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Backup QBs - Hoyer VS Mallet


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makes for good bathroom reading, but this claim is about as baseless as it can get....really

there were guys available that the pats could have used at that point, so taking a chance on a 'potential attitude problem' at that point doesn't make any sense at all. they had him in, they knew WHO they were getting.

I think when your franchise QB gets to a certain age, you need to have the possibility of the 'next answer' on your roster. hoyer is a career backup, period. he is what friesz was in 2000

Of course they had him in. Why wouldn't they? Hes a superior talent and good kid who produced in college. The question was maturity. I can guarantee you that there were players BB considered for that slot and even entertained trading it. He decided to draft Mallett for the reasons I mentioned. My intent was not to paint Mallett as some kind of consolation prize but rather BB rolling the dice on drafting a potentially special player who had some growing up to do.
 
so, is this what mallett lacks? can you point me towards the proof?

I never said Mallett didnt love football. My comment was specifically looking at reasons why players aren't sucessful and something that this organization looks for in a player.

did you guys have any clue at all as to what brady's love for the game was in 2000 at the time?

No but I think it's well documented that TB loves football, winning, being a QB and everything about it.
 
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I agree, although I don't think love of the game is the issue as much as adaptability and drive to become or remain worthy to play it at this level vs. entitlement and a core belief in their inherent talent to carry the day (provided everyone else is as talented or finds a way to perform up to their level). Drew loved playing football. Most gunslingers do. What they don't love is working at it, because they don't see why they should have to. Their talent gets them here, often their arm strength..., and they don't believe they should have to do much more than show up on Sundays and just sling it. The game and success came naturally to them in HS and college and they see no reason why it won't be the same at the next level. Entitlement is their issue. When they fail in their mind it is likely the result of others not performing well enough... Favre was the epitome of the entitled QB. The game had to be fun for him and if you made him think or study film (which gave him a headache) or follow some script or come to off season workouts or training camp, then you were taking the fun out of it. Drew wasn't that self absorbed. But while he went through all the motions once the bell rang he was going to rely on his own talent and perceived instincts over scheme and just sling it. I believe it was a conscious choice. Sometimes though it's unconscious, guys simply cannot become something they never were...which is cerebral students of the game. Manning was the exception to the entitled talent rule because once he determined (around 2002 or 2003) his talent alone or talent alone around him wasn't going to get him where he wanted to be he became almost more cerebrial than talented (he threw some wobblers in between the lasers...but more often than not exactly where they should be).

That (bolded above by me) is the best articulation I've ever seen of what a lot of us have felt about Bledsoe without being able to put the words around it. The worst thing for Drew was that that became perceived by some as his "not caring." He did care; he just didn't feel he had to put in the work that a Brady or P. Manning knew/know they had/have to put in. When I look at his stats, better than the median or average of HOF QB's in almost every category, it's really quite disappointing that he didn't/couldn't go that extra mile.

The interesting subtext to that point is that Bledsoe clearly didn't feel that Brady was a threat to the extent that he would have to take his game to the next level to fend him off in 2000/2001.

This goes way OT, but I also think that what you say of Bledsoe applies in some ways to Peyton's baby brother a bit as well. I've watched him closely, living in New York city for his entire NFL career; at times, Eli seems disinterested and loses focus (I've actually compared him to Phil Mickelson, whose talent is so great that he tries dumb things because he can't imagine not making them work). E. Manning was rescued by a Ref who didn't blow his whistle fast enough ("In the Grasp") and a "one-in-a-million" catch or people wouldn't say the nice things about him that they do; but he just doesn't seem to think that the normal rules apply to him. He's definitely hungry now and feels he has something to prove so the next week or two will be interesting.
 
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so, is this what mallett lacks? can you point me towards the proof?

did you guys have any clue at all as to what brady's love for the game was in 2000 at the time?

Yeah, what he went through at Michigan for 4 years and why he chose Michigan and then chose not to give up when the going got beyond tough but to fight like hell for the simple chance to persevere and prove all his critics wrong...only to gladly accept and embrace the challenge to do the same at the next level...
 
Tebow obviously has NFL arm strength........the problem is with his mechanics as it takes forever for him to get rigd of the ball. something that can get better with time.



The release is part of having an elite arm. Timing pattern depends on getting the throw out ON TIME, long passes not so much. Tebow showed a strong arm yesterday, not an elite NFL arm, a la A Rodgers for example.
 
No but I think it's well documented that TB loves football, winning, being a QB and everything about it.

right.......after the fact......anyone can do that

I believe the pats had Mallett rated as the best QB in the draft. I think I read that somewhere.

I also believe that Mallett's problems occurred during the year he was ineligible to play. His issues could have had something to do with the fact that he could not stand NOT playing.
 
so, is this what mallett lacks? can you point me towards the proof?

did you guys have any clue at all as to what brady's love for the game was in 2000 at the time?

Agree with your first statement. Obviously, we can't know what's in the mind or gut of a guy who hasn't said a word to the media. It's silly to suggest otherwise.

Disagree on the second. Brady came to the Pats with a chip on his shoulder the size of Plymouth Rock. We have the evidence of his walking up to Kraft during his first few weeks in camp in 2000 and introducing himself, "I'm Tom Brady and I want you to know that I'm the best decision your organization has ever made." I think his hunger and desire were clear to all from the very beginning.
 
Check out Mallett's highlights against the jags:
Ryan Mallett 8-11-11 Pats vs Jags Preseason - YouTube

Mallet really did look great in this game.

Then again, so did Taylor Price.

Still his mechanics looked good, stepped into the throws, decent pocket presence and moved pretty well for a 6' 7" guy.

How hard he worked this season will tell the tale - Belichick promoted Brady from 4th to 2nd in one season. It's up to Mallet to show himself to be better than Hoyer regardless of what any of us think.
 
so, is this what mallett lacks? can you point me towards the proof?

did you guys have any clue at all as to what brady's love for the game was in 2000 at the time?

Have you read the scouting reports on Mallett? Now, scouts tend to be all over the place and one often sees the opposite of the others. But if you read all the scouting reports on Mallett a concensus seems to form that meshes with what I saw in just limited appearances this pre season. Can some of that be corrected with a full off season and another training camp with top flight NFL coaching? Possibly. Is some of it just inherent in him and uncorrectable? Possibly. Do a lot of QB's with similar issues achieve some level of success? I guess, depending on your definition of success. Would they achieve an acceptable level of success in this scheme and system? Not in my opinion.

Again, I don't hate Mallett. Just don't see him as a fit for this system. And I'm not sure he was even drafted to be that.
 
Yeah, what he went through at Michigan for 4 years and why he chose Michigan and then chose not to give up when the going got beyond tough but to fight like hell for the simple chance to persevere and prove all his critics wrong...only to gladly accept and embrace the challenge to do the same at the next level...

so its obvious you do not understand the conditions that caused mallett to leave michigan. he was done there anyway because Rodriguez's offense was not going to use him. brady would have also been gone under the same conditions. their next QB (denard robinson) is also counted on for being the leading rusher on the team, also.

any pocket passer was going to hit the road then rodriguez took over
 
Have you read the scouting reports on Mallett? Now, scouts tend to be all over the place and one often sees the opposite of the others. But if you read all the scouting reports on Mallett a concensus seems to form that meshes with what I saw in just limited appearances this pre season. Can some of that be corrected with a full off season and another training camp with top flight NFL coaching? Possibly. Is some of it just inherent in him and uncorrectable? Possibly. Do a lot of QB's with similar issues achieve some level of success? I guess, depending on your definition of success. Would they achieve an acceptable level of success in this scheme and system? Not in my opinion.

Again, I don't hate Mallett. Just don't see him as a fit for this system. And I'm not sure he was even drafted to be that.

I watched a fair share of SEC games including Mallett....I was familiar with his play.

to judge based on what you saw this past preseason would have had you saying that brady did not fit the system at that same time (preseason rookie).

so what is it about the system that does not fit mallett?
 
Agree with your first statement. Obviously, we can't know what's in the mind or gut of a guy who hasn't said a word to the media. It's silly to suggest otherwise.

Disagree on the second. Brady came to the Pats with a chip on his shoulder the size of Plymouth Rock. We have the evidence of his walking up to Kraft during his first few weeks in camp in 2000 and introducing himself, "I'm Tom Brady and I want you to know that I'm the best decision your organization has ever made." I think his hunger and desire were clear to all from the very beginning.

but you only learned about the chip on brady's shoulder AFTER the fact of his initial successes. brady was a non story until he became successful.
 
but you only learned about the chip on brady's shoulder AFTER the fact of his initial successes. brady was a non story until he became successful.

The point at issue isn't when the media trumpeted it; the point is whether there was evidence ten years ago of Brady's hunger and love of what he was doing. Kraft is the one who tells that story from the 2000 camp and, as far as I know, he started telling it right away.
 
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The point at issue isn't when the media trumpeted it; the point is whether there was evidence ten years ago of Brady's hunger and love of what he was doing. Kraft is the one who tells that story from the 2000 camp.

sure, but again......nobody was saying boo about brady in january 2001. in fact, the consensus was the week of bledsoes injury was that the pats were screwed. nobody was sitting there saying that this hardworking kids was going to elevate the pats. once the fairy tale was completed, then all of the stories that are relevant to the moment come to the surface.
 
but you only learned about the chip on brady's shoulder AFTER the fact of his initial successes. brady was a non story until he became successful.

Only if you weren't paying attention or had already written him off as nothing more than a potential backup at this level because of lack of elite measurables...like arm strength.

One of the things I always keep in mind when watching these developmental QB's perform here is are they doing what the coaches want them to (which isn't always what the fans want to see) or are they attempting to show the coaches what they can do. I saw the former in Cassel consistently right out of the gate, while I saw the latter in Guts and KOC (and Rohan for that matter). In limited viewing I saw Mallett being Mallett. To fans that looked good against JAX. But as the preseason progressed it looked less good...

As I have stated previously, we won't know more until we get to next pre season and see who the #2 and #3 are. But if I had to guess based on their performances and even demeanor to date, Hoyer isn't going anywhere and unless Mallett does I'm not sure where that leaves him.
 
Again, I don't hate Mallett. Just don't see him as a fit for this system. And I'm not sure he was even drafted to be that.



What specifically about him causes you to say : "Just don't see him as a fit for this system.".


I don't know if he is a fit or not. I do know he has elite physical tools, reportedly he is a film rat who spent hours with BB going over film before the draft.

MY opinion is that IF he has a work ethic to put in the time in the film room and practice hard and learn from the GOAT QB and coach he could be very special.

I am curious to see his progress or lack thereof in preseason next year.


I still haven't heard why he can't be a fit for this system or not become an elite nfl qb.
 
so its obvious you do not understand the conditions that caused mallett to leave michigan. he was done there anyway because Rodriguez's offense was not going to use him. brady would have also been gone under the same conditions. their next QB (denard robinson) is also counted on for being the leading rusher on the team, also.

any pocket passer was going to hit the road then rodriguez took over

Leaving an program because of a coaching change or a change in an offensive structure is one thing. Aikman did the same thing. He was at OU and Switzer sold him a bill of goods and he transferred to UCLA.

Leaving because your head coach doesn't think you can perform at a high-level in the current system because you know in your heart you know it is tailor made for your skills and are better is another.

No one is bashing Mallett. What we are questioning is how well he will do here.
 
sure, but again......nobody was saying boo about brady in january 2001. in fact, the consensus was the week of bledsoes injury was that the pats were screwed. nobody was sitting there saying that this hardworking kids was going to elevate the pats. once the fairy tale was completed, then all of the stories that are relevant to the moment come to the surface.

Oh, there were some who saw it. Felger did, back when he was a beat reporter and not a shock radio hack. And the concensus of vocal fans and mediots isn't worth much and paying attention to it is just silly. If you watch that Brady 6 program next week you will see him make Mooch question his draft decision, Giovani Carmazzi, whom Brady made look like a fools choice in their rookie season pre season matchup. And you will hear Bill state that Brady outperformed Bledsoe in camp the following preseason and the only reason he didn't become the starter as a result was lack of experience (although Bill is fudging a little on that being the only reason as there were about $100M more that entered the equation).
 
So, basically, I read through this entire thread to find the only substantive criticism of Mallett is that he looked subpar in preseason.

That said, it's Hoyer > Mallett for now. Hopefully that will flip over the next year or two.
 
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