecrime]

Isn't this a forum? I'm open for other people's opinions and trying to determine why they see what they see. I've watched the games, gone to them and even looked at the mans stats.
Maybe it won't change the world and it really doesn't matter, but kinda the whole point of a forum with threads is to discuss your view point.
My view point is he has never shown anything in his time spent with us and if you back track, even in K.C. he didn't how anything.

The continued replies of now backing of facts or "doesn't matter" shows that someone with a high post really has nothing much to say except "Tom Brady is awesome".. over and over..

Of course it is a forum, a place to post your views. My response, which again I failed to make clear (not too good at non face-to-face communication, evidently) was to your comment for us to convince your of what we think. Why? Think what you want. What doesn't matter is if we convince you or not. Our opinion is not going to change just because we don't bohter to try to convinve you.

Opinions and thoughts have been posted. Agree or disagree. It really doens't matter whether anyone convinces you or not.

Hope this clears up my post

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

ANd yea, DE to ILB is a big difference, but Beisel wasn't a DE.

Ummm, yes he was. RDE @ Kansas State, and saw spot duty as a DE in his first year with the Cheifs before begining to transition to LB the following year.

 

[mcsully]

Ummm, yes he was. RDE @ Kansas State, and saw spot duty as a DE in his first year with the Cheifs before begining to transition to LB the following year.

I should have been more clear.. Referring to his Pro days, not college..

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

I should have been more clear.. Referring to his Pro days, not college..

Even still, Beisel began as a DE with the Chiefs, and was in the process of converting from DE to a LB in KC's scheme, which is very different than an LB in the Patriots scheme. Vermeil gave the impression that he was close, but not quite done with the process yet at the time we picked him up. Given the differences between the way the positions are utilized, and responsibilites assigned in the two schemes, I think it's safe to say that figuratively, Besiel's conversion from DE to LB had to take a few steps backwards in our system. Know what I'm sayin'?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Yo Bucky, I've been trying to learn the Pats assignments for years and unless we get more factual information, it's almost impossible or at the very least extremely difficult.

However I think I can say with reasonable accuracy that whichever ILB is lined up on the strong side of the opposing offense, reads the TE first.

This next part is just a theory, I know it's going to sound bizarre, but it looks like the first read for the weakside ILB is our DL. (Because our DL reacts differently if the play is a pass or run.) Based on that read, he knows whether he needs to fill, blitz or cover.

Back to Beisel:

First I am not a Beisel fan. To me he doesn't have the instincts to play the position and he lacks functional football strength.
In additionI found this next bit very thought provoking. On the ESPN insider page Len P. reports that the Pats coaches are high on Claridge and Roach.
Why does that get out Foxboro? Are the Pats coaches laying some pipe to prepare us for something? If both these guys are doing well and we already have Bruschi, Gardner, Izzo and Davis at ILB, who is the odd man out.
To me this says Beisel is on notice. If they don't see a leap in improvement in TC this year, they blow up Beisel and go with the kids.

 

[mcsully]

Even still, Beisel began as a DE with the Chiefs, and was in the process of converting from DE to a LB in KC's scheme, which is very different than an LB in the Patriots scheme. Vermeil gave the impression that he was close, but not quite done with the process yet at the time we picked him up. Given the differences between the way the positions are utilized, and responsibilites assigned in the two schemes, I think it's safe to say that figuratively, Besiel's conversion from DE to LB had to take a few steps backwards in our system. Know what I'm sayin'?

I can't find any stats and since I never watched him at that time, he didn't play DE in the pro's. He was converted. That point yes, position changes are tough... I've seen posts and responses saying "give him a year", "he is athletic", "bruci took time to make the jump".. this and that..
Bottom line on my point of view and actually Steve Nelson said this yesterday. When you have the opprotunity to start, YOU NEED TO MAKE AN IMPACT AND DIFFERENCE.. Beisel hasn't..