Backup QBs - Hoyer VS Mallet

[Ivan]

Not at all, I just don't see a fit. And as for Mirer over Bledsoe...that's really a nonsensical analogy because Bledsoe couldn't make it here...and over time anywhere. Although depending on how you define making it (and empty yardage and stats isn't my definition - which also probably explains my aversion to fantasy football...).

1) You may see no fit but Belichik does, that's why he picked him.

2)Bledsoe is in the Patriots HOF and a huge reason they stayed in NE at all, that's a really bizarre definition of a player "not making it here..."

 

[Deus Irae]

So, basically, I read through this entire thread to find the only substantive criticism of Mallett is that he looked subpar in preseason.

That said, it's Hoyer > Mallett for now. Hopefully that will flip over the next year or two.

The "substantive" criticism of Mallet's been done before. All the NFL stuff we have is from one preseason, so I'm not sure what else you're expecting. It's not as if the "pro" Mallet contingent have anything more on their side of the argument, because there IS nothing more.

 

[Ivan]

So, basically, I read through this entire thread to find the only substantive criticism of Mallett is that he looked subpar in preseason.

That said, it's Hoyer > Mallett for now. Hopefully that will flip over the next year or two.

And that pre-season came with no offseason program at all. Mallett has had no chance at all yet to show what he can or cannot do and judging him off last years pre-season with no offseason program is stupid.

 

[JackBauer]

The "substantive" criticism of Mallet's been done before. All the NFL stuff we have is from one preseason, so I'm not sure what else you're expecting. It's not as if the "pro" Mallet contingent have anything more on their side of the argument, because there IS nothing more.

I'd venture to guess you probably know what I was referring to with that comment.

To wit, certain criticisms being levied without much (read: any) evidence to support them.

 

[Deus Irae]

1) You may see no fit but Belichik does, that's why he picked him.

Belichick picked O'Connell. Belichick picked Klingsbury. Belichick picked Davey.


How'd those work out?

 

[Deus Irae]

I'd venture to guess you probably know what I was referring to with that comment.

I'd venture to guess you understood my rebuttal.

 

[Ivan]

Belichick picked O'Connell. Belichick picked Klingsbury. Belichick picked Davey.


How'd those work out?

He also picked Brady and cassel, how did those work out.

The point is that Belichik obviously thought Mallett was a good choice or he wouldn't have taken him. Unless like Mo you believe Belichik didn't believe he could work out here so he used a third rounder on him.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Belichick picked O'Connell. Belichick picked Klingsbury. Belichick picked Davey.


How'd those work out?

Exactly, Deus. Just like BB picked Brady and Cassel. There is a precedent that this team can develop a QB with a particular physical and mental makeup and a believed-upside, be immersed into the program and go on to be a functional NFL-caliber QB.

 

[Ivan]

Belichick picked O'Connell. Belichick picked Klingsbury. Belichick picked Davey.


How'd those work out?

I have to give you big credit Deus, you can pick players much better with 5 years hindsight than Belichik can during the draft. That's an incredible ability you have, you should shop your 100 accuracy rate to NFL teams they will no doubt jump all over it.

BIG PROPS

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Mallet was not good in the preseason, and he didn't show much chance of being good in the future, from what I saw. I hope I'm wrong, but I just see another wasted draft pick.

wow... jump to conclusions much? You must have wanted Matt Cassel run out of the league after some of his sinky performances in the 2008 preseason. A few series, without an offseason, without a full training camp, in a meaningless game in which for the most part he was playing with players who were cut...

To pull out the "wasted draft pick" line is just crazy and bizarre.

 

[Ivan]

wow... jump to conclusions much? You must have wanted Matt Cassell run out of the league after some of his sinky performances in the 2008 preseason. A few series, without an offseason, without a full training camp, in a meaningless game in which for the most part he was playing with players who were cut...

To pull out the "wasted draft pick" line is just crazy and bizarre.

Deus calls it " just being objective..."

 

[Deus Irae]

He also picked Brady and cassel, how did those work out.

The point is that Belichik obviously thought Mallett was a good choice or he wouldn't have taken him. Unless like Mo you believe Belichik didn't believe he could work out here so he used a third rounder on him.

1.) The Patriots could have taken a flier for all you and I know. It wouldn't be the first time this group has done it, as we know. The "Obviously" is nothing of the kind.

2.) I can't see Mo's posts, so I have no idea what he believes. We do know that BB is willing to take fliers on players when he's got no other real choice. We saw that with the 2007 picks.

3.) Brady and Cassel don't explain Klingsbury, Davey and O'Connell away.


Look, we know that BB was making terrible picks from 2006-2008 and that 2009 wasn't anything like we'd originally thought, either. We know that he's improved since, with the 2010 draft, but we sure as hell don't know that 2010 was perfect, and we don't have any idea at all what Mallet can do at the NFL level. The best we can do is take his college performances and combine them with the preseason work we saw.

Maybe you saw something I didn't, and rookies can certainly improve, but I haven't yet seen anything that's told me the kid is going to be a quality starter in the NFL.

 

[Deus Irae]

I have to give you big credit Deus, you can pick players much better with 5 years hindsight than Belichik can during the draft. That's an incredible ability you have, you should shop your 100 accuracy rate to NFL teams they will no doubt jump all over it.

BIG PROPS

5 years hindsight?

My posts opposing O'Connell and Mallet from the beginning are on record in the archives. Nothing 5 years about them.

And the "shop..." stuff is just idiocy. But you know that already.

 

[Deus Irae]

wow... jump to conclusions much? You must have wanted Matt Cassel run out of the league after some of his sinky performances in the 2008 preseason.

I was one of the few defenders of Cassel, actually.

A few series, without an offseason, without a full training camp, in a meaningless game in which for the most part he was playing with players who were cut...

Yes, I evaluate players based upon what I see and read. It's a foreign concept to those who evaluate players based upon whether or not the Patriots drafted them, but it's been known to have at least some small percentage of success.

To pull out the "wasted draft pick" line is just crazy and bizarre.

Unneeded player drafted when the team had much more important positional needs and who doesn't seem to be in the team's plans beyond "backup we hope is never needed" or in a position to be of significant help via trade = wasted draft pick

If you think that's crazy or bizarre, well, that's an interesting take on your part.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I haven't yet seen anything that's told me the kid is going to be a quality starter in the NFL.

I would agree with that. That's a whole world of difference from saying that it looks like it could well be a wasted draft pick.

It neither looks like a good pick or a wasted pick, we simply have no idea.

We can infer that Belichick has been at least somewhat pleased with his effort so far, in that he has said so in response to questions, and Mallett was credited for good practice work in preparation for Denver last time,

and that the rumors about Mallett having off-the-field issues that would hamper his ceiling have not manifested themselves, at least this year, in any police blotters or team discipline that we know about.

we have little to go on, so stating that he is some great talent is every bit as irresponsible, irrational, and bizarre as saying that he is likely a wasted draft pick.

 

[Deus Irae]

I would agree with that. That's a whole world of difference from saying that it looks like it could well be a wasted draft pick.

No, it's not. Spending that pick on a QB who's not going to be a quality starter when the team had so many other problem areas to address is wasting a pick.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Disclosure: Didn't and still don't like the Mallett pick. I find it hard to believe that well within the top 100 college players BB couldn't have taken a flyer on a more needed position CB safety LB center or guard that could have contended for the 53 for depth and upside.

As to the thread topic, what we know is that Hoyer had the staff's confidence as Brady's #2 and has looked poised in the pocket showing none of the foolishness that got KOC a fast ticket out of here. We also saw Hoyer put on the field and successfully as instructed complete the record setting pass to Gronk. Nice throw.

Meanwhile the Hammer has not even had the benefit of one rookie pre-season. Given how much TFB said he benefitted from a full rookie camp plus the subsequent off season, rational minds must conclude that based on the little information we and even the coaches have, Hoyer is The One.

 

[Ivan]

1.) The Patriots could have taken a flier for all you and I know. It wouldn't be the first time this group has done it, as we know. The "Obviously" is nothing of the kind.

2.) I can't see Mo's posts, so I have no idea what he believes. We do know that BB is willing to take fliers on players when he's got no other real choice. We saw that with the 2007 picks.

3.) Brady and Cassel don't explain Klingsbury, Davey and O'Connell away.


Look, we know that BB was making terrible picks from 2006-2008 and that 2009 wasn't anything like we'd originally thought, either. We know that he's improved since, with the 2010 draft, but we sure as hell don't know that 2010 was perfect, and we don't have any idea at all what Mallet can do at the NFL level. The best we can do is take his college performances and combine them with the preseason work we saw.

Maybe you saw something I didn't, and rookies can certainly improve, but I haven't yet seen anything that's told me the kid is going to be a quality starter in the NFL.

1) You responded to my response to Mo's post that Mallet isn't a "fit here."



2) It was the 3rd round, clearly he had many choices yet felt Mallet was the best pick.

3) Drafting is as imprecise a science as there is, and even the best at it miss all the time. Belichik is really good at it despite his misses and the patriots remain at the top of the league year after year in large part because of that.

4) I haven't come to any conclusion at all on Mallett because there is nothing yet to judge him on, and i really don't think as fans we will ever have the ability to judge him unless Brady goes down for an extended time in the regular season and Mallett plays against NFL teams in real games. Only the coaching staff knows if he works hard, is improving from week to week and season to season, and if he can step up when it really matters. When they reach the conclusion he isn't doing those things he will be released as the others have been, if he stays then he must be doing pretty well because Belichik cuts ties with them when they aren't.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

No, it's not. Spending that pick on a QB who's not going to be a quality starter when the team had so many other problem areas to address is wasting a pick.

Oh, my bad... I forgot that you have the crystal ball and know this to be true. So silly of me!

 

[Ivan]

No, it's not. Spending that pick on a QB who's not going to be a quality starter when the team had so many other problem areas to address is wasting a pick.

How the hell do you know he won't be a quality starter?

OMG, it's Nostradeaus


Apparently you believe in the Colts strategy of going without a viable back-up.